PvP Tank v. Melee Dps - Survivability

Can we increase tank (warrior, paladin, gunbreaker, darkknight) survivability slightly in pvp while decreasing melee dps survivability slightly?

Feels a little unfair that some melee dps jobs have insane burst while being about as tanky if not more so than tanks. I understand that because of no role restrictions, every job needs to be more or less self-sufficient.

But removing damage modifiers for class roles and simply giving tanks more health doesn't really affect survivability as much as stuns, bubbles, damage reduction and escape actions - and some dps have stuns, bubbles, and escape actions in spades.

Which is fine... but can it be slightly reduced? Just a bit?

Just my two cents.

Increase WAR combat power? Are you insane?

The improvement would be between the other tanks and WAR. So you can bring WAR down and the other tanks up, that way there is more diversity. But you cant nerf all dps while improving WAR cause thats the tank you see 90% of the time, and its hard to kill already.

WAR needs to lose the AoE stun, DRG needs to lose their 50% damage mitigation. Nobody should have an AoE stun outside of LB, and DRG should not be that tanky. I'd turn the AoE stun on Primal Rend into an AoE heavy, and drop the Horrid Roar mitigation down to 25% so you're still tanky, and at worst you cancel out the increased damage taken from Life of the Dragon.

I think what they tried to do is make Tanks utility focused... Except, you know, WAR has more and better utility than any of the tanks for some god forsaken reason.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

WAR needs to lose the AoE stun, DRG needs to lose their 50% damage mitigation. Nobody should have an AoE stun outside of LB, and DRG should not be that tanky. I'd turn the AoE stun on Primal Rend into an AoE heavy, and drop the Horrid Roar mitigation down to 25% so you're still tanky, and at worst you cancel out the increased damage taken from Life of the Dragon.

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I feel like MNK is tankier than DRG, hell half the time im hitting MNK i feel like im leaning into a PLD

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

I feel like MNK is tankier than DRG, hell half the time im hitting MNK i feel like im leaning into a PLD

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I find MNKs more slippery than anything. Their only real defensive is Thunderclap, which only protects against 6000 potency if you aim at an enemy with it, and gives that shield to an ally if used on them. Compare that to DRG's Horrid Roar, which hits in an AoE around the DRG and every target hit does 50% less damage to the DRG for 10s. You can see there just how much tankier a DRG is in comparison.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I find MNKs more slippery than anything. Their only real defensive is Thunderclap, which only protects against 6000 potency if you aim at an enemy with it, and gives that shield to an ally if used on them. Compare that to DRG's Horrid Roar, which hits in an AoE around the DRG and every target hit does 50% less damage to the DRG for 10s. You can see there just how much tankier a DRG is in comparison.

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Maybe its because im a SMN and i make my best effort to stay the HELL away from all melees all the time I might not experience that as frequently.

WAR is fine, like... if anything it needs a nerf. I wouldn't touch survivibility as well... it's their role right? But the AoE stun every 15s definitely needs a nerf. Just making it ST stun + AoE heavy would be a massive rebalance.

DRK needs a small push, TBN is just too weak. 20s for an 8k shield isn't enough. CD should be reduced to 15s at the very least. Boosting the shield while increasing survivibility also make it at risk of not breaking, altough tbh even a 12k shield is far from being a hard thing to break.



PLD and GUN needs improvement in the survivibility department, altough GUN needs a massive rework...

PLD issue is that unlike WAR and DRK which have decent dmg, WAR being a big burster, and decent survivibilty, the PLD has neither. But it has an interesting and unique supportive skill in the form of Guardian. The issue is that this essentially makes PLD take double dmg in AoE situation making using guard almost mandatory with Guardian otherwise you'll just explode. A tank can already explode if being focused down, just double AoE dmg and you get a very squishy tank. While there's a plethorade of ways to buff PLD, my take would be something along those lines
- Guardian reduce damage taken from the redirected damage by 20~30%. This would allow PLD to effectively Protect without exploding
- Guardian CD is reduced to 20s but duration 8s as well. The issue is that 10s is a bit too long and unnecesssary, having more but shorter Guardians would be more useful. However dropping it to 15s/5s duration could make PLD too annoying to deal with if a good healer is present. So 20s+8s sound about right
- PLD needs an extra source of self healing. While it is fine that they have less selfheal than WAR because they bring healing support to the team as a debuff, They're currently too damn squishy. The obvious spell to add would be Clemency. A great combo would be Guardian >> Clemency (10s) 10k ST, 50% on PLD if used on an ally. This would fit well with the overall "protector" feel of the job. You Guardian someone and can then Chain a Clemency on them or yourself. You get the most healing from using it on someone else but if it's unnecessary you can galvanise yourself with an extra 10k heal.
- Phalanx CD should be reduced to 90s, at the very least. The immunity isn't what's great about that LB as you're probably not gonna use it just to save your ass but more to make your team survive some big aoe burst as -50% damage taken is no joke even if it is "only 10s" if well timed. But this is the Issue, because it is a 120s CD it is NEVER up when you need it. You won't be able to defend against a WHM burst beam, DRG dive, MCH snipe, WAR Zerk-no-guard, BLM DoT feast etc etc. It is also useless against NIN and SAM LB (except for the splash).
This LB has the same issue as BRD and AST LB, it is just too late to the party. You need Phalanx before/at the same time the ennemy teams get their burst so you can protect your team, not After everyone's dead to then hold on it until their next burst come back 60s later. (assuming no death delay on LB obviously). Reducing Phalanx to 90s (or even 60s tbh) would greatly compensate PLD lacks of damage and AoE CC while boosting their lacking survivibility and supporting healing capability with more acess to Blade of Faith combo for AoE application of Sacred Claim.

GUN : Oh boy... where to start...
well first I have to stay that the design and idea behind GUN Draw and Junction is good as it gives flexibility. However that flexibility depends on what's currently on your AoE team, is it an Issue? I don't know, it means you're more tanky when the enemy team has a tank or a healer which happens about 95% of the games. The great thing is that you can adapt depending on your need, too much support on your team? DPS. DRG LB's about to come, Nebula, etc etc... But that also means if you're facing 5 DPS you're as squishy as a range with a bit more hp because... well you have NO defensive CD unlike basically every single melee, including DRG and SAM.
Things that need to be adressed
Draw and Junction - CD should be reduced to 15s, this would enable more Burst Strike which they badly need to galvanise survivibility with Hypervelocity. This would also allow a switch of which spell you'd cast with Junctionned Cast.
Junctionned Cast - When using a specific role ability, we should get a buff than enhance the effect of other roles in order to promote the role swap of Draw and Junction. Assuming a team has 5DPS draw and junction should at the very least always be castable on self in order to alternate Tank/DPS CD as well allowing GUN to simply tank when there's no tank/heal the other side. This would also allow for a better role choosing before Gnashing Fang combo

CC should be added to the job, there are many ways to do it but that would be my take.
Burst Strike : 3sec stun added

Gnashing Fang -> Eye Gouge : Additional CC effect depending on the role selected. DPS - Heavy, Healer Silence, Tank Stun (3s)
Rough Divide should also apply a short duration heavy (2s) to make GUN chasing you a bit more of a threat and add some supportive aspect while chasing running targets.
Not sure if that would be enough, probably as GUN has a quite strong LB and decent DPS. The versatility of his CC would make it high skill cap but probably quite rewarding

More than anything they just need to fix the stun on Intervene, right now Paladin is missing two of it's three stuns!

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

I feel like MNK is tankier than DRG, hell half the time im hitting MNK i feel like im leaning into a PLD

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Not one bit, the MNK you were hitting must have been given some shields by the healer.

how about using an anticheat to stop the auto stun on certain moves a lot of players are using...