New Dancer feels TERRIBLE and weak

Dead in a single stun even with Esuna, barely scratches enemy HP and its damaging move is locked behind a highly limited resource with a long recharge time.

Our Limit break does NOTHING, 2 seconds of charm, the enemy laughs it off or pops their own Esuna.

At this point i feel like a free kill too the enemy team and its NOT FUN SE!

And lets not forget how easy it is to ALWAYS be put on the team of players who stand back and do nothing while the crystals being pushed, or simply get steamrolled by a single player with good stuns and high damage.
If you guys are gonna try more PvP content, at least make the classes balanced and set the que so that a player on a losing streak gets teamed up with players who always win, or yaknow, let us que with a team instead of solo.

I can agree with this but disagree at the same time. I agree because in the first 30-60 seconds, the Dancer doesn't have Limit Break, therefore, I can't be Charmed AND being a ranged DPS, they are not near the crystal. I can disagree because after 30-60 seconds, I can safely assume that Dancer Has their Charm Limit Break, and must be CC'ed and killed immediately. Charm is such a devastating CC when your opponent is getting focused. In an organized group (using voice comms.) this would be lethal to your opponents. But of course, it's solo queue only.

Oh, you do have the option to notify your team that you have Limit Break ready. But it'll be up to them to take advantage of the situation and knowing that the player that used that key bind was a Dancer to begin with.

Yeah all good points, it all comes down too organization. Also, as a dancer I find more often than not im the only one pushing the crystal in groups who dont know what their doing, but when things fall into place with my team, then things work.
1v1 however, Dancer is not going to win, against anything.

As far as Charm goes, the cast time is bad. one stun and you lose you LB, one good team and you are dead before it goes off.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

Yeah all good points, it all comes down too organization. Also, as a dancer I find more often than not im the only one pushing the crystal in groups who dont know what their doing, but when things fall into place with my team, then things work.
1v1 however, Dancer is not going to win, against anything.

As far as Charm goes, the cast time is bad. one stun and you lose you LB, one good team and you are dead before it goes off.

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DNC is a support job. Half of it is boosting their Dance partner, so it shouldn't be strong by itself. As for the LB, just like I do with GNB who also has a channel-like LB, just wait till you get hit by a single CC, Purify it, get the anti-CC buff, dive in, dance the night away(and pray an enemy WHM doesn't turn you into a minion lol).

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Originally Posted by Ixon

DNC is a support job. Half of it is boosting their Dance partner, so it shouldn't be strong by itself. As for the LB, just like I do with GNB who also has a channel-like LB, just wait till you get hit by a single CC, Purify it, get the anti-CC buff, dive in, dance the night away(and pray an enemy WHM doesn't turn you into a minion lol).

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In PvP under the new system, we dont boost our partner.
We do have one short DPS boost for them based on an AOE ability with a long cooldown and of course we keep our ineffective heal share with partner. Both require said person to be alive instead of constantly waiting to respawn, and also require them to be near you... instead of afking half way over the map.

In PvP we are support DPS, without the DPS and support that does next to nothing, especially since nobody seems to know how to pair with a Dancer or more likely, just doesn't care about our none existence PvP buffs, or to focus targets down in the 2 seconds their charm hits... if it hits.

Unlike GNB we also dont have the defense to survive the cast time when being attacked. We can be taken out by a single person in around 3 hits when using our LB or the new Improv style move that does near zero DPS and doesn't provide any form of buff despite its tooltip saying it should.

Support like DNC only works if it has effective skills to use and a partner who cares they are partnered up.

Dancer seems like it needs some love. I don't play it myself, but my friend who plays dancer in pvp said they reduced the range on their attacks, and made the dash sort of clunky. You now need to attack something first. Limit break is underwhelming. I know it can be super effective, but it just doesn't have enough oomph to be exciting to use. I do love the charm animation. It would be neat if it confused the enemy instead, maybe having a list of effects after the charm wears off based on something else in the kit.
I get they are supposed to be somewhere in between the front and the back of the group, but if that is the devs intention for dancer they should give them defensive abilities like a counter attack or meaningful buffs that affect everyone around them.

DNC Charm cannot be removed by purify. Same with Reaper's hysteria. you need to reevaluate how you play the job in PvP, same as the healers.

Wish they would make the ranged dps have more ranged attacks. They reduced it too much.

The fact that people say it's a support but don't realize how bad it's support is.
Fan Dance is the best one. 10% DR. It's only okay, but it's easily the best.
Starfall gives 10% recast buff, but that's really not NEAR as much as you might think. You're lucky if you can shave off two seconds. Maybe.
Saber Dance needs to use two of your 4 dashes, which is where the strength of dancer is supposed to be. So use HALF of your only mobility option, just for a slightly underwhelming nuke and 10% damage buff. 10%, again, not much. Saber dance does 12,000 potency if it hits single target. 10% turns that into... 13,200. It only lasts ten seconds, and again it needs dancers precious mobility to use it.
Curing waltz is actually good. Dashing up to your DP and giving a little more than a recoup. Nice. Good job on this one imo.
Honing dance does no fucking damage, and gives an anemic shield which takes 5 seconds to use. That is only worth using because you legitimately have nothing better to use. It's pathetic. It's BEST use is trying to find invisible ninjas. That's it.
The fucking LB. Oh boy. It sounds nasty, but the cast time is so big you can just leave the aoe, stun the dancer and make them waste their lb, or just fucking kill them outright since they can no longer move or heal. Even if it goes off, a conditional GCD and a half of CC that you're animation locked for a second of. So you need to LB, then IMMEDIATELY honing dance and hope you hit everyone for the four seconds CC, that you are not allowed to take advantage of at all, and then pray to God that your randomly assigned team is smart enough/coordinated enough/ of a proper composition to be able to take advantage of a single button press for free against the enemy. Sometimes, only BARELY a button press if they're early in their GCD spinning.

Dancer is pathetic. It's the worst job in PVP with no contest. They do nothing. Their support is a joke, their damage is worthless, their survivability and kiting potential goes away when you remember every melee has gap closers, CC, or gap closers with CC to immediately catch any dancer trying to run. I have no clue how they tested this and thought it was fine. It's horrible on paper, and horrible in practice.
Dancer's best function, and I wish I was joking, is to dash through enemies to hopefully take their potions away during team fights. That's it.

DNC is borderline melee now. Less than 1/3 the range we used to have, and tanks can pull us from farther than we can actually attack.

My winrate with dancer is by far higher than my 5 other jobs that I play. Dancer does a lot of AOE damage with utility on the side. The LB is great too. saber dance hits for 12k. People need to read their tooltips because the classes don't just play themselves.

you are strongly incorrect Reaper's Hysteria and Dancer's charm can be purified. As a BLM I have destroyed each attempt to counter my LB I mostly destroy them with a foul.

It's kind of hilarious they made the DNC range so short.

Imo the jobs that need buffs the most are:
1. BLM
2. DNC
3. GNB

Of those three, I main GNB so I am a little biased, but I honestly think these three jobs are throwing. When I queue up as GNB in Platinum, I feel like I'm borderline throwing.
When I see a BLM or DNC in the opposing team (regardless of what job I myself am playing), I feel like I'm not threatened by them at all.

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Originally Posted by Ocelittelot

you are strongly incorrect Reaper's Hysteria and Dancer's charm can be purified. As a BLM I have destroyed each attempt to counter my LB I mostly destroy them with a foul.

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No DNC and RPR LB can't be cleansed at all in PVP. DNC you have time to use a mvoement to get awawy so they can't increase the charm duration. Reaper LB debuff duration is only 2 seconds and is ins't

Dancer is a job depends on one's skill
It is either you are a God or you are a punchbag.
It does not need a buff unless their LB is changed or can be purify.
Yes, you CAN NOT PURIFY Reaper's Hysteria and DNC's LB

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Dancer is a job depends on one's skill
It is either you are a God or you are a punchbag.
It does not need a buff unless their LB is changed or can be purify.
Yes, you CAN NOT PURIFY Reaper's Hysteria and DNC's LB

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I have seen DNC take over a game because their PLD has kept them alive. As if with any job who can be kept alive they can deal damage and get their LB quickly. DNC to me feels so team relient

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Originally Posted by Rael_Norende

Imo the jobs that need buffs the most are:
1. BLM
2. DNC
3. GNB

Of those three, I main GNB so I am a little biased, but I honestly think these three jobs are throwing. When I queue up as GNB in Platinum, I feel like I'm borderline throwing.
When I see a BLM or DNC in the opposing team (regardless of what job I myself am playing), I feel like I'm not threatened by them at all.

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BLM doesn't need a buff they jstu got one in teh last rotation of PVP buffs. IF they buff it more then they should lose their umbral deep freeze

DNC is a peculiar job with no clearly cut out role (ranged or melee), with a simple toolkit that doesn't clearly lays out a path for the player to follow intuitively and as a result it becomes a job where the difficulty doesn't lie in mastering the kit, but in the subtleties of knowing what to do with it and how to play it. This is exactly why the job underperforms at lower ranks because most people have no clue what to do with it, and this combines poorly with the fact that its LB is not only the most demanding to execute (requires to expose yourself and stand still with no defense whatsover for ages, keep an eye open for hard counters, keep an eye open for the LB state of every other player in the game, be a good judge if your team is actually gonna be able to take advantage of your LB, and many more factors), but also that at low ranks people have no idea of what a coordinated burst is and will rarely fully take advantage of it anyway, often resulting in the LB just flopping alone.

This results in the exact opposite of SAM, which is a job that gets a lot of results at lower ranks because of its big hits and its LB, where in counterpart it underperforms at higher level: DNC sucks as low level and works very well at higher level provided the player knows what they're doing. On DNC at low level you need to literally abuse cleaves, AOE and Honing to apply so much pressure on people that have no positioning awareness to literally make up for your LB being literally gambling on whether your team is going to take advantage of it or not.

I wish I can convince you otherwise with how well dancer is. However, many are turned off by the design of it. Also it is one of those few classes that can get shafted before the limit break takes takes effect due to the 1 sec delay (GNB has it the worst.). I'm sorry that the class does not appeal to you. Probably would have been a bit better if DNC's range was able to match the other range classes. Just saying.

That being said, compared to SAM, SCH, and SMN, I had an oddly easy time climbing with DNC. Homing Dance is completely busted. Just pray that you do not face off against a team of pure range classes.

I have lost count of the number of times I've been in a Frontlines engagement and been burned down because I couldn't do anything due to DNC LB. It can't be cleansed or guarded against, all you can do is hope you have healing and shields.

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Originally Posted by Mercury_Grey

BLM doesn't need a buff they jstu got one in teh last rotation of PVP buffs. IF they buff it more then they should lose their umbral deep freeze

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Umbral Deep Freeze requires either being hit with ice and then Paradox (single target only) and then Superflare OR being hit by Freeze 3 times (hard to do at range) and then being hit by Superflare. And on top of all that there's functionally very little difference between lv2 Bind and lv3 Deep Freeze. And both can be cleansed. If anything Deep Freeze needs a buff.

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Originally Posted by Sililos

Dead in a single stun even with Esuna, barely scratches enemy HP and its damaging move is locked behind a highly limited resource with a long recharge time.

Our Limit break does NOTHING, 2 seconds of charm, the enemy laughs it off or pops their own Esuna.

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Tell everyone that you don’t know how to play DNC in PvP without telling everyone that you don’t know how to play DNC in PvP.

BTW, it’s called purify and nobody can “purify” DNC LB. And no, saber dance is not your main damaging move lol. Did you know that you can also extend your LB to 4 seconds? That’s 4 seconds of enemies losing the ability to do ANY action. Imagine that.

I bet you probably dance partner ranged jobs also.

Maybe try reading the Job action tooltips for the Job you’re playing before saying a Job is trash. Maybe the Job is fine and it’s 100% a player issue.

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Originally Posted by Mercury_Grey

I have seen DNC take over a game because their PLD has kept them alive. As if with any job who can be kept alive they can deal damage and get their LB quickly. DNC to me feels so team relient

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It is and that is what makes DNC one of the strongest under current PvP environment.
Entire Frontline and CC is team-oriented and one man army is a thing of the past.
If a player is unable to accept the fact DNC is a support, this player is playing the wrong job

Wow, talk about a necrobump.

DNC has to be played somewhat differently between Crystalline and FL (but then again, so do several other jobs). It's shorter range takes some getting used to, but that's the trade-off to having an instant "regular" GCD without reducing your speed like BRD and MCH. It'll always be more of a support job in both, but in Crystalline it still has a respectable burst and makes for a good pursuer to finish-off runners.

Thanks to melee's huge defense bonus modifiers in FL and the ability to run back into a mob of 10+ teammates; they're not as threatening. Because of that, DNC has to be played way more opportunistically in FL, using En Avant to zip in and out of range and carefully picking targets they can feasibly (helping) kill while avoiding being picked-out to kill themselves. The reason why DNC seems like such a bad job for FL to some people is because it demands an awareness and good judgement that most people queuing up for it don't have, and that many DNC's in FL are borderline useless and just standing in place until they're noticed for being too exposed.

So then we have their LB, which quite frankly, is dictated by how competent their team is, not by whenever they feel like using it- which is a death sentence. It's an incredible LB in FL if used with a team capitalizing on it, or used while a team is making a big push. The biggest problem is most teams aren't organized enough to give many opportunities, so many DNCs end up sitting on it or get antsy and use it at stupid times and present themselves as free kills. This is why it works with DRK's meta, because it gives them a directed spot to use it, and the cover of the chaos created by people scrambling to survive or get out a DRK draw-in. Absent of a murderball, DNC's LB requires (again) good judgement and awareness to get any significant use out of.

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

I wish I can convince you otherwise with how well dancer is. However, many are turned off by the design of it. Also it is one of those few classes that can get shafted before the limit break takes takes effect due to the 1 sec delay (GNB has it the worst.). I'm sorry that the class does not appeal to you. Probably would have been a bit better if DNC's range was able to match the other range classes. Just saying.

That being said, compared to SAM, SCH, and SMN, I had an oddly easy time climbing with DNC. Homing Dance is completely busted. Just pray that you do not face off against a team of pure range classes.

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DNC, like most melee DPS, eats any ranged for breakfast. It can even eat some melees for breakfast and will probably outlive and outdamage most DPS jobs in the game with the exception of a few (in the context of skirmishing and 1v1 ratting/pursuing). If I see a full ranged team facing me as a DNC, I smile with glee. In fact that's what I love with this job, it doesn't care what it is facing, it can fly away, it's tough, it deals damage. The only one thing I fear is Miracle of Nature: you can't do anything about it before killing the WHM.

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Originally Posted by Valence

DNC, like most melee DPS, eats any ranged for breakfast. It can even eat some melees for breakfast and will probably outlive and outdamage most DPS jobs in the game with the exception of a few (in the context of skirmishing and 1v1 ratting/pursuing). If I see a full ranged team facing me as a DNC, I smile with glee. In fact that's what I love with this job, it doesn't care what it is facing, it can fly away, it's tough, it deals damage. The only one thing I fear is Miracle of Nature: you can't do anything about it before killing the WHM.

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We must be playing the class differently lol. I would love to see how you play, because compared to you loving that comp I completely despise it especially at the top level where most top players are spamming range classes. DPS wise it feels like a 4v5 to me.

1v1s are fine. It's grouping that I have trouble with. If I decide to follow my melee or tank behind to put pressure on that comp the other team isn't shooting them: they're sniping me as soon as I get within shooting distance. So I'm usually forced to back away before I can even get a 2nd auto off, dashes or not. Towards diamond I'm usually forced to play without the reliance of Homing Dance while I don't have an LB against that comp. I'm not exactly sure how to counter without a corner to play around.

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Originally Posted by Alyko

I have lost count of the number of times I've been in a Frontlines engagement and been burned down because I couldn't do anything due to DNC LB. It can't be cleansed or guarded against, all you can do is hope you have healing and shields.





Umbral Deep Freeze requires either being hit with ice and then Paradox (single target only) and then Superflare OR being hit by Freeze 3 times (hard to do at range) and then being hit by Superflare. And on top of all that there's functionally very little difference between lv2 Bind and lv3 Deep Freeze. And both can be cleansed. If anything Deep Freeze needs a buff.

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BLM has good range to use thier freeze 3 times and super flare, but the fact they have a LB that gives them damage reduction ontop of their burst that gives a shield. THey should lose one of their toold uring LB either the deep freeze or bunrst so they are forced to pick. Shoul di cc then LB or use my burst before i LB

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

It is and that is what makes DNC one of the strongest under current PvP environment.
Entire Frontline and CC is team-oriented and one man army is a thing of the past.
If a player is unable to accept the fact DNC is a support, this player is playing the wrong job

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Or the DNC who refuses to use thier dancer partner skill. A lot of DNC players undersell how good a group heal could be with cure sombre i think its called. I don't remember all the skills of DNC in pvp I never touched it in PVP besides like twice. They can even use thier dance partner on the tnak to support them

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Originally Posted by Mistress_Irika

We must be playing the class differently lol. I would love to see how you play, because compared to you loving that comp I completely despise it especially at the top level where most top players are spamming range classes. DPS wise it feels like a 4v5 to me.

1v1s are fine. It's grouping that I have trouble with. If I decide to follow my melee or tank behind to put pressure on that comp the other team isn't shooting them: they're sniping me as soon as I get within shooting distance. So I'm usually forced to back away before I can even get a 2nd auto off, dashes or not. Towards diamond I'm usually forced to play without the reliance of Homing Dance while I don't have an LB against that comp. I'm not exactly sure how to counter without a corner to play around.

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I don't know what happens on NA. Meeles are mildly meta on EU. Any team with more meeles in my experience holds an advantage.

But if you are the only acting melee then you should probably not go alone ahead.

(Disclaimer: I haven't actually played ranked with dancer yet. So my opinion is purely based on my experience in casual games. Maybe more experienced players will disagree with me.)

I actually really like dancer's current kit, minus the short range, and think you can be quite impactful. In my humble (non-expert) opinion if the range was improved dancer would feel like a very well-rounded class to me.
(Though obviously I won't complain if they buff its buffs. But its general playstyle I really enjoy.)

It can be very team-dependant, that's true, esp. when it comes to utilising your burst effectively but that issue is not unique to dancers. Many healers (esp. Ast) have the same problem, yet I still think their kits are fine.
I think that's just an inherent problem of more support-oriented jobs but I don't think that should mean that this job archetype/playstyle can't exist/thrive in PvP.

I assume at higher levels, when players are more skilled and there's better team coordination classes like dancer or ast can really shine (as supported by that JPN meta tier list I guess).

But nevertheless even in casuals I think it's still really fun and imo you can contribute meaningfully to your team's performance.

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But I agree I really, really dislike the short range.

I guess the reasoning is your increased mobility and your (slightly) higher HP pool but I don't think those factors fully counter the disadvantage of that truly short range.
So to me there's an imbalance between the risk and the reward.

Even with good positioning you are a much bigger/easier target than other ranged classes without the payoff being proportional to that drawback I think.

I can live with having shorter range than other ranged classes but imo it could be more than we have now.
It's barely above melee whereas with bard, mch and casters I can stand miles away.

At the end of the day I still am a ranged classes and I would like my kit to reflect that.
Right now I really feel like a slippery melee.

DNC is a lot stronger than it appears. Fan Dance technically affords a 10% mitigation which should put you at an effective HP of 60k. Honing, while it can bite you in the ass if used at the improper time, can also make you tougher. Curing Waltz is like a heal on regen healers and will add on top of recuperate. The dashes makes the job virtually impossible to catch unless out of resources or just caught pants down with a bad honing or LB. Attacks have no cast time and if they had 25y range I feel it would be a little too strong. On top of it it kinda hints at how one should play the job, which means, not in the backline, because it can support and sustain a lot better at mid range or even in the frontline. It's also a superb chaser and if you could hit targets from 25y while zooming unimpeded without any cast times behind them like that, I think that would be a little too much.

15y attack is still on an entirely different world than melees' 5 yalms.

Those are good points. I guess I still need to figure out its proper rhythm at close or mid range then because I struggle making good escapes/recoveries when I get too close to the enemy group. I'll try to play it more like you describe and see if I can understand its flow better.

Also wanted to add that unless you're literally bleeding all over with no resources left at all, if a melee catches you when you're retreating and already in your backlines, DNC is a job that is perfectly capable to contend almost indefinitely with all melee DPS. All they'll do is lose time, your gap closers will recharge, and the higher the chances over time for your allies to notice and come punish the player chasing you. That's why at a competent level nobody bothers chasing dancers, it's a (dangerous) waste of time.

The real danger is getting immediately bursted and obliterated as soon as you peek in with a LB ready.