Devs: Why do you insist on the "Not reward for you efforts" system?

Hello.

I direct this message to the dev team, thanks if the community reps could forward it.

Today happened once again that (most likely) last minute deliveries at Hamlet Defense had my last days of gathering & crafting supplies gone to waste.
This was the situation tonight at 02.00 AM (GMT +2), where I was at spot 7 with 250.000 points, usually enough to be in the Top20:

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...09c3001f4d.jpg

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...09c00028a4.jpg


This is the surprise I found out now:

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...09b7001e4d.jpg

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...09c00028a5.jpg

Since I couldn't stay up until 05.00 AM only to be sure I would have still been in the Top 20 the next day (sorry if the devs thought one had to do this to have the efforts rewarded :D), my previous days went to waste. :) And I say days because I don't stay much in Eorzea and even more for this reason, if I put commitment into something, I would like my efforts to be rewarded and not giving a sense of frustration for time gone to waste.

I can get 300.000 points for tomorrow, OK, but this doesn't really solve anything, if someone deliver 300.001 the last minute.

Also, as we all know, being in the Top1 or Top20 spot doesn't seem to influence what you get in the end, which really makes me ask why creating a system like this.

I don't know if other adventurers like this random stuff, but like the speed runs/AoE feast pointless design, I think there's something not right in here.
I spoke about a similar matter in the past, now fixed:

- Earn what you get => Reward for your Efforts


Couldn't we have something like threesholds? Like, if I work hard for several days to gather 300.000 points, there's a 300.000 threeshold in the Top20 and I'm guaranteed my spot is not taken by someone delivering the last minute. Just look at this picture of some days ago, everyone there to be sure their spot is not taken (me too! ...and it didn't serve anyway. :D):

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...09c00028a7.jpg

Can we have an improvement to this not rewarding system before 2.0, please? So that, once again, if an adventurer has little time to stay in Eorzea but works hard for many days to get the necessary points to be in the Top20, he or she is sure to not be kicked out of it in the last minute?

Thanks if you could take this into consideration before 2.0.

Cloudio Onizuka

This might get people more mad than anything but what about a cap per hour? A player can only place a maximum of 1000 points worth every hour. This means that in order to be a high scorer, you'd have to come back periodically to turn in stuff. Despite this, it'll protect those same players from people doing last minute turn ins based on the points of the few last placers. If you want to catch the top supporters, you have to be more diligent.
Hamlet Levels would have to be adjusted.
It's an idea. Just throwing it out there so maybe someone can come up with something similar but better. =D

The way I see it, there is a few problems:

1) They need a system to 'encourage' people to keep contributing so that the defense level keeps going up. If you know you were locked into top 20, you would immediately stop contributing. That might not be enough to push the level up. Likewise, if you want to push the level up you do not get anything else for contributing.

2) They need a system that rewards people who contribute even if they are not in top 20 (after all they still contributed).

3) The scale of rewards must be fair. Whoever is suddenly 21st should not get less than the person who is 20th.

4) There should be a system so that your contributions are not wasted if you can not make it to the battle phase.


Suggestion:
All points are cummulative and does not matter if you are 1st, 21st, or last. Your contribution is recorded. Your contribution rolls over from one supply phase to another, and never expires.

Reward for Contribution:
During battle, 1% of your point contribution goes to score. If you had 250,000 points you get 2500 points. A team of 8 high contributors would get a 20,000 point lead.

Likewise, 10% of your points would then be subtracted from your score. This would be calculated after each battle, for example:

Battle 1: 2500 point bonus, 225,000 left
Battle 2: 2250 point bonus, 202,500 left
Battle 20: 337.71 point bonus, 30,000 left
Battle 50: 14 point bonus, 1,288 left

So if you were focused, and did 20 battles during the battle phase (which is not obscene amount) you would end up having only a tiny bonus (and therefore incentive to contribute next hamlet phase). If you were obsessed and went for 50 battles the point bonus would be negligible (and you might as well take a break and let it roll over to the next battle phase).


On the other hand, if you only contributed a little, for example 20,000 points (20 militia items, or 2 +1 Militia Items), you would only get 200 points. And if 8 of you got together, that would be a 1600 point bonus for the run.


This way, those who contribute more, get a better reward, while those who contribute little still get a reward.


They also know what their 'reward' for contribution will be (simple calculation).

And if you miss a battle phase you can let it roll over to the next one.

Also, a cap can be introduced (max contribution 10M points for example) so there would be a limit of 100k point bonus.

I think this way, everyone happy, and no sad suprises.

I never did Hamlet Defense seriously, but I don't know, if somebody outpasses you that means you have to give even more supplies to be able to stay on your Top20, keep updating the list and if you aren't in your Top20 anymore you have to do your best giving even more provisions.
The probem here is... The Time. Not everybody has all the time in the world, so casual players might never see themselves in the Top20.

@Onizuka :

No worry about it, your word already reach the JP of the dev team. I remember Reinhart posted in his translator that a lot of JP also pointing the same issue. Although, there isn't any word from official dev respond yet. but pretty sure they get the message at least.

Get rid of Hamlet Defense, probliem solved...... now that, that got your attention
I'd rather have stuff like this as a Brought expansion pack that actuly has drop rates! & rewards with better thought out time limits e.t.c. than the current free content with 0.0001 drop rates & reward system.

I have made comments of my concerns about Hamlet defense in the past. At this point however, now that I have learned more about the challenges & requirements and how they work, I take them all back. This content was well implemented and is to this day very fun.

Well, yes, I also enjoy Hamlet Defense, a content where I can finally play with my main classes of Disciples of the Land & Hand, but this is not what I'm talking about here.
I'm talking about the not rewarding system if you're not an hardcore player that can stay until the last minute or deliver each day over 300.000 points of items.

But even if I'm no hardcore, it just takes me more time to do what an hardcore do, but in the end, after some days, I can get my 300.000 points, and for this reason:

1. I'd like my efforts to be rewarded (and I just discovered that the gatherers' hats apparently come randomly from the chest, no matter if you're in the Top20 or not, so the chances don't increase for those items even if you work hard as a provisioner).

2. I'd like my spot not to be taken my someone who delivers 300.001 points (rough example) in the last minute, while I'm not in Eorzea.


As it is now, the system is not rewarding, and I'm just asking for some improvements on this matter, that are clearly needed.

Is there any proof that beeing in the top 20 is better for the drop chance?
I saw people not being in the top 20 but with more reward than people in the top 20 after the day.

I can tell you that, as far as I know, this is how it works for the Top 20 idio... provisioners:

1. Being at spot #1 in the ranking and at spot #20 apparently doesn't matter, which says it all on the Reward System created.

2. You can still get some Militia stuff without being in the Top 20, like I myself got the Militia Subligar while I wasn't in it.

3. The true rare things and I think the really worthwhile ones that in my opinion should be obtained by working hard to get them (like being in the Top3 to increase a lot the chances of a drop) rather than hoping for a completely random drop, and I'm talking about the 3 special gatherer's hats, come randomly from the chest and it doesn't matter if you're in the Top 20 or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Onizuka

Well, yes, I also enjoy Hamlet Defense, a content where I can finally play with my main classes of Disciples of the Land & Hand, but this is not what I'm talking about here.
I'm talking about the not rewarding system if you're not an hardcore player that can stay until the last minute or deliver each day over 300.000 points of items.

But even if I'm no hardcore, it just takes me more time to do what an hardcore do, but in the end, after some days, I can get my 300.000 points, and for this reason:

1. I'd like my efforts to be rewarded (and I just discovered that the gatherers' hats apparently come randomly from the chest, no matter if you're in the Top20 or not, so the chances don't increase for those items even if you work hard as a provisioner).

2. I'd like my spot not to be taken my someone who delivers 300.001 points (rough example) in the last minute, while I'm not in Eorzea.


As it is now, the system is not rewarding, and I'm just asking for some improvements on this matter, that are clearly needed.

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Your entire post rings of typical modern day "me me me! I'm special!" gamer entitlement. But your point #2 just drips with it.

Someone who turns in more than you as the clock is running out shouldn't be rewarded for it if it means pushing you off the list? Why? They turned in more than you within the time limit. Those are the rules. They turned in more than you did. They deserve the spot more than you do.

And don't even start with any "But the hardcores..." nonsense. You can't assume everyone who does more than you is automatically "a hardcore player with more time". It especially doesn't work in your scenario where they beat you by 1 or even a few more. That just makes you look like a sore loser.

But let's test your theory by reversing the situation. Let's say someone else was set for a top 20 spot already. You manage to turn in enough to beat them at the last minute. However, you find that even though you beat them in turn-ins, you don't get the spot, and they remain there. Would you say it's fair in that situation? I would bet real money you wouldn't. You'd be here complaining on the forums about how unfair and broken the system is; that you should have taken that spot because you turned in more.

Your post is a wonderful example of the attitude people refer to when they talk about players these days being self-entitled, expecting everything they want to be given to them, and on their terms.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

players these days being self-entitled, expecting everything they want to be given to them

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Hi therrrre, kitten and good day to you!
Usually I don't answer to these kind of posts, but I had a boring morning at the instanced raid hospital and you made me smile, so allow me to. :)

Your post is a wonderful example of the attitude of this forum where if one asks:

“In next patch I would like you to introduce a new dye.”

...there is always at least another one who misinterpret it as:

“In 7 days your linkpearl will ring and you will die.”

And therefore stereotypize it as “the usual complainer”, not understanding the real meaning and purpose of the Topic. Always fun for me to read when it happens. :D

Luckily the community reps can distinguish the difference and most likely understood what I'm talking about here.
The Hamlet Defense Reward System is flawed exactly like the Speed Runs idea of content. I'd have to wear a Subligar on my eyes for not seeing it, and I'm sure the dev team is well aware of the issue, but won't fix it in the near future to keep adventurers doing the same content over and over again until they get what they want. Unless, of course, they get bored earlier.

Recently I'm starting to see always more and more adventurers with Darklight equipment. Finally, after the I bet countless times they did the instanced raids, they got rewarded... But I would like to ask them: “Hey, did you have fun in doing the same Speed Run/AoE Feast with the same Jobs so many times?”

Like I said in the Speed Runs thread, if I had to review the game again now, I'd list all the improvements that everyone can see, but also what got worse, and these 2 new contents introduced with their Reward System, as much as I personally enjoy Hamlet Defense, are extremely bad-thought.
That said, I'm sure they'll fix it and make it more rewarding, I just hope it'll be before 2.0.

Au revoir!