Guard suggested changes

Hi,

I think the way Guard is right now diminish the CC experience with people chain guarding on the crystal during overtime.

I think Guard should:

* Reduced to 3 seconds
* No skills to penetrate Guard

I have several games where the other team made the game 4 minutes longer by just running and Guarding on it one after the other. 5 seconds when respawn is 10-12 seconds is too much.

Bumping to question if I am the only one thinking this way, do you guys really enjoy the overtime under crystal Guard fights?

I personally don't, and either when there is a class that can push everyone out of the crystal and make a win after holding the crystal for minutes of chain Guards.

I would really rather they just give the win to whoever pushed furthest by default and only overtime if both teams are at the same distance value when time runs out, as opposed to going into overtime if the team who should've lost currently has control.

It's less Guard that's the problem then overtime in general IMO.

I kind of like the idea that when the time is off you still have a last chance to push further than what the other team did, but I dislike the strategy of not playing and just Guarding over the Crystal until you can making games extra long for no reason.

Make guard apply a debuff which won't let people sandbag the objective. It's stupid and takes no brain activity to dash up, guard, sandbag

Dramatic changes to Guard just for the sake of preventing Guard-bombing the payload on goal in OT would be absurd.
Personally, I don't think this tactic is a problem at all. On the contrary, it can create some of the highest intensity moments in a match and some incredible comebacks.
That said, if it was a problem, it would make more sense to make changes to the OT rules rather than nerfing Guard and causing all sorts of collateral effects.

I mean... If anything Guard needs to either last longer or be MORE spammable... As it is I can't activate Guard on full health before my health goes to at least half because of ping...

Also, you don't want people to Guard Break? If anything there needs to be MORE Guard Breaks! Y'know, the typical counter to Guard Stalling in fighting games is grab, so we need our staple Guard counter!

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Originally Posted by ReiganCross

I mean... If anything Guard needs to either last longer or be MORE spammable... As it is I can't activate Guard on full health before my health goes to at least half because of ping...

Also, you don't want people to Guard Break? If anything there needs to be MORE Guard Breaks! Y'know, the typical counter to Guard Stalling in fighting games is grab, so we need our staple Guard counter!

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It's pretty sad that the only thing MNK LB really has going for it is the ability to ignore/remove guard when NIN, SAM, and WAR all work far better as counterplay while not actually taking that much longer to charge.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I would really rather they just give the win to whoever pushed furthest by default and only overtime if both teams are at the same distance value when time runs out, as opposed to going into overtime if the team who should've lost currently has control.

It's less Guard that's the problem then overtime in general IMO.

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I like this. Make the games quicker by only going to overtime when it's actually a draw, then make overtime end with 3 conditions:
1. entire enemy team is dead.
2. team controls the crystal for 3 full seconds
3. the crystal gets pushed farther then either team had pushed it before.

tbh disable respawn on OT if you die in OT lol

half joking, half serious :cool:

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I kind of like the idea that when the time is off you still have a last chance to push further than what the other team did, but I dislike the strategy of not playing and just Guarding over the Crystal until you can making games extra long for no reason.

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Do not do this.

Splatoon did not have an overtime at first, and you know what happened? After a certain point, it was impossible for the losing team to come back and win. I was there. After a certain point, the winning team just stopped playing because they literally could not lose. It is the absolute worst feeling that, no matter what you do, even if you get a good rally, you cannot win. Overtime makes it so you have a chance for your hard work to turn it around. I've had games where we did turn it around in Overtime because the opponents got complacent.

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Originally Posted by inhaledcorn

Do not do this.

Splatoon did not have an overtime at first, and you know what happened? After a certain point, it was impossible for the losing team to come back and win. I was there. After a certain point, the winning team just stopped playing because they literally could not lose. It is the absolute worst feeling that, no matter what you do, even if you get a good rally, you cannot win. Overtime makes it so you have a chance for your hard work to turn it around. I've had games where we did turn it around in Overtime because the opponents got complacent.

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I think u missread my coment. I am saying I kind of like the current implementation of overtime, I dislike the tactic of chain run to the crystal and use guard, dying 1by1 like lemmings for minutes to end losing anyway coz you cant win by sacrificing a player every 5 seconds.

My longest match has been 12 minutes. Most are under 5. Maybe it's my rank or something but any complaints about match time are laughable to me when pvp queue for feast was hours and frontlines feels like it drags on for twice of what it should. I'll take a 12 minute match with guard countering over running around in front lines any day.

It's not about game length but quality. Watching people run over crystal and use guard, die and repeat with next player is annoying and is not fun. I want to pvp, not to watch lemmings holding the crystal.

Easy enough to fix without actually changing how guard works. Simply add a debuff when respawning that disables guard for 15 seconds. That would be the equivelance of almost 30 seconds of no guard between the debuff and actually respawning.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

It's not about game length but quality. Watching people run over crystal and use guard, die and repeat with next player is annoying and is not fun. I want to pvp, not to watch lemmings holding the crystal.

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I mean if we want to talk about quality it's not really fun to watch server ping/qualify constantly screw you out of Guarding or purifying and sit there stunned while the tooltip literally says "can cure silence" but can't lol.

At least this way we're both being griefed :P

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Originally Posted by Brixy

Easy enough to fix without actually changing how guard works. Simply add a debuff when respawning that disables guard for 15 seconds. That would be the equivelance of almost 30 seconds of no guard between the debuff and actually respawning.

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I'll never understand why healers don't have a rescue that can work on enemies and such when WAR can yank you around and so can DRK to a lesser extent. It would allow for things like this to be mitigated by proper class play and using the kits.

If they provided more utility/map control to more classes it would vary that gameplay up but right now it's just stunlock > burst, so guard is really the only counter anyone has against it. :/

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

It's not about game length but quality. Watching people run over crystal and use guard, die and repeat with next player is annoying and is not fun. I want to pvp, not to watch lemmings holding the crystal.

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That seems like a minor annoyance at best to the winning team, but the best possible hope for the losing team that doesn't want to lose his promo game. And if you somehow manage to get a win out of it, I think it's worth the shot.

Is there a list somewhere, of what abilities penetrate guard?

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

It's not about game length but quality. Watching people run over crystal and use guard, die and repeat with next player is annoying and is not fun. I want to pvp, not to watch lemmings holding the crystal.

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100% this it's super boring that it's being used as a back 2 back save haven instead of using it to dodge map abilities or limit breakers

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

It's pretty sad that the only thing MNK LB really has going for it is the ability to ignore/remove guard when NIN, SAM, and WAR all work far better as counterplay while not actually taking that much longer to charge.

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SAM requires people to be stupid enough to hit the same when the Chiten buff is visible and they have or are about to have full gauge. NIN requires them to be under half health for an extended period of time, server tick delay can completely screw you out of your LB if you try to ult someone that's right at the line because it has a notable cast animation. WAR has a 90 sec charge timer and doesn't actually do damage. RPR and DNC ults also break Guard by forcing actions.

Meteodrive is one of the best LBs in the game, dude. It's a big part of what makes MNK such a relentless, unstoppable monster.

I mean if they're running in one at a time to guard and you're not killing them thats kind of on your team. Guarding to protect the point is a legitimate strategy. It also leaves you incredibly vulnerable to be burst down the second guard ends. Sounds like your team needs to stop blowing their big cooldowns on guard and wait five seconds.

Entirely removal of guard would be better, it serve no purpose in CC nor FL at all.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Entirely removal of guard would be better, it serve no purpose in CC nor FL at all.

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What? You can't be serious.