(6.X Spoilers/Theory) Future WOL Content - Everything’s Coming Up…

…Azem.

It does feel to me like it’s starting to happen - and that it’s possible we wrap the Azem storyline up far quicker than I thought.

-We’ve got Y’shtola wanting to hop between shards as a driving plot point. That’s an easy way for us to “collect them all” when it comes to remaining Azem shards.

-We’ve got Void story elements and Zenos’ Reaper pal - long thought to be the Azem of the 13th. This 13th Azem shard may even be an “original” Azem from the post-sundering, depending on how soon the 13th fell after the sundering. So 13th Azem might actually remember being “Azem.” (But the Azem shard could also be our new knightly looking villain…)

-We’ve got Raid Azeyma pretty much confirmed to not be our Azem. My theory is that the 12 are Ancient clones (clones of some Ancient person(s)) - with Emet to blame for their creation (and possibly powering them with shards of his sundered pals). This means we should look elsewhere… possibly at characters with capes very similar to the ones we all just got. Or maybe suspicious monkeys.

-If Deryk (that cape) or his monkey are Oschon - it’s possible Emet went and snatched an Azem shard from another reflection and elevated it to Oschon. Did anyone catch the symbol on his cuff, seen when he’s sitting at the table with the team? I don’t recognize it.

-But most telling (for me) is the last fight in the new raid - where the game designers have our party fighting reflections of our own characters. That feels like further testing/teasing (after the Zenos body-snatch) for when we meet (and maybe fight) other Azem shards.

Maybe Azem shard collection will be a big part of the next expansion - or maybe we’re starting it right now…

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

-If Deryk (that cape) or his monkey are Oschon - it’s possible Emet went and snatched an Azem shard from another reflection and elevated it to Oschon. Did anyone catch the symbol on his cuff, seen when he’s sitting at the table with the team? I don’t recognize it.

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Yeah, I've thought it interesting since they started going into detail on Azem that they and Oschon are both known for being wanderers. I'm not sure exactly where they're going to go with it, but it seems like the twelve have to be connected to the convocation in some way, maybe based on members of it. That would explain the similarities between Oschon and Azem.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

-We’ve got Y’shtola wanting to hop between shards as a driving plot point. That’s an easy way for us to “collect them all” when it comes to remaining Azem shards.

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Not necessarily, it all depends on whether Azem's soul shards have actually reincarnated or are still resting in the Lifestream. Also, if they are alive, what if they're still in childhood? Ask yourself this: would you slaughter an innocent child just to rejoin a soul fragment?

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

(But the Azem shard could also be our new knightly looking villain…)

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The 'black knight' in the Void is clearly none other than

FFIV's main antagonist Golbez (the connection is further rammed home by the 'elemental thrones' obviously being the Four Archfiends Rubicante, Cagnazzo, Barbariccia and Scarmiglione, and the music in that cutscene is none other than a remix of a variation of Golbez's theme from FFIV called Somewhere in the World . I do agree it's very possible that Void!Golbez is potentially the Thirteenth's soul fragment of Azem, given how in FFIV Golbez was protagonist Cecil's brother.

As for Zenos's avatar, there is the possibility it's actually Zenos's own soul fragment, so warped and corrupted it could no longer rejoin to him but merely acts as a puppet. But that theory is so full of holes it's probably wrong. :p

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

-But most telling (for me) is the last fight in the new raid - where the game designers have our party fighting reflections of our own characters. That feels like further testing/teasing (after the Zenos body-snatch) for when we meet (and maybe fight) other Azem shards.

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We've already fought other Warriors of Light back in the Heroes' Gauntlet in 5.3 (that Elidibus partially summoned), it's entirelly possible any one of those was Azem's soul fragment. But given there is only four remaining Shards (other than the First and Thirteenth), that's not a huge selection to choose from. And again, as I mentioned there is no guarantee Azem's fragments have been reincarnated and are currently alive on a Shard - presumedly the Shard ones only reincarnate when a Shard was primed for a rejoining and so Hydaelyn reincarnated them specifically to try and stop it, usually without success. But that's just my theory so don't take that as correct! :D

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

My theory is that the 12 are Ancient clones (clones of some Ancient person(s)) - with Emet to blame for their creation (and possibly powering them with shards of his sundered pals). This means we should look elsewhere… possibly at characters with capes very similar to the ones we all just got. Or maybe suspicious monkeys.

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The thing that gives me pause about the Twelve being Ancient is that Rhalgr is very obviously Elezen with those big ol' pointy ears and Byregot is either a heroically muscular Hyur or a Roegadyn. The weird thing about that is that Rhalgr is supposed to be Byregot's dad according to legend. But I think I heard Byregot call Rhalgr "master" so maybe people got the relationship confused? Or the pointy ears and Roegadyn-ness are just artistic decisions that have nothing to do with modern races.

Well they make a point of saying that 12 worship goes back a ways. Could have been that The “true” relationships among them all got confused over the years.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

…Azem.

It does feel to me like it’s starting to happen - and that it’s possible we wrap the Azem storyline up far quicker than I thought.

-We’ve got Y’shtola wanting to hop between shards as a driving plot point. That’s an easy way for us to “collect them all” when it comes to remaining Azem shards.

-We’ve got Void story elements and Zenos’ Reaper pal - long thought to be the Azem of the 13th. This 13th Azem shard may even be an “original” Azem from the post-sundering, depending on how soon the 13th fell after the sundering. So 13th Azem might actually remember being “Azem.” (But the Azem shard could also be our new knightly looking villain…)

-We’ve got Raid Azeyma pretty much confirmed to not be our Azem. My theory is that the 12 are Ancient clones (clones of some Ancient person(s)) - with Emet to blame for their creation (and possibly powering them with shards of his sundered pals). This means we should look elsewhere… possibly at characters with capes very similar to the ones we all just got. Or maybe suspicious monkeys.

-If Deryk (that cape) or his monkey are Oschon - it’s possible Emet went and snatched an Azem shard from another reflection and elevated it to Oschon. Did anyone catch the symbol on his cuff, seen when he’s sitting at the table with the team? I don’t recognize it.

-But most telling (for me) is the last fight in the new raid - where the game designers have our party fighting reflections of our own characters. That feels like further testing/teasing (after the Zenos body-snatch) for when we meet (and maybe fight) other Azem shards.

Maybe Azem shard collection will be a big part of the next expansion - or maybe we’re starting it right now…

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Maybe it's just me, but it feels like an overthinking. Exaggerated thoughts.
First of all, the WoL isn't on a mission to rejoin with other shards and that will probably stay the case. We literally just beat Zodiark and the incarnation of despair without any need for more rejoinings.
As for your second point, I'd rather not discuss it because ever since we found out about the shards stuff. People have been theorizing and claiming every single voidsent we see in MSQ and side content to be Azem shard of the 13th.
And regarding the twelve, fair enough. I too have suspected they're related to the ancients as soon as I have seen the helix of their shrines being identical to that of Amaurot. They're definitely related as no civilization (In-game or even irl) have the same helix as Amaurot did, though the rest of the structures are totally different which is interesting. Maybe they're from an older Amaurot than the one we know of? Who knows. Looking forward to see what 6.3 will add to the mystery.
One last point, I'd not really assume Oschon is related to Azem because he has the same title. Being a traveler or labeled as such isn't exclusive to Azem.

A side note I'd like to say after the patch is that every location or mystery hinted by Emet-Selch during the last quests of 6.0 that we were capable of investigating had something unique or interesting to it. The ruins beneath the bounty hosting a void portal and the twelve are real beings and powerful with their own respective domains. Keep in mind Emet-Selch and the rest of the ascians didn't know about the whole Alexander time travel (Or probably it being real time travel) despite it can be utilized in a much more valuable to the ascians than the rejoinings themselves. This can indicate that the ascians have direct or indirect connections to the twelve among other things but who knows?

Edit note: I forgot to say, the mechanic you mentioned in the last fight of the new raid? That has been used multiple time throughout the history of the game and isn't really something new. (Open world Odin and DRK questlines are example of content that duplicates your character as a hostile NPC to fight)

I think if they were going to make a big deal about Azeyma, they would've done it when she turned up, rather than focusing on Rhalgr and Nald'thal. For whatever reason, they're downsizing her presence in comparison to others, so it's unlikely that she's going to suddenly be the big superstar of the alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Not necessarily, it all depends on whether Azem's soul shards have actually reincarnated or are still resting in the Lifestream. Also, if they are alive, what if they're still in childhood? Ask yourself this: would you slaughter an innocent child just to rejoin a soul fragment?

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I don’t think we need to worry about that too much. If the writers want us to get the rest of the Azem shards - then I don’t think we’ll get obstacles like that thrown in our way. More likely it’ll be a character like Arbert (the best ghost husband) who will die on their own or through noble sacrifice. Maybe to mix things up it’ll be a non-human character on another shard - like a valiant Odder Otter.

I also wonder if a “villain” hasn’t collected a few shards already. (Looks at Void Knight with intense suspicion).

Are we even considered to be the 'Warrior of Light' at this point?

So far as I recall, we were rarely - if ever - referred to as such in the new content.

Hmmmm. Good point. What are we referring to ourselves these days? Is there something better to use in the forum?

The new story certainly is trying to ram home that you're supposedly just a 'simple adventurer' again (I mean, it's right there in the patch's title; 'Newfound Adventure').. except, well, that's clearly just a fallacy given how the first attempts to be one again have kind of gone off the rails: a spontaenous trip investigating an 'ancient ruin' simply for the riches it supposedly contained nearly got them in serious hot water with the Hannish government (it was only because of well, everything you and the Scions did for Thavnair throughout EW did Vrtra and Radz-at-Han not pursue formal repercussions, any normal adventurer however would have been charged as the thief and intruder they were and be thrown into prison for the rest of their life - hence, that's the last time I'm taking advice from Tataru. ;)).

So, yeah, I don't see the 'simple adventurer' gimmick lasting, especially with the Void coming back into focus and the new villians now hinted - having the lofty reputation as the WoL does tend to provide just as much protection politically as it causes issues personally. ;)

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The new story certainly is trying to ram home that you're supposedly just a 'simple adventurer' again (I mean, it's right there in the patch's title; 'Newfound Adventure').. except, well, that's clearly just a fallacy given how the first attempts to be one again have kind of gone off the rails: a spontaenous trip investigating an 'ancient ruin' simply for the riches it supposedly contained nearly got them in serious hot water with the Hannish government (it was only because of well, everything you and the Scions did for Thavnair throughout EW did Vrtra and Radz-at-Han not pursue formal repercussions, any normal adventurer however would have been charged as the thief and intruder they were and be thrown into prison for the rest of their life - hence, that's the last time I'm taking advice from Tataru. ;)).

So, yeah, I don't see the 'simple adventurer' gimmick lasting, especially with the Void coming back into focus and the new villians now hinted - having the lofty reputation as the WoL does tend to provide just as much protection politically as it causes issues personally. ;)

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Indeed. This is why I think the “simple adventurer” is a narrative dodge - and we’re actually setting up our “Azem Quest” series, where we examine what it is to be a wanderer, an adventurer, and probably (again) what makes a “hero.”

I can see the writers examining all these facets using shards of Azem quite easily. Some Azems we meet will be heroes, some villains, some lonely wanderers - and I’m hoping at least one Azem will be a Spriggan touring in a rock band.

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Originally Posted by Carin-Eri

Are we even considered to be the 'Warrior of Light' at this point?

So far as I recall, we were rarely - if ever - referred to as such in the new content.

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Id say no, Tataru specifically said to put aside all titles and just be an adventurer again. But i think the catch is that while the WOL can put aside their title, the people who know them will not at least... in eorzea. But accross the sea? In the places we havent been to in ilsabard and in the far east, not to mention the other reflections I think in those places the WOLcan just be an adventurer... until the populous coin a new title that is.

I don't think we will get much on Azem, barring maybe vague cutscenes. A bit part of the appeal with Azem is that to us they're an enigmatic figure, SE knowing this probably don't want to overextend on Azem but instead just leave it on the players' imagination for the character.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I don't think we will get much on Azem, barring maybe vague cutscenes. A bit part of the appeal with Azem is that to us they're an enigmatic figure, SE knowing this probably don't want to overextend on Azem but instead just leave it on the players' imagination for the character.

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I’m still in the camp that we’ll eventually play as Azem, because we are Azem - through shard collection and time travel shenanigans. Personally I’m kinda excited to send my WOL on a loopy adventure like that. Maybe we’ll get a clearer picture once we get the scoop on Zenos’ void buddy. If that’s an Azem shard, then I’d bet we’re eventually snatching them all.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I’m still in the camp that we’ll eventually play as Azem, because we are Azem - through shard collection and time travel shenanigans. Personally I’m kinda excited to send my WOL on a loopy adventure like that. Maybe we’ll get a clearer picture once we get the scoop on Zenos’ void buddy. If that’s an Azem shard, then I’d bet we’re eventually snatching them all.

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I think the best I can personally see is us having flashbacks to what our original plan was... Why did we boycott the convocation and in equal measure why we didn't answer Venat's call? (But then I suppose there's no real appropriate time for this now, unless they fit it within the 8-man raid series) We must have been working on something significant, and I personally cannot see us boycotting the world to cherish some more sublime grapes, or maybe this time she wanted to save blueberries, but I kid...

I can see us potentially exploring more of what we were up to, I don't think they'll ever want to have us doing a collect 'em all outside of the void fragment, that is if the hypothesis is correct, but then it stands to question can we even rejoin with it. They won't want us going all out massacring our fragments. I think the game would do better with a power sink than a power increase.

Again, the enigmatic nature of our unsundered self is what makes the character itself appealing. The more they reveal the figure, the less appealing said figure becomes. They made a dangerous call when they started breaking that wall with character identity, so I think they'll just maintain the status quo of us not being Azem, but an inheritor of a fragment of their soul.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I think the best I can personally see is us having flashbacks to what our original plan was... Why did we boycott the convocation and in equal measure why we didn't answer Venat's call? (But then I suppose there's no real appropriate time for this now, unless they fit it within the 8-man raid series) We must have been working on something significant, and I personally cannot see us boycotting the world to cherish some more sublime grapes, or maybe this time she wanted to save blueberries, but I kid...

I can see us potentially exploring more of what we were up to, I don't think they'll ever want to have us doing a collect 'em all outside of the void fragment, that is if the hypothesis is correct, but then it stands to question can we even rejoin with it. They won't want us going all out massacring our fragments. I think the game would do better with a power sink than a power increase.

Again, the enigmatic nature of our unsundered self is what makes the character itself appealing. The more they reveal the figure, the less appealing said figure becomes. They made a dangerous call when they started breaking that wall with character identity, so I think they'll just maintain the status quo of us not being Azem, but an inheritor of a fragment of their soul.

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I agree that we’ll probably explore what Azem was doing during the sundering. It’s a big dangling plot thread. We might get to explore it in an expansion - or they’ll simply wrap it up during this patch series. For example they could just tell us Azem made the 12 and that’s why they were busy. The end. Not terribly satisfying - but possible. (And I hope they don’t go that rout).

I don’t think it’s dangerous at all though to explore Azem, especially if we get to play as that character eventually. If we eventually find out that we are Azem through shard collection and time travel - then we’ll get to interpret Azem’s actions just as we do our current character, because they’ll be the same person.

Also, we never hear about Azem being particularly good at any of the Ancient stuff. What if Emet is so disdainful of our character on Elpis, because Azem (our character) is really, really bad at making things with our mind. Emet might be like, “Of course Azem made that ugly little familiar.” If we do go back in time to work with the Ancients, and become Azem, we wouldn’t know the first thing about using our powers. We might even get sent to school just to learn the basics. Which could be fun (:

I'm wondering if the Twelve predate the Convocation and Azem's title was named after Azeyma. We still don't know what the Twelve actually are other than their insistence that they're not primals, so who knows. Maybe they were around before Amaurot and inspired them, too.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

I'm wondering if the Twelve predate the Convocation and Azem's title was named after Azeyma. We still don't know what the Twelve actually are other than their insistence that they're not primals, so who knows. Maybe they were around before Amaurot and inspired them, too.

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id honestly be ok with that angle. with a large portion of the lore eventually tying back to the ancients imo itd be great for something to predate them.

Perhaps the Twelve were the ancient companions/friends of Azem (the one before Venat maybe?)

It surely seems connected with the Ancients, there are some similarities in the "spirals" structures on the roofs at the Phantom Realm!

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Originally Posted by Ignis_Fatuus

Perhaps the Twelve were the ancient companions/friends of Azem (the one before Venat maybe?)

It surely seems connected with the Ancients, there are some similarities in the "spirals" structures on the roofs at the Phantom Realm!

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I’m definitely down with the 12 predating the Ancients. That would be fascinating. But I also like this idea that the 12 were Azem’s “Scions.” That could lead to some interesting story ideas down the road if we do travel back in time to become Azem. Sort of like Argos - we’re meeting people “after” they met us…

I still think it's plausible that the Twelve are related to the Ancients, but I think more plausible than any other angle is that they're somehow connected to Venat's crew more than anything else. That might provide an explanation for why Azeyma and Venat have the same voice actor beyond 'well she's got the right voice and we're paying her for voice work right now'.

Everyone else's voice actors are kinda muddy (I've seen a lot of people try to read things into Nald'thal's voice actors without anyone even being on the same page about who those voice actors are), but Azeyma and Venat sharing a VA is pretty clear. At least, in English; for that to be admissable evidence then every single language would've needed to cast their Venat as Azeyma as well.

Is it confirmed it's the same VA? Comparing Azeyma to Hydaelyn, they don't sound the same to me. Even if it is the same VA (several of them voice multiple characters unrelated to one another) if Azeyma is supposed to be Venat I'd think she should sound more like Hydaelyn than she does.

Hard to say for sure since I can't find the voices separate from raid videos with too loud music and combat noises. Someone on Reddit said Nald'Thal is Hythlodaeus & Emet's VAs, if he ends up being a combination of them you'll never see someone change their patron deity so fast. :P

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

Is it confirmed it's the same VA? Comparing Azeyma to Hydaelyn, they don't sound the same to me. Even if it is the same VA (several of them voice multiple characters unrelated to one another) if Azeyma is supposed to be Venat I'd think she should sound more like Hydaelyn than she does.

Hard to say for sure since I can't find the voices separate from raid videos with too loud music and combat noises. Someone on Reddit said Nald'Thal is Hythlodaeus & Emet's VAs, if he ends up being a combination of them you'll never see someone change their patron deity so fast. :P

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Nope. No confirmed VAs at all in any language, and I have heard at least two names attributed for every single one. Azeyma being Venat has been the most consistent, but I've also heard Y'shtola--or rather, that she sounds like Titania (who Robyn Addison also voiced) without the Welsh accent. Some people declare Nald'thal to be Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus; others claim Fandaniel and G'raha Tia.

Rhalgr and Byregot don't really have anyone spinning interesting theories for, but Byregot also seems like the biggest enigma because nobody's really confident at all about who that might be. Best guess I've heard was maybe Vauthry's VA--which would throw any theories of parallel voices out the window, because Vauthry doesn't make a clean parallel for any of the groups people are drawing.

But chances are, they just got people they already had on contract to lay down a half-dozen extra lines and didn't actually do any greater casting deliberations than that. We're only gonna hear these characters barking out combat lines in one fight each; why hire someone entirely new to do those, when you could just ask the guy already in the booth to lay down some lines for 'basically Odin'? Wouldn't even be the first time; Gosetsu's VA voices Vrtra and Urianger's voices Susano, I don't really think anyone's drawing up theory boards about that.

There is a book in the restricted library part of the msq that claims if a primal is summoned to be a 'god' they would always believe they are a 'god' even if they are a primal.

Not sure if this is meant to through us off the answer here, but this would point to the fat that their adamant claim to be 'gods' is proof perfect they are primals.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

There is a book in the restricted library part of the msq that claims if a primal is summoned to be a 'god' they would always believe they are a 'god' even if they are a primal.

Not sure if this is meant to through us off the answer here, but this would point to the fat that their adamant claim to be 'gods' is proof perfect they are primals.

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i thought it was talking about Alexander since it kept bringing up "knowing everything".

edit: also i dont think this could be seen as perfect evidence for primals since you can accuse auspices and, heck, just about anything with that and thered be no way of defending against it.

I'm torn between which suggestion I like more - the use of minions and denial of being primals to mean that the Twelve are funky auspices (which I'd like for that to be used in something that isn't the Four Lords or one holiday quest) or that the very brushed-over right now Amaroutine architectural spiral on the gate seals and thus their obvious connection to something Ancient is that they are actually something from early or pre-'contemporary' Ancient society, because that society feels very shallow, incomplete, and unrealistic when it comes to what the lives of its average citizens were and culture beyond 'contribute creations to our review board and then after you've created enough content for our game, rejoin the planet', if their country/city-state/nation? shared the planet with anyone else (or was even native to Etheirys), and their history, so it'd be nice if we're stuck having to go back to the Ancients for lore, that it explores a new facet of their timeline. Just like how Allag gets the lion's share of focus when it comes to Eorzea's past civilizations, and not only that but Allagan history is almost always focused on the last 50 years instead of the centuries before.

But my first theory entering the raid, because of the emphasis on the 6 elements, is that the whatever the Twelve ties to elementals and that their origins are/were as the most powerful versions of the sprites we encounter everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

-We’ve got Y’shtola wanting to hop between shards as a driving plot point. That’s an easy way for us to “collect them all” when it comes to remaining Azem shards.

<snip>

Maybe Azem shard collection will be a big part of the next expansion - or maybe we’re starting it right now…

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Why would we even want to collect them all though?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Why would we even want to collect them all though?

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I’m not sure, but I imagine the writers have some compelling ideas (:

My suspicion is that each shard we collect is gonna be sort of through happenstance. I don’t think it’s our personal want (as players or characters) to collect shards - but more a “story want” that the writers are pointing toward. In order to get us to a final destination where we eventually become Azem, our character will need to pick up and absorb the Azem shards. The Azem shards (and shards in general) were only introduced as a mechanic because there is intent to use them later on in gameplay. Otherwise why even make “shards” the high concept for your story? They’re in the story because we’ll use them at some point.

The planetary shards seem most likely to be used for expansion/gameplay mechanics. The writers can use them to make up new environments and tell stories about new characters.

The Azem shards (and on a grander level, any people shards) are placed there by the writers to collect. No other reason to introduce them in a story. They’re “Chekhov’s shards.” We’re likely gonna do something with them at some point.

If the writers end up deciding not to go down the route of “we’re Azem because time travel reasons” then I could see the shards of Azem being used more like Ardbert - as a contrast to our character. We’ll meet other people in future expansions who are both likes us, and not us.

But if the true endgame really is that “we are the actual Azem but just don’t know it yet (because time travel)” then it seems very likely we’ve got a lot of shard collecting to get done (but honestly, not that much).

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

If we become Azem, would that mean our endgame is to get sundered which eventually results in WoL-us who collects all the other Azem shards and goes back in time to become Azem and get sundered and...

Kinda weird, but I guess Mide and the other dude going back in time to become their own ancestors in Alexander is a similar time loop situation.

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Yeah, I’m thinking something the same too. For the writers it might be an elegant way to end the MSQ for our WOL - so we’re talking many expansions down the road - with us basically looping back to where we started the game (maybe).

But since the Sundering is a sort of a tragedy, I could also see the writers cook up a plot line that lets us somehow reverse/prevent/alter the Sundering, while also keeping our own timeline (and friends) intact. My guess is something like that would involve Alexander - our giant time traveling city waiting in the wings.

To save both the reflections as well as the pre-sundered world - all in one attempt - that sounds like a job for a hero…

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

I’m not sure, but I imagine the writers have some compelling ideas (:

My suspicion is that each shard we collect is gonna be sort of through happenstance. I don’t think it’s our personal want (as players or characters) to collect shards - but more a “story want” that the writers are pointing toward. In order to get us to a final destination where we eventually become Azem, our character will need to pick up and absorb the Azem shards. The Azem shards (and shards in general) were only introduced as a mechanic because there is intent to use them later on in gameplay. Otherwise why even make “shards” the high concept for your story? They’re in the story because we’ll use them at some point.

The planetary shards seem most likely to be used for expansion/gameplay mechanics. The writers can use them to make up new environments and tell stories about new characters.

The Azem shards (and on a grander level, any people shards) are placed there by the writers to collect. No other reason to introduce them in a story. They’re “Chekhov’s shards.” We’re likely gonna do something with them at some point.

If the writers end up deciding not to go down the route of “we’re Azem because time travel reasons” then I could see the shards of Azem being used more like Ardbert - as a contrast to our character. We’ll meet other people in future expansions who a both likes us, and not us.

But if the true endgame really is that “we are the actual Azem but just don’t know it yet (because time travel)” then it seems very likely we’ve got a lot of shard collecting to get done (but honestly, not that much).

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I think before Endwalker this theory would have held some merit...

But the revelations brought on by Dynamis energy and how you need to have an aerthically less dense soul to use it properly, on top of all the moments where we've over come the odds through shear willpower and limit breaks because of dynamis, shows us there isn't a story pull to even have all the shards of Azem rejoined as that would make us weaker than we are now because of our inability to manipulate dynamis as fully rejoined Azem.

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Originally Posted by Kesey

I think before Endwalker this theory would have held some merit...

But the revelations brought on by Dynamis energy and how you need to have an aerthically less dense soul to use it properly, on top of all the moments where we've over come the odds through shear willpower and limit breaks because of dynamis, shows us there isn't a story pull to even have all the shards of Azem rejoined as that would make us weaker than we are now because of our inability to manipulate dynamis as fully rejoined Azem.

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That’s certainly possible, although we could find out the thrust of the story is to find a balance between the two forces. That also seems possible, since so many of the stories have been about the scales of balance being tipped too far in one direction.

Maybe we collect all our shards, and then learn we still need our friends to help us because of their ability to better manipulate dynamis? This is all conjecture of course (:

It depends on how important they consider dynamis now without Meteion. Prior to her existence, the ability to manipulate dynamis wasn't necessary and arguably being a full-fledged Ancient with access to creation magicks would be more powerful.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Why would we even want to collect them all though?

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Even if it's just my own headcanon, I like the idea that eventually my WoL becomes whole before 'returning to the star' to be with their two besties as Hythlodaeus described.

My gil's on the 12 being the first Ancients to discover true immortality. They can really take this story in any direction they'd like to go with it, and I'd wager we might even get a 7 Hells type boss that is like, the one douche canoe who didn't want to be a benevolent immortal.

Their worship may have even been verboten in Ancient society or something. They probably drain aether of other stars like a roided up version of how Astrologians power their skills. Either that or they've got hyper efficient bodies that run like a normal person's but at a god level (I mean the WoL is basically this, yeah?).

All that supposition aside, I'm very interested in what comes next.

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Originally Posted by Shookbeast

That’s certainly possible, although we could find out the thrust of the story is to find a balance between the two forces. That also seems possible, since so many of the stories have been about the scales of balance being tipped too far in one direction.

Maybe we collect all our shards, and then learn we still need our friends to help us because of their ability to better manipulate dynamis? This is all conjecture of course (:

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There are 2 reasons for me to believe we will become Azem: Azem's gender, and Azem telling the future to Themis.

Maybe the next main villain will simply "force" us to rejoin, leading to the fatality of us being whole again, and then going back through time, knowing that nothing can be done without the sundering because we cannot manipulate Dynamis anymore. (that would also explain Azem's carefree attitude during the ancient times)

For example: maybe the villain will want to kill and absorb the souls of the remaining Azem's shards to gain more power, and then killing the avatar would make us whole again.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

There are 2 reasons for me to believe we will become Azem: Azem's gender, and Azem telling the future to Themis.

Maybe the next main villain will simply "force" us to rejoin, leading to the fatality of us being whole again, and then going back through time, knowing that nothing can be done without the sundering because we cannot manipulate Dynamis anymore. (that would also explain Azem's carefree attitude during the ancient times)

For example: maybe the villain will want to kill and absorb the souls of the remaining Azem's shards to gain more power, and then killing the avatar would make us whole again.

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That’s actually a pretty good point. The writers might indeed have plans for Us/Azem because they use pronouns based on our character. If they had a canon Azem in mind (like Azem is definitely Emet’s brother and drives a fire truck to work everyday) then they’d just use the pronouns for that Azem. Instead they made Azem based on us…

And yes, I agree also the writers could speed up our “rejoining” using a villain (or any other plot device) should they want to get this part of the story wrapped up quickly. There were some elements of Endwalker which I thought would take a long time - but the writers made short work of. The same could happen here - and we find ourselves becoming Azem much sooner than anyone thought…

Or they could be using our pronouns for Azem because they don't intend them to appear ever, but do want to make 'it's you' as clear as absolutely possible without showing it.

If that's the plan, it's basically the only option. If you just stuck with male pronouns for Azem you completely destroy the illusion for female player characters that they have any connection at all.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Or they could be using our pronouns for Azem because they don't intend them to appear ever, but do want to make 'it's you' as clear as absolutely possible without showing it.

If that's the plan, it's basically the only option. If you just stuck with male pronouns for Azem you completely destroy the illusion for female player characters that they have any connection at all.

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That’s possible too. If that’s the case, I’m glad they went to the extra length to make the character work for all players. I do hold out hope however, that they went to the extra trouble because they’ve got something planned for us/Azem (:

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

Or they could be using our pronouns for Azem because they don't intend them to appear ever, but do want to make 'it's you' as clear as absolutely possible without showing it.

If that's the plan, it's basically the only option. If you just stuck with male pronouns for Azem you completely destroy the illusion for female player characters that they have any connection at all.

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Eden raid pretty much implied that gender doesn't matter: Mitron was apparently female in the Ancient World, and only got a male body in its future lives.
Plus, as I have said, Azem has knowledge of the future, which is odd.
Before discovering this, I was also on the board of "Azem's gender is just there to show a connection".
I don't think so anymore.
They clearly have a plan for Azem going forward.
But only time will tell what the plan is.

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Originally Posted by Garnix

Eden raid pretty much implied that gender doesn't matter: Mitron was apparently female in the Ancient World, and only got a male body in its future lives.
Plus, as I have said, Azem has knowledge of the future, which is odd.
Before discovering this, I was also on the board of "Azem's gender is just there to show a connection".
I don't think so anymore.
They clearly have a plan for Azem going forward.
But only time will tell what the plan is.

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It's not a matter of 'plausible', it's a matter of the actual connection to oneself, which is kinda the whole point of Azem. Especially during Shadowbringers and its patches, remember that nobody was saying we actually were anything like Azem in any way beyond spirit and vagueries; it was only come Endwalker that people actually started drawing more explicit connections.

You play a male character. Can you honestly say that, if Azem was only ever referred to by female pronouns, that you ever would've thought that the game was saying she was you? Especially given that the Eden evidence you give wasn't just subtext based on the name (Endwalker never uses a pronoun for Mitron, FYI), but also came a patch after all of the Azem talk?