PVP 6.1

Everyone is either happy or scratching their heads about the PVE changes. Can we talk about the pvp changes? I’m so excited. Each job feels very unique and flavourful in their own right.

So if you’re going to indulge in pvp. What job/jobs are you gonna play/main?

Frontlines are gonna be so insane with these new changes. 24 people

It really does look interesting. I'm anxious to try it out. I worry though that like with PVE, some jobs are quickly going to become the "meta".

I really feel like Machinist needs a hug in PVP and PVE.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

It really does look interesting. I'm anxious to try it out. I worry though that like with PVE, some jobs are quickly going to become the "meta".

I really feel like Machinist needs a hug in PVP and PVE.

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Haha I think you’re right about Machinist for sure but it does seem like they gave every job some very OP abilities so I think every job will be quite viable. I’m a a healer main in pvp so I’ll definitely be playing Astro but Sch does look very utility heavy and I love those kinda jobs.

Too early to really say anything, I can barely wrap my head around these new tooltips, I’m gonna need to spend a few hours in wolves den fixing up hotbars and seeing how it all fits together.

There are a few details we can’t really get right now, the potency numbers for example are meaningless since they’re adjusting Hp and mp values for pvp so we don’t really know what these potencies mean, MCH LB being 36k potency for example, is that just a free one shot? We won’t know until we get in there. We also don’t know things like how fast LB generation will be, since the LB seems central to some jobs kits like reaper it’s entirely possible the LBs will fill up very quickly.

But I will say I’m excited to try them out, these job kits look incredibly unique, fun and most importantly different to anything we’ve had before. A lot of jobs look like they’re going to feel more fun to play in pvp than in pve right now, like SCH I’m loving the looks of this system where you can choose to either buff a healing spell or a dps spell like deciding to use deployment tactics on either adlo or bio, that’s the kind of gameplay I wanted to see for SCH in pve before the dumbing down of healer jobs.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Too early to really say anything, I can barely wrap my head around these new tooltips, I’m gonna need to spend a few hours in wolves den fixing up hotbars and seeing how it all fits together.

There are a few details we can’t really get right now, the potency numbers for example are meaningless since they’re adjusting Hp and mp values for pvp so we don’t really know what these potencies mean, MCH LB being 36k potency for example, is that just a free one shot? We won’t know until we get in there. We also don’t know things like how fast LB generation will be, since the LB seems central to some jobs kits like reaper it’s entirely possible the LBs will fill up very quickly.

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The potencies are 1 to 1. If it says 36,000 damage, it means 36,000 before damage ups, vuln up, damage downs, and mitigation. There USED to be a 5% swing up and down, but it seems they got rid of that. LB generation "appears" to be job per job, as in the jobs with one shot potential or bigger impact "should" charge slower than others.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

There are a few details we can’t really get right now, the potency numbers for example are meaningless since they’re adjusting Hp and mp values for pvp so we don’t really know what these potencies mean, MCH LB being 36k potency for example, is that just a free one shot? We won’t know until we get in there. We also don’t know things like how fast LB generation will be, since the LB seems central to some jobs kits like reaper it’s entirely possible the LBs will fill up very quickly.

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We have some info from the live letter where they showed the new mode, got to see LB timers (45-90 secs depending on jobs) and some HP values. Of course it could be changed since the PLL, but should give some indication.
PLD/DRK 60k HP, WHM 51k HP, SAM/RPR/DRK 58,5K HP, RDM 51k HP, BLM 48K HP, DNC 54K HP, NIN 57k HP.

Looking at this, don't go near an LB-ready MCH if you're at 50% HP, and don't touch an LB-ready SAM. SGE LB looks interesting, could be very strong both as a defensive tool when you try to capture a point or offensive to punish enemies on a point.

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

We have some info from the live letter where they showed the new mode, got to see LB timers (45-90 secs depending on jobs) and some HP values. Of course it could be changed since the PLL, but should give some indication.
PLD/DRK 60k HP, WHM 51k HP, SAM/RPR/DRK 58,5K HP, RDM 51k HP, BLM 48K HP, DNC 54K HP, NIN 57k HP.

Looking at this, don't go near an LB-ready MCH if you're at 50% HP, and don't touch an LB-ready SAM. SGE LB looks interesting, could be very strong both as a defensive tool when you try to capture a point or offensive to punish enemies on a point.

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Mch LB is 50y. Not sure we could escape even if we wanted to. They’ve become snipers.

I think it's funny that SAM could theoretically one-shot a whole team with Chiten and their LB. It's a small AoE and deals 100% HP damage if the target has been countered with Chiten.

That's not the only wacky thing I'm looking forward to, but it is one of the most shocking possibilities.

Looking at RPR, they got an interesting combo that takes a bit of set-up but can kill near all non-tanks without using LB.
Death Warrant compiles all damage you deal a target and store 50% of it, 7 seconds duration.
Fire off maxed Plentiful Harvest (20k WS), Grim Swathe (4k ability), Soul Slice/Gibbet/Gallows (8k WS), Harvest Moon (4k ability), total 36k damage over 2 GCD plus the 50% for a total of 54k damage.

SAM also got a nice combo of 2 seconds stun into Ogi (12k ST) and Kaeshi (12k ST) for 24k damage every 20 seconds.

Looking at the job changes, it seems like the focus was 100% on crystal conflict. Understandable as it's the new big thing, but, imo, from FL perspective, there were room for improvement, but worked good as it was.

But we'll see. Perhaps crystal conflict will be the PvP change to ff14 we never knew we needed?

Only red flag for me is the 3% instakill chance on Chain Saw... Very strange to have RNG when they have otherwise reduced RNG. Otherwise, a lot of interesting changes I would like to explore. By cutting back on spammable ranged attacks on melee, oddly enough I am more interested in MNK in FL now.

Dancer attacks range at 15y is awful.

They probably imagined balance reason or something, but the ranged skills in the whole game is 25y, so it just feel awful.

Astrologian has an important spell that copies the last spell you cast. Currently every ability dispels this effect from you stopping you from using Double Cast. You cannot react with potions/cards/any other important spell or else you lose your proc and you will have to wait for spells like heals to return from CD. Is this an deliberate choice? :p

Job diversity and fun abilities over raw numbers in my XIV? Am I dead? lol Sounds pretty cool so far.

I've been doing primarily frontline, and it has been a complete dumpster fire. People getting one-shot, healing destroyed...my sage has absolutely zero direct heals anymore(nothing at all to cast on anyone not in the group), and the only thing my WHM can use on anyone not directly in my group is cure...with 2 charges...on a 15 second recharge. I seriously feel like playing a dedicated healer is completely pointless now. If they didn't want people playing frontline anymore they should have just removed it from the game.

The original setup wasn't perfect but at least it was servicable. This is complete garbage. Don't even get me started on the battlepass-style rewards system.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

I've been doing primarily frontline, and it has been a complete dumpster fire. People getting one-shot, healing destroyed...my sage has absolutely zero direct heals anymore(nothing at all to cast on anyone not in the group), and the only thing my WHM can use on anyone not directly in my group is cure...with 2 charges...on a 15 second recharge. I seriously feel like playing a dedicated healer is completely pointless now. If they didn't want people playing frontline anymore they should have just removed it from the game.

The original setup wasn't perfect but at least it was servicable. This is complete garbage. Don't even get me started on the battlepass-style rewards system.

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I feel this exactly, I've basically just played whm exclusively in pvp and now that everyone is a healer I just feel like a buff bot. The new tools like the polymorph are cool but I wish we retained some healing rather than 2 charges of a heal which are weaker than recuperate....

I'm happy that heals have been neutered. MMOs designed around the tank/heal/dps trinity have always struggled with pvp because healing changes the equation so much. There's a reason practically all successful competitive games eschew a pure healer role.

Strong healing turns fights into boring sustain-fests where extreme burst damage is needed to get any kill. Solo queue team games aren't a great environment to find the coordination needed for that, which just leads to frustration for everyone. It puts heavy responsibility on the healer for the success of the team, leading to most people being afraid to play it, and the few that do getting tons of hate thrown their way.

It just doesn't make for fun gameplay. Addressing this issue is one of the best decisions they could've made for pvp, and the popularity of CC is proof of that.

Don't compare CC with frontlines. Things that work fine in CC, don't work automatically fine in frontlines and vice versa.

Further your statement about games that don't support healer roles are competitive I completely disagree with. They are just mostly burst down festivals like we see in FPS.
That doesn't mean you don't need skill to be successful in such environment but they shouldn't be compared to begin with. It's simply different.

That MMOs always struggled with pvp is due to classes and their skillset. It quickly gets very complex and most players simply struggle with it.

However I don't deny that for casuals the current PvP is most likely more enjoyable.
In general we need to wait a few more weeks before a final conclusion can be done.

Im glad about the new changes overall. It was good enough reason for me to resub again and as long as they dont go full pepega with the design by listening to the wrong kind of People, PvP in FFXIV will finally move towards a better future.

If i had to say anything, then its that it would be great if there would be some sort of customisation ontop of the already existing Skills, like selectable Passives OR additional Skills that can replace existing ones.