Why not change course?

I wish SE would remove the FC/personal restrictions off all wards and just let the neighborhoods be. Stop development of new wards and leave it as is, and just do instance housing in major cities.

There's enough of them to satsify the majority of people who want a neighborhood by now quite frankly. But there is nowhere near enough of them for people who just want a house.

Why do this to yourselves? And get so much criticism for it? Is it that important to keep with this model? I think the model is good enough to leave as is and abandon it for the development of instanced housing now.

And these instanced homes could take advantage of all the housing walls/exterior/interior decorations so development on those could continue no problem.

So why not do this? Why not both and make everyone happy?

Why not use one of the already existing threads. Oh why?

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

Why not use one of the already existing threads. Oh why?

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Because I want to make a new one, no other reason really. Why do you want to play this game or own a house in it?

No, if there's going to be instanced housing there can't also be ward/neighborhood based housing. Apartments already exist for instanced housing and no one likes them because they're seen as lesser, The Goblet already exists and is seen as lesser by the entire player base. If they were to add instanced housing and keep the wards, there would be a lot of elitism over who has the "legacy" housing, hosting events at an instanced house probably wouldn't fill either, they'd want to pack into a ward instead. Everyone would still fight over the remaining wards. It's either all or nothing, get rid of all wards and go instanced or keep their current way of releasing a new area and new wards once every 2 years.

Pretty much this at this point. I've had a beach house right across from a friend in Shirogane for a few years now and I wouldn't give it up for the world, but I'd rather have instanced housing in major cities with no other players around and living in the cities proper.

Give me a house or manor next to house Fortemp or something similar in Doma. Honestly hope Island Sanctuary works out and I can get my own little farmhouse to mess around with.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

No, if there's going to be instanced housing there can't also be ward/neighborhood based housing. Apartments already exist for instanced housing and no one likes them because they're seen as lesser, The Goblet already exists and is seen as lesser by the entire player base. If they were to add instanced housing and keep the wards, there would be a lot of elitism over who has the "legacy" housing, hosting events at an instanced house probably wouldn't fill either, they'd want to pack into a ward instead. Everyone would still fight over the remaining wards. It's either all or nothing, get rid of all wards and go instanced or keep their current way of releasing a new area and new wards once every 2 years.

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No there wouldn't. Only in the most niche of cases can I even remotely picture Elitism when it comes to housing because most people just want a house. And I doubt they'd be throwing a huge fit because they couldnt get a house in a neighborhood instead of an instanced one.

Also, anytime someone says its either all or nothing its safe to assume they do not value the act of compromising or working together to solve an issue in a realistic situation. So I have to disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by Big_Bap

Why not use one of the already existing threads. Oh why?

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15 seconds of "fame" and clogging the forums...that's why.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

15 seconds of "fame" and clogging the forums...that's why.

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It's a legitimate question. If I could have done so anonymously I would have. I don't think it has anything to do with me quite frankly but I think your desire to attack random people's character online is very revealing of the kind of person that you are.

Since you are assuming about me I'm going to go ahead and assume you like hurting others online to feel good about yourself.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

It's a legitimate question. If I could have done so anonymously I would have. I don't think it has anything to do with me quite frankly but I think your desire to attack random people's character online is very revealing of the kind of person that you are.

Since you are assuming about me I'm going to go ahead and assume you like hurting others online to feel good about yourself.

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It's more an attack on the fact that there are hundred of threads regarding the exact same topic, that will likely all get ignored as it is so, so, so much easier for the devs to get a compiled list of the grievances from a single giant thread than the hundreds of tiny ones that die off after 4-5 pages on average.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

No there wouldn't. Only in the most niche of cases can I even remotely picture Elitism when it comes to housing because most people just want a house. And I doubt they'd be throwing a huge fit because they couldnt get a house in a neighborhood instead of an instanced one.

Also, anytime someone says its either all or nothing its safe to assume they do not value the act of compromising or working together to solve an issue in a realistic situation. So I have to disagree with you.

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People are elitist in this game about the week you clear savage and ultimate, do you really think they wouldn't make the distinction between a real house and an instanced one?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

People are elitist in this game about the week you clear savage and ultimate, do you really think they wouldn't make the distinction between a real house and an instanced one?

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I think they would make a distinctition alright. But quite frankly theres a difference between a minor subset of the population being elitists because they have nothing better to do and a decent percetange of the population being upset they can't enjoy content that gets active development every expansion.

So therefore I don't think the cons outweight the benefits of this change of course.

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Originally Posted by Avatre

It's more an attack on the fact that there are hundred of threads regarding the exact same topic, that will likely all get ignored as it is so, so, so much easier for the devs to get a compiled list of the grievances from a single giant thread than the hundreds of tiny ones that die off after 4-5 pages on average.

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To me it sounded like an attack on myself and that I posted a separate thread because I wanted to be famous when I honestly have no clue who you are and I really hope you don't know who I am. The wording of your comment was pretty clear I thought.

You may have provided your reasoning on why you thought it was okay to attack others, but no. It wasn't a good reason to do that IMO.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I think they would make a distinctition alright. But quite frankly theres a difference between a minor subset of the population being elitists because they have nothing better to do and a decent percetange of the population being upset they can't enjoy content that gets active development every expansion.

So therefore I don't think the cons outweight the benefits of this change of course.

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100% this. Just because people might do something bad with the thing doesn't mean said thing shouldn't be added. I mean, really, if we wanted to that route might as well remove all chat functionality since people can say mean things. Ignore/report elitists/harassment over housing distinctions lol

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

No, if there's going to be instanced housing there can't also be ward/neighborhood based housing. Apartments already exist for instanced housing and no one likes them because they're seen as lesser, The Goblet already exists and is seen as lesser by the entire player base. If they were to add instanced housing and keep the wards, there would be a lot of elitism over who has the "legacy" housing, hosting events at an instanced house probably wouldn't fill either, they'd want to pack into a ward instead. Everyone would still fight over the remaining wards. It's either all or nothing, get rid of all wards and go instanced or keep their current way of releasing a new area and new wards once every 2 years.

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I really don't think that most people care about housing altogether, even less care about dick measuring it.
I'd love cheaper instanced options and I really don't think anyone cares about it being '' lesser ''.
I really couldn't care less about someones opinion on that.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

People are elitist in this game about the week you clear savage and ultimate, do you really think they wouldn't make the distinction between a real house and an instanced one?

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Just stop worrying about people like that they shouldn't mean anything to you.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

People are elitist in this game about the week you clear savage and ultimate, do you really think they wouldn't make the distinction between a real house and an instanced one?

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That... has nothing to do with anything? What's going on in Ultros? What, do people swing by your apartments with laughing emotes and "Haha, look at the peasantry!"?

EDIT: Actually that sounds fun. I am going to go make fun of the peasantry now.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Apartments already exist for instanced housing and no one likes them because they're seen as lesser

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They aren't seen as lesser. They ARE lesser. They are the size of one single FC room.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I really don't think that most people care about housing altogether, even less care about dick measuring it.
I'd love cheaper instanced options and I really don't think anyone cares about it being '' lesser ''.
I really couldn't care less about someones opinion on that.



Just stop worrying about people like that they shouldn't mean anything to you.

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Pretty much this. I really only want a house for my FC so we can do the submersible and airship things. And have a place we can just decorate to our hearts content/have a place we can gather just to chill. If it ends up being an instanced house, cool. The wards were a neat novelty in the games younger years, but have become so badly outdated that it is laughable with how limited it is with the amount of people who actually want, but can't get, a house.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

People are elitist in this game about the week you clear savage and ultimate, do you really think they wouldn't make the distinction between a real house and an instanced one?

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What's worse, not having a house or having an instanced house?

What's likely to attract more elitism?

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

No, if there's going to be instanced housing there can't also be ward/neighborhood based housing. Apartments already exist for instanced housing and no one likes them because they're seen as lesser, The Goblet already exists and is seen as lesser by the entire player base. If they were to add instanced housing and keep the wards, there would be a lot of elitism over who has the "legacy" housing, hosting events at an instanced house probably wouldn't fill either, they'd want to pack into a ward instead. Everyone would still fight over the remaining wards. It's either all or nothing, get rid of all wards and go instanced or keep their current way of releasing a new area and new wards once every 2 years.

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There can't be both even though there is both? Well, actually there is only instanced housing, but some comes in a pseudo neighborhood wrapping. Thing is there are people who like the pseudo neighborhood and feel that is superior. And there are others who feel a fully instanced (including a yard with gardening) experience is superior. You can't get elitist about having a pickle with a person who hates pickles and is perfectly happy with their cucumber.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

No, if there's going to be instanced housing there can't also be ward/neighborhood based housing. Apartments already exist for instanced housing and no one likes them because they're seen as lesser, The Goblet already exists and is seen as lesser by the entire player base. If they were to add instanced housing and keep the wards, there would be a lot of elitism over who has the "legacy" housing, hosting events at an instanced house probably wouldn't fill either, they'd want to pack into a ward instead. Everyone would still fight over the remaining wards. It's either all or nothing, get rid of all wards and go instanced or keep their current way of releasing a new area and new wards once every 2 years.

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Why does it need to be all or nothing? Apartments aren't seen as inferior because they're cheaper, they're seen as inferior because they're smaller and lack the features and options that houses have currently. No yard, no crossbreeding, no subs, no sharing with friends. Plus an extra load screen, I think, but I mean that's relatively meh in comparison. Personally I'd drop my house in a heartbeat if I could have an apartment with those features even if nobody else ever saw it. I'm considering it now so I can unsub for a while without needing to worry and maybe look into housing if they ever make a system that's not a cobbled together pile of bandaids.

Man, I'd kill for Wildstar housing. Even Ultima got housing to acceptable conditions in 1999.

My patience wears thin in this not because I hate the devs or think it's easy, but because it's been almost ten years of a directly advertised feature is still in a state of such horrific disrepair. At this point, just take it off the advertisement and I'll finally have to concede. It bugs the hell out of me that it genuinely was one of the thing that sold me to come into FFXIV and now I'm being told to take a hike if I like it!

Check the mainpage of FFXIV! Housing is still advertised! HECK.

I just feel like they are committed to this neighborhood idea and HAVE to make it work somehow. But maybe they dont have to be so stubborn. Like its okay to take a step back and try a different approach if the current one isnt working. It may be way more efficient.

People have complained about housing since it launched all those many years back. They have always continued on the same path. They aren't going to change.

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Originally Posted by ToniRomo

People have complained about housing since it launched all those many years back. They have always continued on the same path. They aren't going to change.

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And, fittingly, I'm not going to stop complaining.

EDIT: I might sometimes because forum post cap, admittedly, because that's another very intelligent design decision. /s

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

And, fittingly, I'm not going to stop complaining.

EDIT: I might sometimes because forum post cap, admittedly, because that's another very intelligent design decision. /s

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Lol yeah. Basically.

This option would end this cycle once and for all. It doesn’t have be this way lol.

I don't think anything will change. The reason for this is that I believe there is a fostered culture of conformity within SE. SE is highly resistant to change and highly resistant to looking at anything outside of SE as a possible solution to these issues. When Yoshida was brought in to fix FFXIV, it was because of the dumpster fire that was 1.0. SE was desperate and only under such conditions of duress did they finally look to someone outside of the system. At that point he became an insider and it is my opinion that while he had good ideas on how to fix 1.0, his bag of tricks wasn't as deep as would have been necessary to facilitate a proper revamp of other issues such as the glam system and housing. As an insider, he may very well have become under intense pressure to follow the corporate culture. In short, I don't believe he has it within him anymore to be able to fix these issues and I don't think the company is inclined to deal with anything unless we have another full blown 1.0 debacle again. Only then will they once again seek outside help to fix these issues.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

I don't think anything will change. The reason for this is that I believe there is a fostered culture of conformity within SE. SE is highly resistant to change and highly resistant to looking at anything outside of SE as a possible solution to these issues. When Yoshida was brought in to fix FFXIV, it was because of the dumpster fire that was 1.0. SE was desperate and only under such conditions of duress did they finally look to someone outside of the system. At that point he became an insider and it is my opinion that while he had good ideas on how to fix 1.0, his bag of tricks wasn't as deep as would have been necessary to facilitate a proper revamp of other issues such as the glam system and housing. As an insider, he may very well have become under intense pressure to follow the corporate culture. In short, I don't believe he has it within him anymore to be able to fix these issues and I don't think the company is inclined to deal with anything unless we have another full blown 1.0 debacle again. Only then will they once again seek outside help to fix these issues.

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Are we just going to ignore how fundamentally different FFXIV is today than in ARR and how much has actually changed?
Not to mention that people are also complaining about too much change lol.

Plz, Shadowbringers and Endwalker have had an immensely positive reception.
Lets not pretend that the game is falling apart ala 1.0 because the glam and housing have issues.

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Originally Posted by Eraden

Thanks for completely misinterpreting my post. No where in it did I say that the game is currently in the state it was in with 1.0. What I DID say was that the game would have to sink to 1.0 levels again for SE to do anything about it. The problem lies with the corporate culture that SE has fostered. Perhaps try reading the post a bit more carefully next time.

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You were clearly implying that the game is heading towards a 1.0 disaster which is why I said that you're talking about it like it's '' falling apart ala 1.0 ''.
I didn't say that you were saying that the game is currently in the state it was in 1.0, maybe you should read and post a bit more carefully next time.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Are we just going to ignore how fundamentally different FFXIV is today than in ARR and how much has actually changed?
Not to mention that people are also complaining about too much change lol.

Plz, Shadowbringers and Endwalker have had an immensely positive reception.
Lets not pretend that the game is falling apart ala 1.0 because the glam and housing have issues.

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It's really a weird thing I noticed with the forums that when job changes happen sometimes barely a splash is made, but housing? Oh my god if something goes wrong with housing you'd think this game just imploded and Yoshi executed players on a live letter.

Not to say anything about validity of criticism but man housing light's a fire under people's butts like nothing else around here.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Are we just going to ignore how fundamentally different FFXIV is today than in ARR and how much has actually changed?
Not to mention that people are also complaining about too much change lol.

Plz, Shadowbringers and Endwalker have had an immensely positive reception.
Lets not pretend that the game is falling apart ala 1.0 because the glam and housing have issues.

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Thanks for completely misinterpreting my post. No where in it did I say that the game is currently in the state it was in with 1.0. What I DID say was that the game would have to sink to 1.0 levels again for SE to do anything about it. The problem lies with the corporate culture that SE has fostered. Perhaps try reading the post a bit more carefully next time.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

And, fittingly, I'm not going to stop complaining.

EDIT: I might sometimes because forum post cap, admittedly, because that's another very intelligent design decision. /s

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Nothing wrong with that. I have a house, but the whole system is dumb. I got my house by luck before they added all these systems. They should have left the existing neighborhoods as is a long time ago and expanded to use instanced housing instead.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Are we just going to ignore how fundamentally different FFXIV is today than in ARR and how much has actually changed?

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Yeah, classes actually felt unique and content was pretty challenging and the content was coming at a much steadier pace. T-Thanks endwalker...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Are we just going to ignore how fundamentally different FFXIV is today than in ARR and how much has actually changed?
Not to mention that people are also complaining about too much change lol.

Plz, Shadowbringers and Endwalker have had an immensely positive reception.
Lets not pretend that the game is falling apart ala 1.0 because the glam and housing have issues.



You were clearly implying that the game is heading towards a 1.0 disaster which is why I said that you're talking about it like it's '' falling apart ala 1.0 ''.
I didn't say that you were saying that the game is currently in the state it was in 1.0, maybe you should read and post a bit more carefully next time.

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Again, you have failed to read the post carefully. I said it would take a 1.0 disaster for the company to deal with matters by seeking outside help. I did not say that the game was actually heading into 1.0 territory. Dear lord, do people not bother to actually read what is written, anymore?

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Originally Posted by Ath192

I just feel like they are committed to this neighborhood idea and HAVE to make it work somehow. But maybe they dont have to be so stubborn. Like its okay to take a step back and try a different approach if the current one isnt working. It may be way more efficient.

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Once something is implemented, it's easier to maintain it than to try and do something completely new since it's already generating "value" as long as it exists. That's why when something is a controversial or bad feature, the best idea is to just keep it alive and work on other things. What is kind of a haunting problem is that they had a huge population explosion and felt that adding wards would help somehow when there's going to be far more demand than what is available from the effort.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

Once something is implemented, it's easier to maintain it than to try and do something completely new since it's already generating "value" as long as it exists. That's why when something is a controversial or bad feature, the best idea is to just keep it alive and work on other things. What is kind of a haunting problem is that they had a huge population explosion and felt that adding wards would help somehow when there's going to be far more demand than what is available from the effort.

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I can see that but that’s where the fault lies. The perception that it is generating value for the game when it is actually degrading the value of the game and causing bad PR.

To what extent this is occurring is debatable, however, if anything can be drawn from this is that this is decreasing the games value and not enhancing it. It is a sunk cost fallacy.

sunk-cost fallacy
noun
the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial.
"the sunk-cost fallacy creeps into a lot of major financial decisions"