Is there any thought that goes into Sage using Kardion on themself?

Or are they just as stupid as I think they are? Is Kardion on themselves really the play?

Ive had multiple sages in plat that didnt even apply it the whole game *shrug*

Kardia'ing yourself can be the difference between you getting nuked while a dps ganks you and no one bothers to help you so yeah there's definitely a reason for it. I can't count how many times the rest of the party has just ignored that I'm behind our team getting mobbed lol.

Every DoT giving me a shield and dosis giving me heal and phlegma damage could be the difference between me dying or living. The other issue is if your target dies with Kardia kardia just disappears, so often if I see people repeatedly eating dirt I just stop trying to use it on them.

I normally try to hop around with targets since Kardia has no cooldown and be spammed easily, but when like the entire party is running off to go TeamDeathMatch while I'm the only one guarding the crystal, I'm definitely going to kardia myself lol.

To be honest with the new balancing sometimes it's the best play to make to avoid excess damage/stop dying especially if you don't have a tank.

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Originally Posted by benwithvees

Or are they just as stupid as I think they are? Is Kardion on themselves really the play?

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yes there's a reason.
- If your Kardia partner or yourself die, you have to reapply the kardia every time unlike in PvE.
- everyone has self heal + guard
- the healing from kardia is quite small, 2k per hit
- SGE has 48k HP and need the survivability from it's own kardia's shields

I will gladly put my kardia on the tank or a melee if they fix it and give a little bit more hp to SGE, but as of now, consider SGE to be a green dps.

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Originally Posted by Brownondorf

yes there's a reason.
- If your Kardia partner or yourself die, you have to reapply the kardia every time unlike in PvE.
.

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Is Kardia on a GCD then that breaks combos or something?

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Originally Posted by benwithvees

Is Kardia on a GCD then that breaks combos or something?

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I dont think it matters. WHM isnt a healer to help you, AST isnt a healer to help you, SGE isnt a healer to help, SCH isnt a healer to help you. The best way to approach these games is your survivability is 100% your own responsibility and noone elses regardless whos in the game. WHM is frankly a better BLM than BLM is and I view them as such when I load in.

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Originally Posted by benwithvees

Is Kardia on a GCD then that breaks combos or something?

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Kardia is spammable. The issue is that to swap targets and then use e dosis (when Eukrasia is a two charge cd not infinitely useable skill) and/or dosis requires extra time that makes most kardia toggling kinda pointless.

But like the other poster said you shouldn't expect a SGE or any healer to really heal you to keep you alive to begin with, but that's the issue. Some classes have crazy sustain and some have none. Hoping they fix that.

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Originally Posted by Qeilos

I dont think it matters. WHM isnt a healer to help you, AST isnt a healer to help you, SGE isnt a healer to help, SCH isnt a healer to help you. The best way to approach these games is your survivability is 100% your own responsibility and noone elses regardless whos in the game. WHM is frankly a better BLM than BLM is and I view them as such when I load in.

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WHM is definitely a healer to help, what? I understand you need to survive on your own but why are you queueing these utility roles if not to be utility? And how would that not matter? If Kardion is OGCD with 0 CD then that matters. If it isn't then i would see why it would be difficult to apply Kardion on others.

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Originally Posted by benwithvees

WHM is definitely a healer to help, what? I understand you need to survive on your own but why are you queueing these utility roles if not to be utility? And how would that not matter? If Kardion is OGCD with 0 CD then that matters. If it isn't then i would see why it would be difficult to apply Kardion on others.

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You just said that you understood that you need to survive on your own. That is what a sage is doing in CC by applying Kardion to themselves, unless they note that there is someone else around who will actually protect them and then it is worthwhile to put it on that person who is peeling or covering for them. Otherwise no, i would say it isn't going to be used as per PVE - it's better for the SGE to keep themselves up and not distract themselves throwing a relatively small heal in switching so they can use their better utility skills, or their not inconsiderable DPS, which is of more benefit.

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

You just said that you understood that you need to survive on your own. That is what a sage is doing in CC by applying Kardion to themselves, unless they note that there is someone else around who will actually protect them and then it is worthwhile to put it on that person who is peeling or covering for them. Otherwise no, i would say it isn't going to be used as per PVE - it's better for the SGE to keep themselves up and not distract themselves throwing a relatively small heal in switching so they can use their better utility skills, or their not inconsiderable DPS, which is of more benefit.

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So then what I'm gathering from this thread then is SGE is just bad and would rather have WHM or any other DPS that's not BLM

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Originally Posted by benwithvees

So then what I'm gathering from this thread then is SGE is just bad and would rather have WHM or any other DPS that's not BLM

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SGE is not bad. It's not great either, it's almost balanced except for the issue with having to reapply kardia constantly even on YOURSELF, and it's LB is kinda underwhelming on top of being instantly cancelled if the WHM turn you into a kappa.
But it's damage output is crazy, Pneuma actually does give a shield to all the teammates around you, and you can constantly apply a 10% damage debuff on ennemies with Toxicon.
I was struggling to climb the ranks with Machinist, swapped to SGE and made it to CRYSTAL rank.
Don't understimate the SGE. It's not overpowered, it's not underpowered, it's pretty much in the middle. It's playable and you can rank up with it.

SGE has the lowest HP in PvP along with a tool that encourages them to be in melee (Phlegma). Not having Kardia on yourself during the neutral game is just asking to be blown up. Aside from that, it tends to be hard to bounce around Kardia on whatever target that needs it, so at that point the SGE's best bet is to try to draw enough fire to break their shield and get an addersting stack.

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Originally Posted by benwithvees

So then what I'm gathering from this thread then is SGE is just bad and would rather have WHM or any other DPS that's not BLM

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SGE isn't bad, but out of the healers it's the most NON-Healer out of the kits. Me not using Kardia on a tank that keeps kamikaze'ing into 1v5 doesn't mean I'm not doing my utility, it means I'm not going to waste my own sustain on someone who keeps dying. Very often I will kardia beefy dps like DRGs and SAMs to help them mow people down. I'm just saying if it comes down to me and one other dps or even just the tank and things start to go south I'm obviously going to try to keep myself alive lol. I'd be stupid not to.

SGE is a ranged barrier assassin, which is neat, but when you stack it up against something like WHM underperforms (SGE is still my main in pvp and I usually do top or second dps)

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Originally Posted by Brownondorf

it's LB is kinda underwhelming on top of being instantly cancelled if the WHM turn you into a kappa

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Its LB is a joke to be honest. It's a bad DoTon that kind of protects you in niche circumstances but without any mitigation/dps buff/heal buff/etc it just becomes a meat grinder where everyone just walks into the circle and destroys you anyways.

It CAN grief and cause people to think twice or protect you, but more often than not due it being not only ground targeting but server ping on top of a cast, I have to be hella far away to cast it and I have to be inside to gain its benefits, putting SGE in melee range where they do NOT want to be for a long time without Pnuema/party mates.

When WHM gets an instant Pnuema Cast with mitigation + regen + heal buff + dps buff AND gets it more often it's kinda like "oh." I've gotten "good" with SGE I think and can kill people but any class that doesn't have CC right now might as well go home at higher ranks.

It's really telling when WHM's LB is literally a better Pnuema that can be cast instantly and without warning and has better effects tacked on.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

SGE has the lowest HP in PvP along with a tool that encourages them to be in melee (Phlegma).

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Yeah this is what kinda makes them like a weird assassin healer too.

Normally what I do is I start the match with Kardia on a tank or DRG/SAM, get los to cast e dosis once to put a shield on them, and then toxicon whatever is getting burst the hardest between dosis until I can zoom in for the kill.

I won't say the healing is "nonexistent" or negligible but it feels like I can't help nearly as much as AST and WHM can. Even Adlo on SCH has a dps buff.

Crystal rank from sage only. Kardia can't be used to save lives. It's used to keep people who are good at taking damage and staying alive in the fight longer. If I'm taking any damage it's going on me. If I'm not taking damage it goes on the tank or mdps. As soon as I need it I'm taking it back. An 8k shield isn't saving an out of position cc-locked teammate from dying. Kardia and Pneuma and LB are used to support a sustained fight and then you icarus in to use phlegma on groups of enemies not focused on you or to secure a pick. Ultimately sage is a teamfight dps with teamfight defensive utility. While Miracle of Nature countering its LB is busted there are plenty of ways to play around it until they fix it, and good sage LBs is the most impact a sage can have on a game and is half the reason a good sage will climb.

SGE's LB would be much more effective if teammates could be counted to actually take advantage of it.

Even if I drop it directly on the crystal during a huge 5v5 skirmish most of the time they will just keep continuing to scuffle outside of its radius instead of forcing the enemy to subject themselves to its DoT.

I think one of the biggest reasons WHM's LB is good is because you don't need your team to play smart to get a lot of mileage out of it (Aside from the fundamentals of capitalizing on its CC to finish people off) compared to other healer/support-focused LBs.