Overhealing done with Holy Spirit giving a damage shield

Can overhealing done with Holy Spirit and Holy Circle give a damage shield instead of healing you to avoid it's heal being thrown away.

This skill's healing is very powerful yet very hard to coordinate with your healer in pugs to get the most out of it and it feels very bad to waste if your healer throws an aetherflow or lily heal your way just before your requiescat window when it could have been better spent healing your party members instead.

Our tank counterpart warrior has even stronger healing and they get to choose when all of their abilties go off to maximize efficiency. Paladins are at the mercy of whenever holy spirit lines up in their 60 second window and it might not always be the most convenient. I don't think this part should change however since static and consistent loops have always been apart of the class (atleast since I started played) and keeps us a little different from warrior. Holy Spirit giving a damage shield if it would otherwise overheal could be a smart yet effective bandaid fix to the one small quirk I dislike with endwalker paladin.

Very good idea, also make Intervene transfer your current shield to the target much like GNB's Heart of Stone/Corundrum with Brutal Shell. It would fit the similar themes of PLD/GNB they currently share nicely.

Funny that there is a gigantic thread where tanks claim its herasy to say they have too much healing, and then this pops up complaining that a tanks overhealing isn't useful to them.

Or maybe we can just stop making every tank a clone of each other. Wouldn't that be awesome!

A bigger thing would be Holy Spirit/Circle, confetti having the cure potency by default, and not require the 84 trait.
It would make duties much better for pld for a lot more content.

As of right now it feels bad tanking all throughout the game and then at 82/84 BAM PLD suddenly feelsgoodman

And then delete clemency, give PLD essential dignity but holy flavored at 58, and change the 84 trait to give our new holy dignity a second charge.
:thumb:

if you're overhealing with those then chances are the shield is going to be equally as useless. a preemptive overheal if you would.

Genuine question: why does overhealing matter to you?

I don't get why this needs to be brought up. You could argue that it's good to have all this healing around. Sure, healers want to do something other than press their one DPS button all the time, but on the other hand it feels like that's what they rather be doing than babysitting health bars.

If "tank healing is too high" and "drk squishy" then what is the middle ground?

Either the overhealing isn't a problem or you are blowing big mitigations during req phase when the self-healing would be enough to keep you stable. The game shouldn't refund all the EHP you lose because of bad mitigation strategy, tanking is simple enough as it is.

Only if you're willing to balance it down accordingly. It's tuned as it is in largely because its timing is unreliable.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Funny that there is a gigantic thread where tanks claim its herasy to say they have too much healing, and then this pops up complaining that a tanks overhealing isn't useful to them.

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This entirely, if anything I think they need to remove ALL tank self healing and designate a self healing style to 1 tank while reducing the number of mitigations it has compared to other tanks. So they get at least some unique flair back into this role.

Well I'd say WAR's already got dibs on that but especially with 6.1 PLD's not too far behind. Thought it was funny they thought it needed even more self-healing tbh.

To be fair, thematically PLD SHOULD be the tank with the most heals being a Holy Warrior and all.

Just my opinion of course, and yes I do still love my Unga Bunga WAR just don't see why it needs all that healing thematically.

If anything boosting it's damage reduction would have made more sense, shrugging off damage with anger and force of will.

The idea of Warrior increasing its max HP as his way of mitigating damage was quite fun to me in concept. Though I imagine how it would make it fairly hard to heal when the healer's spells aren't % based.
So I imagine self heal is a close second, though barrier would fit the "temp HP" idea too. But then what to make of DRK for their defensive quirk ?
Very often all types of defense can be made to fit one of the tanks, or at least several of them. I kind of liked the idea of:
PLD: Strong flat damage mitigation+blocking, and on demand powerful healing (so little to none heal attached to DPS rotation)
WAR: Buffed max HP, be it via trait and/or defensive cooldowns, and self heal during burst. (big anger contract muscles into stopping bleeding)
DRK: Self protection through dark magic, barriers and negative effects against ennemies (damage down, blind, slow and barriers on himself)
GNB: Versatile all rounder, has some healing/regen, bits of barrier, some block/parry skills.

Of course I know some of those aren't possible anymore xD

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

The idea of Warrior increasing its max HP as his way of mitigating damage was quite fun to me in concept. Though I imagine how it would make it fairly hard to heal when the healer's spells aren't % based.
So I imagine self heal is a close second, though barrier would fit the "temp HP" idea too. But then what to make of DRK for their defensive quirk ?
Very often all types of defense can be made to fit one of the tanks, or at least several of them. I kind of liked the idea of:
PLD: Strong flat damage mitigation+blocking, and on demand powerful healing (so little to none heal attached to DPS rotation)
WAR: Buffed max HP, be it via trait and/or defensive cooldowns, and self heal during burst. (big anger contract muscles into stopping bleeding)
DRK: Self protection through dark magic, barriers and negative effects against ennemies (damage down, blind, slow and barriers on himself)
GNB: Versatile all rounder, has some healing/regen, bits of barrier, some block/parry skills.

Of course I know some of those aren't possible anymore xD

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When WAR was an HP tank, they had a buff associated with defiance (if i remember correctly) that passively increased the healing they received. So healing a WAR back up to full wasn't as hard as you might think (outside cleric stance XD). I've always held hope that they'd bring back tank identity cause tanking back in HW was so much for fun and rewarding.

Oh, that's neat that they had thought of that.
Then yeah, go for it.
DRK applying debuff might be too strong but then just make it "target's damage inflincted to you or someone affected by TBN is reduced by 15% for 10 seconds" and stuff like that. Blind and slow likely won't be useful against stuff other than adds but still ! That would be a neat advantage for add phases and 24 man raids with lots of trashmobs.

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Originally Posted by Kalaam

Oh, that's neat that they had thought of that.
Then yeah, go for it.
DRK applying debuff might be too strong but then just make it "target's damage inflincted to you or someone affected by TBN is reduced by 15% for 10 seconds" and stuff like that. Blind and slow likely won't be useful against stuff other than adds but still ! That would be a neat advantage for add phases and 24 man raids with lots of trashmobs.

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What would be more fun with dark knight would to be bring back Dark Arts and instead of flood/edge spam, use mana instead to augment skills with dark arts. Dark arts abyssal drain spam made DRK the self heal tank back in the day and felt awesome stealing health from mobs to keep yourself up. TBN was always fine the way it is, but they took away everything else fun the DRK used to have that made it fun/interesting to play. Thats why alot of us old school DRK mains are always complaining of the current state of the class

Oh yeah I totally aggree.

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Originally Posted by Kniteroad

What would be more fun with dark knight would to be bring back Dark Arts and instead of flood/edge spam, use mana instead to augment skills with dark arts.

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That really depends.

Does the non-DA form of the skill just end up feeling neutered and half-assed, while the DA form seems the norm? Can you find a way to limit usage enough, and create enough variation in effect in the DA additions relative to their base forms as to make them appealing without seeming obligatory?

Otherwise... it's just a spammy apm tax that makes core skills less responsive.

Don't get me wrong; I'd love a good implementation of DA. We just haven't seen one yet. HW's was almost there. StB's was far from it, though perhaps much of that can be blamed on surrounding factors.

DA versions should bring utility instead of potency. And maybe in rare cases some potency, but really in rare cases. (like saving it for party buff window etc)

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That really depends.

Does the non-DA form of the skill just end up feeling neutered and half-assed, while the DA form seems the norm? Can you find a way to limit usage enough, and create enough variation in effect in the DA additions relative to their base forms as to make them appealing without seeming obligatory?

Otherwise... it's just a spammy apm tax that makes core skills less responsive.

Don't get me wrong; I'd love a good implementation of DA. We just haven't seen one yet. HW's was almost there. StB's was far from it, though perhaps much of that can be blamed on surrounding factors.

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I feel bad that i turned this into another DRK thread from the OP. That being said:

The way i would see it is DA would augment skills. A few examples would be DA souleater for increase potency and more single target healing. DA abyssal drain to add a dot that you have to manage once a minute ( i miss you scourge). DA quietus for aoe lifesteal. You can keep flood/edge as a damage increase you need to maintain as well. In my mind it would would similar to the eukrasia system on sage.

With the 6.1 paladin changes this isn't really necessary anymore since your healing is spread out over 8 gcds instead of 4

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Originally Posted by HrudolfBerret

With the 6.1 paladin changes this isn't really necessary anymore since your healing is spread out over 8 gcds instead of 4

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Yeah I actually prefer req and sheltron healing on pld to war's bw and equi healing because of how well spread out the healing is instead of bursty like warrior