Unpopular Opinion: This new PvP State is horrible

While I like the new animations/combos etc. I heavily dislike the new potencies.
Healer got cut by a lot and made them pretty much useless. They are just weaker DPS now.
All in all it feels more like GW2's system than FFXIV's.

Healers are currently in a spot, where they do seen weak at first, especially SCH, but all of them have a very specific way of playing which makes them very valueable (and even better than another dps if you know how) without being overpowered as they used to be (dont expect me to elaborate on the details, find it out yourself if youre curious).

I always would prefer a mediocre healer over a mediocre dps, simply because by the way they are suppoest to be played.

no idea what u are talking about, games are unbalanced right now because a team have a healer and the other doesnt, that explain just how your opinion is baseless

I was not sure at first whether it's the new mode I don't like or the rework of pvp itself, but now I think both are the problem. CC feels like a RNG head bumping with no thought or clear direction put into it, but honestly I can just simply ignore it and not play this mode. What I can't ignore, however, is how stupid the new pvp meta is. Everything happens so quickly and half of the time you don't even know what's going on and how you died. Something pulled you, something stunned you, something downed you to half hp, then you're slowed aaaand you're dead. Now you engage someone and try to kill them but wait, they just heal to full because everyone has a healing spell they can use up to what, 4 times now? Oh, everyone also have a shield and a cleanse too. At that rate, how about we just make 1 dps, 1 healer and 1 tank for pvp and give them the same skills with slightly changed potencies since right now everyone's a healer, a tank and a dps anyways.

so you only played PvE. nice :)

I think thats also a big thing. I mostly have no clue why I died.
Why can everyone basically heal themself up to 100%.
It's such a weird change that I never experienced in FFXIV.
For me it is truly frustrating. They throw the Tank/Healer/DPS mechanic ouf of the window and make them somehow equally.

Healers are now great peelers with great burst damage every 15-20s or so. It is absolutely nothing compared to before, playing as an aggressive dps is very rewarding now, paradoxal though it may seem. WHM Glare+LB+Misery+Dash does a lot, and you'll often see them topping FL rankings both in kills, damage AND heal now. This is nuts.

In Crystal Conflict Sage has been very good so far, due to the arena being smaller. This allows the LB to shine in terms of damage, topped with double Toxikon+Phlegma AND good survivability when you go melee. It requires to be reactive to heal efficiently though.

In short, healing is nothing like before, in fact we are are some of the best burst dps now.

It's not fun trying to play a healer or caster that actually has to cast only to get chain stunned/silenced/pulled by melee and killed in a split second.

The "blow someone up inside a cc chain" gameplay of Crystalline Conflict is very close to being similar to WoW PVP and anyone who's PVP'd on WoW knows how bad that is.



Is it just me or do the immunity buffs you used to get after being hit by a certain type of CC no longer exist?

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Originally Posted by Lainio

While I like the new animations/combos etc. I heavily dislike the new potencies.
Healer got cut by a lot and made them pretty much useless. They are just weaker DPS now.
All in all it feels more like GW2's system than FFXIV's.

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Its supposed to feel that way. The whole point is to remove role restrictions while giving healers and tanks some flavor of being healer and tank, but overall everyone has the same kit. This was their solution to trying to get pvp to pop faster because the feast had 90+ minute queues.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

Is it just me or do the immunity buffs you used to get after being hit by a certain type of CC no longer exist?

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Yeah those have been removed, so now you can be chained CC'd which given the current state of things, is somewhat necessary since self-healing is very potent but the problem is, you can technically infinitely chain CC back to back, provided you don't stack it if this makes sense.
Obviously the solution is to purify into guard but given how server ticks come into play, you might end up with like 6k in Guard and just end up dying as soon as you come out of it unless someone is playing Paladin to cover you.

I tried to like this mode a lot. But I am settling down to just trying to farm out my mounts and then never touching it again... its most def not for everyone. But I think their goal was not to make it appeal to everyone, its just to make it better than what it was, and its def an improvement.

For a while I was thinking, maybe I am just too old and this is just too fast for me. But I just honestly have no clue half the time on what the fudge is going on on the map. Not to mention there are now afk-ers in normal mode and cheaters... Some people just join in to get their 250 wolfmakr and wait till we lose and then leave... not cool bro.

Honestly this game mode makes me so pissed whenever I play it, I just need to keep reminding myself "this is not all there is to ffxiv, and you can do other things" - but then again, I am really obsessed with farming out mounts... this is so hard for my potato collector brain to manage.

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Originally Posted by Lainio

While I like the new animations/combos etc. I heavily dislike the new potencies.
Healer got cut by a lot and made them pretty much useless. They are just weaker DPS now.
All in all it feels more like GW2's system than FFXIV's.

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Depends which healer you're talking about. WHM is overpowered as hell, everysingle game has atleast one.
The other healers? Sage is really good cuz of its absurd damage. But Astro & Scholar are trash.

But this is THE best the pvp has ever been since it came out. I've never pvped this much before in this game & pvp is usually my primary gameplay in mmorpgs.
Every class felt sluggish as hell & had long ass rotations just to do anything. Imagine if every class had Monks spammable & that was every class previously.
God awful.

Im so happy they fixed pvp. All we need now is a bit of nerf/buffing, fix the cheats & pvp is perfect.
I mean not like cheats didn't exist before, it's just more obvious & rampant now because of CC.

And you can't really argue objectively against the current PVP state. It went from 1 person in Wolfs Den to hundreds. You have thousands of people in each region queueing.
It's more active players in 1 day now than it used to be in 6 months, and thats being nice.
No more revamping needing to be done, just buff/nerf accordingly as needed.

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Originally Posted by Freemind

Every class felt sluggish as hell & had long ass rotations just to do anything.

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Originally Posted by Freemind

Im so happy they fixed pvp.

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They didn't change much in terms of rotations and "sluggishness".
Have you not pvped since HW?

They did break Frontline and Rival Wings though.

The issue is you could still have psuedo "roles" without having dedicated roles if they just balanced it properly, but it's their first part of the revamp so I'm willing to give them a LITTLE more time. Right now it's had a few weeks to settle in and get going and I feel that we now know what a lot of the failures in the system are regarding potencies/kits/etc for things like WHM/WAR/RDM/DRG/SAM/etc.

I will agree it feels a bit like GW2 to me, because it's a separate mode made to allow a player to not get screwed over by not having a healer I think it's a much more "free" mode by comparison. Because you can heal yourself and mitigate if played properly, it feels like you're not screwed by default for not having someone heal you or play their role well enough. On the OPPOSITE side of that spectrum however, you feel you're screwed by default now because you can be a team of 5 dps against a team of WHM/WAR/RDM/SAM/MCH and get obliterated because of the imbalances in the individual classes' kits.

While balancing can come with less "fun" compared to being able to go hog wild like they did this run, I find it really odd that we created roles and the matchmaking "tries" to balance around that while still not acknowledging the huge disparity of the roles in general.

WHM = Simultaneously burst, protect, aoe heal, individual heal, instant castable fast filling LB that is a stun nuke with aoe regen + Damage/mitigation/heal buff for the WHM.
SGE = You can apply dosis barriers every 30s and do some dps if the enemy is stupid enough to not focus you.

One of these things is not like the other. While an argument could be made for SGE's DPS, when you're the "one healer" on the team vs a WHM the balancing feels bad because there aren't any other classes that can fill that "role" as well you can. My feeling was like "oh that's why GNB can junction a healer to balance that out" but the healing from their junction is hilariously bad, requires you not to get stunlocked to use, is bound by a melee combo and radius, and they have no mitigation to assure they can actually pop it off.

I see the a sort of categorization of skills to make this possible:

Mitigation = Keeping yourself/allies from dying.
CC = stun/silence/bind/heavy
Utility = Buffs/Debuffs both to targets and to allies.
DPS = obvious

In a more balanced world to me the roles would be:

TANK = Mitigation/CC
HEALER = Utility/CC
RANGED DPS = DPS/Utility
MELEE DPS = DPS/mitigation
MAGIC = DPS/CC

All of them would still HAVE dps and personal utility, but some would excel where others do less. Right now classes like RDM can both do major damage but at a the blink of an eye heal mitigate and put a stacking shield on themselves and then get out of the situation, including a long range stun. In theory you could still provide more "grey area" between the roles (like DRG being medium class armor and therefore having more tank like abilities) but it needs to balanced. Some kits have literally everything you could need and others have baffling lack of options.

The end result should not be "I'm screwed because I have a GNB/PLD" it should be "I have to adapt how I play because PLD/GNB do x differently than a WAR" and being able to adapt instead of get stomped/denied completely.

I'm quite confident they will balance things out very soon. A CC Chain of 10s+ is a thing of 15 years past in other games. They will most likely nerf some LBs too. White mages, warriors, red mages, and others have too much of everything.

Well, the novelty is wearing out and you start to see how poorly executed everything is. They'd better get to work or soon pvp will become a very niche, almost forgotten thing again.

Where's this confidence come from? Balance was never good before. What's going to change now? We hadn't even gotten a "yeah we're looking into it" post.

I agree as a tournament pvp player. They really butchered the whole pvp mode. Frontline is dead mostly cause of the rework.
I'm sorry developers but your hype for crystal conflict and negligence towards truly the 3 main aspects of pvp
1. Duels[competitive]
2. Frontlines
3. Crystal Conflict

Since it's solely made for a high pace mode and the developers and testers for a fact don't know how to play at a high level, or understand the true role of pvp'ing.

It was expected to be a headless horse kinda deal. I am not trying to be mean to you developers. But you did butcher pvp in its entirety.
1. Lowering the skill ceiling/gap; with Fewer skills(buttons) it raises the floor, and lowered the ceiling
2. [Will come back to it, but it's mostly class/ role respective]
So Yoshi P, and Developers. Good job at not knowing what you were doing. It's very clear to the targeted audience on your "research".

Before anyone even makes a reply to me, make sure of this. One, Rank to me doesn't matter cause last tier I was unranked and beat 95% of the players. Two, dueling 1 v 1 is much more skill based.

I'll add more if need be.

I think it has potential, they just launched with some very stupid ideas. I mean, seriously, who the hell makes a gamemode full of CCs but doesn't add a DR mechanic? You can get stunned back to back. Oh, you're out of purify? Well tough luck. Oh WHM turned you into an Imp? Well have fun being useless for 2 seconds while getting mowed down.

Some job balancing is also extremely questionable, WHMs get their LB super fast and have a broken CC, RDMs are extremely overtuned, SAMs shouldn't give Kuzushi to people that hit them by mistake with AoE since this basically removes the only way to counter their LB(Not attacking them), Machinist having a 5% chance to instakill is just... This one is just extremely dumb... WAR having basically more and better utility than any other tank, basically rendering the others useless, etc.

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Originally Posted by Hysorn

I think it has potential, they just launched with some very stupid ideas. I mean, seriously, who the hell makes a gamemode full of CCs but doesn't add a DR mechanic? You can get stunned back to back. Oh, you're out of purify? Well tough luck. Oh WHM turned you into an Imp? Well have fun being useless for 2 seconds while getting mowed down.

Some job balancing is also extremely questionable, WHMs get their LB super fast and have a broken CC, RDMs are extremely overtuned, SAMs shouldn't give Kuzushi to people that hit them by mistake with AoE since this basically removes the only way to counter their LB(Not attacking them), Machinist having a 5% chance to instakill is just... This one is just extremely dumb... WAR having basically more and better utility than any other tank, basically rendering the others useless, etc.

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Correct on many occasions. RDM is overtuned. Just like last tier. They were not worth fighting 1 v 1.
http://https://media.discordapp.net/...441877733.webp

The core problem is that the client can't support the current pvp mode. Client response and behaviour is clumsy and slow.

That's not really a secret to anyone that did pvp before.

This is also the reason why they will never get cheating under control.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Its supposed to feel that way. The whole point is to remove role restrictions while giving healers and tanks some flavor of being healer and tank, but overall everyone has the same kit. This was their solution to trying to get pvp to pop faster because the feast had 90+ minute queues.

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If only the game had some kind of roulette queing system to get people to do stuff.

The main issues right now are job balance and the usual FFXIV delay linked with the extremely burst and cc-heavy gameplay we have now - nothing feels worse than anticipating a cc chain and enemy burst but the server just says no to you using Guard pre-emptively. Or the amount of times I've been silenced and stunned again immediately after Purifying.

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Originally Posted by NightHour

The "blow someone up inside a cc chain" gameplay of Crystalline Conflict is very close to being similar to WoW PVP and anyone who's PVP'd on WoW knows how bad that is.

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Except in WoW you have potential counterplay by anticipating CC chains and generally more tools than simply your trinket. Not to mention that WoW has way better networking.

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Originally Posted by Sidamel

The core problem is that the client can't support the current pvp mode. Client response and behaviour is clumsy and slow.

That's not really a secret to anyone that did pvp before.

This is also the reason why they will never get cheating under control.

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That's most likely the biggest reason as to why it's never felt as clunky as now. Horrible server tick with huge damage spikes (worse than before and especially noticeable in FL) and a myriad of CCs where timing and purify feel irrelevant. Still having fun but definitely not taking PvP seriously, even more so now than before.

New mode is fun, but heavily unbalanced. I like the leaning into "identity" for the job kits, but removing all my skills felt horrible and I still havent gotten used to it properly. I hope they raise the skill ceiling a little bit because having like 4 attacks just feelsbadman

It's not an unpopular opinion. Most people are on the same page that the new pvp is very much shit.

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Originally Posted by Brixy

It's not an unpopular opinion. Most people are on the same page that the new pvp is very much shit.

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The falafel is pulling no punching. Oof!