Can we not have chance based Instant death in PvP?

Just rework Chain Saw to be a conditional instant kill like the two Limit Breaks. Just the idea of a couple of MCH fishing for ranged aoe instant death procs on bottlenecks every 40 seconds is kind of stupid.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they decided to make the RNG instakill a thing when as far as I can tell, there's no other significant RNG on PvP abilities in general. The chance is too low to be practical, but is potentially game-changing if it actually triggers which is not good.

Making Analysis turn it into an execute that just finishes off low HP targets but on a stricter threshold then NIN's LB (Like sub 15-20% HP) would've made much more sense and have a practical application as another means of getting around non-Guard mitigations and death prevention mechanics.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Yeah, I'm not sure why they decided to make the RNG instakill a thing when as far as I can tell, there's no other significant RNG on PvP abilities in general. The chance is too low to be practical, but is potentially game-changing if it actually triggers which is not good.

Making Analysis turn it into an execute that just finishes off low HP targets but on a stricter threshold then NIN's LB (Like sub 15-20% HP) would've made much more sense and have a practical application as another means of getting around non-Guard mitigations and death prevention mechanics.

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I can probably tell you the reason. It's because that is how Chain Saw used to work on the old games, kind of like a Horn Drill from Pokemon where you fished for Insta-Kills on it.

Not defending it, though, it seems exactly as horrible as you guys are making it out to be... What, am I supposed to KNOW this shit is coming and Guard Up when I see it? Or just walk with constant Barriers whenever I see a MCH? What is my counter-play against "Oh, the guy rolled the Instant-Kill" exactly, do I pray harder?

And sometimes the MCH himself won't even notice, he'll just sit there fishing for finishers and be disapointed a lot, laugh a bit when he finishes a target (Or maybe he gets the one target that was Guarding) and nobody is happy.

It's not as problematic as it could be due to the instakill chance only being active while the Analysis buff is active.

Though having to actively choose to roll for that 5% chance over doubled Drill potency or the Air Anchor stun is still confusing because there's almost no situation where it could be considered remotely practical outside of mass AoE scenarios in frontlines or a desperate attempt to turn a game around at the last moment.

It's just kind of...there as a silly nod to FFVI's Chain Saw that really doesn't have a place in a competitive mode. Low RNG procs like it tare most prone to either being ignored entirely and used for memetic clip footage.

RNG insta kill on a low, low, low, chance is fine. The text is a bit misleading, but IF they want the chance at the insta kill they HAVE to burn Analysis for it. So they are gambling on the chance of an insta kill for the consistency of let's say increased Drill damage. Not to mention it's 100% of your HP as damage, so things like Shields, mitigations, damage downs on the MCH, all affect this.

Redesign ito be an aoe damage taken increase or something
It's pretty stupid to just have the chance ot win a team fight on rng

i love stuff like this adds flavour to the job
also it's like 3% chance pretty darn low

OR stop asking for more bland job design. If you want boring, homogeneous jobs go play PvE. lol
This is exactly why we can't have nice things.

RNG is not good job design in an environment that is 99% devoid of it.

Chance-based mechanics are almost universally hated in competitive environments that are not specifically balanced around them, and sometimes even ones that do still impose restrictions (IE, instakill moves in Pokemon being straight up banned in basically all competitive formats, sometimes even in the game itself).

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

RNG is not good job design in an environment that is 99% devoid of it.

Chance-based mechanics are almost universally hated in competitive environments that are not specifically balanced around them, and sometimes even ones that do still impose restrictions (IE, instakill moves in Pokemon being straight up banned in basically all competitive formats, sometimes even in the game itself).

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thoughts on crits then?

I've been playing around with it on Frontlines and the chance popped all of ONCE for me in 11 matches. And that's because I keep throwing it in crowds of people (Which is extremely risky for a squishy holding any ammount of Battle Highs).

So don't worry, the chance is too small, you're infinitely more likely to get counter-killed by a Samurai LB or be part of a Ninja kill-streak.

I think the instant death chance should stay. RNG elements are part of the flavour which PvP gives and the actual "issue" is more of a "you-problem" if anything.

The People in this community arent used to this kind of stuff, especially when youre coming from raiding which is literally the opposite end of the stick.

The MCH LB might sound cheesy on paper, but if you pay close attention then you notice on how predictable it actually is in practice which is a fair enough weakness.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

thoughts on crits then?

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Crits are fine because you can recover from them and everyone has them. Abilities that cause instadeath with no way to counterplay is not comparable

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Originally Posted by Anhra

I think the instant death chance should stay. RNG elements are part of the flavour which PvP gives and the actual "issue" is more of a "you-problem" if anything.

The People in this community arent used to this kind of stuff, especially when youre coming from raiding which is literally the opposite end of the stick.

The MCH LB might sound cheesy on paper, but if you pay close attention then you notice on how predictable it actually is in practice which is a fair enough weakness.

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...It's not a limit break. It's an ability that comes around every 40 seconds and comes out instantly. I was comparing a basic (buffed) ability of the Machinist to two actual Limit Breaks.
And aside from AST cards, how many other actual RNG effects are there in PvP?

The instant kill chance is indeed a nod to Edgar's Chainsaw, but you guys know what would have been a better nod to Edgar's Chain saw? If analyzed Chain Saw instead caused the Machinist to dash up to the target for spinning Chain saw melee combo goodness that would completely work in PvP as it's opt in.

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Originally Posted by Atmaweapon510

...It's not a limit break. It's an ability that comes around every 40 seconds and comes out instantly. I was comparing a basic (buffed) ability of the Machinist to two actual Limit Breaks.

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It really doesn't come out every 40 secs... It SHOULD come out every 40 and I've been trying to sustain that number on the regular, but Bioblaster forces you to close in as a squishy ranged class in order to get the machinery rotation going so it's more like... Every minute or more?

Analysis on it, though, it's a no brainer. You get more analysis than you can spend because of the Bioblaster block, so you can pretty much guarantee that every Chainsaw is Primed just for the giggles, you'll still have Analysis for Drill and Air Anchor.