Make it prohibited activity to sell a FC

Pretty much, make it a forbidden activity to sell plots that way, because the FC seller sharks is likely to get as many tickets put in as possible during upcoming housing frenzy that would be like this even WITH lottery.

They will be there and it is organised work, SE, you can address this before it goes live.

Else you will see FC's for sale for real life cash on sites... and also... you guys could browse through these sites and then just strip whatever person for ingame property, if engaged in such activity.

SE already made a change where 'purchasing a plot with intent to sell' has become a prohibited activity.

That means that purchasing from the placard (or even possible another player) and moving directly to looking for a buyer is already disallowed. Ostensibly, it is still permitted to eventually sell for gil an FC that was originally purchased for use as a social FC, a workshop fc, or part of a decorator's collection. This can be a very good thing, as it allows players who have put time and effort into their FCs to reclaim some gil for those efforts before transferring servers.

"Cash site" sales as you mention are already very much illegal. The only real life currency you should ever redeem playing ff14 should be via mog station and your game subscription.

so as long as you didn't purchase the plot with intent to sell it later, all is good. Intent is very difficult to prove. If I don't get lucky buying my plot, I may consider "persuading" someone to sell me their fc. Maybe they will be surprised by the amount I might offer and despite originally having no intent of selling, they would do so to boost their own portfolio of glams and other must-haves in limsa dweller lives lol.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Pretty much, make it a forbidden activity to sell plots that way, because the FC seller sharks is likely to get as many tickets put in as possible during upcoming housing frenzy that would be like this even WITH lottery.

They will be there and it is organised work, SE, you can address this before it goes live.

Else you will see FC's for sale for real life cash on sites... and also... you guys could browse through these sites and then just strip whatever person for ingame property, if engaged in such activity.

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How about instead of this we ask SE to actually enforce their own rules regarding the resale of FCs. I've been monitoring one particularly egregious seller since January. I know dozens of reports have been filed on them. And yet they just in the last two days won /another/ house and sold it almost immediately (probably as RMT).

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Pretty much, make it a forbidden activity to sell plots that way, because the FC seller sharks is likely to get as many tickets put in as possible during upcoming housing frenzy that would be like this even WITH lottery.

They will be there and it is organised work, SE, you can address this before it goes live.

Else you will see FC's for sale for real life cash on sites... and also... you guys could browse through these sites and then just strip whatever person for ingame property, if engaged in such activity.

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All RMT is already prohibited.

Just because something is prohibited doesn't stop anyone from doing it if they want to. They're simply taking the chance they won't get caught, SE won't be able to obtain what they consider sufficient proof, or that the punishment will be negligible.

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

so as long as you didn't purchase the plot with intent to sell it later, all is good. Intent is very difficult to prove. If I don't get lucky buying my plot, I may consider "persuading" someone to sell me their fc. Maybe they will be surprised by the amount I might offer and despite originally having no intent of selling, they would do so to boost their own portfolio of glams and other must-haves in limsa dweller lives lol.

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Intent isn't necessarily that difficult to prove. Use of plot (or rather lack thereof) and length of ownership, changes in FC membership, etc. can be used to divine intent.

If a rank 6 FC with 4 members and a level 1 FC master buys a plot, never constructs the estate hall or never does anything with the plot after its construction, adds a new member shortly after purchase while removing the other members (except FC master) then the new member is made FC Master after a month, the intent was clearly to sell.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

How about instead of this we ask SE to actually enforce their own rules regarding the resale of FCs. I've been monitoring one particularly egregious seller since January. I know dozens of reports have been filed on them. And yet they just in the last two days won /another/ house and sold it almost immediately (probably as RMT).

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This is another situation where SE needs to hit the buyers as hard if not harder than the sellers.

Sellers exist because people are willing to buy. Remove one seller and another seller will appear in their place.

Remove the buyers, and make it openly known you are doing so, and buyers start disappearing because they don't want to waste their money just to lose what they bought.

When there's no one willing to buy, there's no point in being a seller.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

How about instead of this we ask SE to actually enforce their own rules regarding the resale of FCs. I've been monitoring one particularly egregious seller since January. I know dozens of reports have been filed on them. And yet they just in the last two days won /another/ house and sold it almost immediately (probably as RMT).

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WOW. People very rarely pass leadership on in MMOs in general or have drastic changes in memberships (unless doing a clear out of inactive players) That sort of activity should immediately be a red flag. It's surprising nothing has been done about this.

*new person joins FC, and is immediately promoted to leader8... suspect.

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Originally Posted by HuaTuo

so as long as you didn't purchase the plot with intent to sell it later, all is good. Intent is very difficult to prove. If I don't get lucky buying my plot, I may consider "persuading" someone to sell me their fc. Maybe they will be surprised by the amount I might offer and despite originally having no intent of selling, they would do so to boost their own portfolio of glams and other must-haves in limsa dweller lives lol.

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Not that difficult, me as a normal user, I can already tell their intents
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...36/unknown.png

GM with proper tools and logs, they definitely can do much more, if they are willing to analyze the properties' logs/history regularly

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Originally Posted by Heh

Not that difficult, me as a normal user, I can already tell their intents
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...50/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...36/unknown.png

GM with proper tools and logs, they definitely can do much more, if they are willing to analyze the properties' logs/history regularly

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That's not an intent to sell those properties. They (and other groups like them) have been there for quite a while now. If the intent was to sell them, most would already be gone.

What you're seeing is an intent for garden/workshop farming to earn gil (whether or not that gil is funding RMT is a different matter).

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That's not an intent to sell those properties. They (and other groups like them) have been there for quite a while now. If the intent was to sell them, most would already be gone.

What you're seeing is an intent for garden/workshop farming to earn gil (whether or not that gil is funding RMT is a different matter).

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What's the difference? :confused:

Hoarding the whole ward with the intent of selling them later to make money/gil.
Hoarding the whole ward with the intent of garden/workshop farming to make money/gil.

Are you following me? There are tons of ways to make gills in this game, why do you have to choose the one that take enjoyment out of 59 others people. That's just griefing

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

This is another situation where SE needs to hit the buyers as hard if not harder than the sellers.

Sellers exist because people are willing to buy. Remove one seller and another seller will appear in their place.

Remove the buyers, and make it openly known you are doing so, and buyers start disappearing because they don't want to waste their money just to lose what they bought.

When there's no one willing to buy, there's no point in being a seller.

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I would love to see both. Hell I'd love to see /any/ sign they actually do enforce their own rules. As it stands, I know of multiple botters. Some are just resellers, others sell housing for RMT. For years they've been at it, and reported hundreds of times. Nothing has been done to stop them, or discourage people from buying from them.

Cash site sales may be illegal but are not enforced. I have the occasional buyer hitting my message book saying they have cash to buy if I am interested.

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Originally Posted by Heh

What's the difference? :confused:

Hoarding the whole ward with the intent of selling them later to make money/gil.
Hoarding the whole ward with the intent of garden/workshop farming to make money/gil.

Are you following me? There are tons of ways to make gills in this game, why do you have to choose the one that take enjoyment out of 59 others people. That's just griefing

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I understand it's a problem but the post you quoted had been about proving intent to sell a house.

What you posted didn't prove that.

The hoarding of workshop and garden access might still be a problem but it's also unfortunately within the rules of the game due to loopholes in in the rules that SE has chosen not to address. Proving someone is hoarding is pointless when it's allowed. What we need to do is convince SE to fix the rules so it's no longer allowed.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

I understand it's a problem but the post you quoted had been about proving intent to sell a house.

What you posted didn't prove that.

The hoarding of workshop and garden access might still be a problem but it's also unfortunately within the rules of the game due to loopholes in in the rules that SE has chosen not to address. Proving someone is hoarding is pointless when it's allowed. What we need to do is convince SE to fix the rules so it's no longer allowed.

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Jojoya is right. What I'd like to see happen is for them to finally read the reports that are sent in and act on them.

The botter/RMTer I've been watching has won every single house that opens on Balmung in the last three weeks. Every. One. He has them all listed on his RMT webpage, anywhere from 350 to 250 euros. Considering there are usually dozens if not hundreds of people at these clickfests, I find it slightly suspicious that he's managed to win all of them.

He's been reported dozens if not hundreds of times at this point and yet he's still carrying on with impunity.

Which makes its clear to me that SE isn't monitoring the situation at all or reading reports sent in about him to their RMT report webpage. It's the same 8 characters constantly winning houses, appointing new FC masters (the buyers) and then reforming into new FCs the next day to do it all over again. This is easy to track, I do it without any of SE's internal reports, I just use the lodestone. There is 0 excuse for this to have gone on this long without any action on their part.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Jojoya is right. What I'd like to see happen is for them to finally read the reports that are sent in and act on them.

The botter/RMTer I've been watching has won every single house that opens on Balmung in the last three weeks. Every. One. He has them all listed on his RMT webpage, anywhere from 350 to 250 euros. Considering there are usually dozens if not hundreds of people at these clickfests, I find it slightly suspicious that he's managed to win all of them.

He's been reported dozens if not hundreds of times at this point and yet he's still carrying on with impunity.

Which makes its clear to me that SE isn't monitoring the situation at all or reading reports sent in about him to their RMT report webpage. It's the same 8 characters constantly winning houses, appointing new FC masters (the buyers) and then reforming into new FCs the next day to do it all over again. This is easy to track, I do it without any of SE's internal reports, I just use the lodestone. There is 0 excuse for this to have gone on this long without any action on their part.

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Have hope my friend. Once 6.1 is launched, botters like this person will be out of business and forced to quit.

They won't just not be able to mass bot placard clicking, in addition, their usual tactics of immediately reforming a FC to bid for new plots will be nullified since each member of the FC has to be in it for at least 30 days before they are eligible to submit a bid.

Their days are numbered and are already counting down so as to speak.

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Originally Posted by Nepentha

Which makes its clear to me that SE isn't monitoring the situation at all or reading reports sent in about him to their RMT report webpage. It's the same 8 characters constantly winning houses, appointing new FC masters (the buyers) and then reforming into new FCs the next day to do it all over again. This is easy to track, I do it without any of SE's internal reports, I just use the lodestone. There is 0 excuse for this to have gone on this long without any action on their part.

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The simple reason is that using VPN's and dummy bank accounts you can cover up a lot. So the buyer might not be directly linked to the RMT trader.

Even the mention of a plot on such site is on that not a guarantee, because once RMT traders are aware of that, they could even abuse that to kick someone out of a house (and this allows then to threaten players from kicking them out of a house, which is even worse). And not just that, they could even already do that now to just grab interest. The moment you want to go for such house, it then just suddenly says it sold.

Its a lot harder to track these things than it might appear.

And the only real counter to this would be if SE would sell these themselve (for money), and have an infinite supply (which i think is currently the real problem). Because then RMT only has 1 way to compete against that (price), which is in many cases not that beneficial because of scam potential.

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Originally Posted by UkcsAlias

The simple reason is that using VPN's and dummy bank accounts you can cover up a lot. So the buyer might not be directly linked to the RMT trader.

Even the mention of a plot on such site is on that not a guarantee, because once RMT traders are aware of that, they could even abuse that to kick someone out of a house (and this allows then to threaten players from kicking them out of a house, which is even worse). And not just that, they could even already do that now to just grab interest. The moment you want to go for such house, it then just suddenly says it sold.

Its a lot harder to track these things than it might appear.

And the only real counter to this would be if SE would sell these themselve (for money), and have an infinite supply (which i think is currently the real problem). Because then RMT only has 1 way to compete against that (price), which is in many cases not that beneficial because of scam potential.

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It's actually not that difficult. The lodestone is permanent, I am part of the housing discord so I know what plots demolish when, and exactly when they sell and who won them at that moment. The lodestone reveals who is in an FC, when they leave, and who abruptly becomes the new owner. It aligns with the RMT website's addition of new plots for sale. Not rocket science to determine who is and isn't buying housing solely for the purpose of reselling it. RMT or gil, it's still against the ToS.

Make it so you have to own the house for 6 months to transfer ownership.

Make it so you have to be a tenant/member for 6 months of the house to receive ownership

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Originally Posted by Basteala

Make it so you have to own the house for 6 months to transfer ownership.

Make it so you have to be a tenant/member for 6 months of the house to receive ownership

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That's going to cause problems for legitimate FCs if their FC Master has a real life situation interfering with their ability to play.

Already cannot transfer ownership of a personal house to a tenant so that's a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by Basteala

Make it so you have to own the house for 6 months to transfer ownership.

Make it so you have to be a tenant/member for 6 months of the house to receive ownership

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The people selling FC's are no longer going to be employing the "sell and leave" method.
The new method going forward is to find a buyer, bring buyer into FC- and delete the seller's FC leader, therefore bypassing the 30 day timer- because the new recruit will simply inherit the plot.

Yeah, they're dim enough that they've posted about this on public Discords/sites. I hope it bites 'em square in the tuchus.

I hope in that case an fc would just get deleted and the plot lost....

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Originally Posted by Heh

What's the difference [between selling and collecting]?

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https://www.merriam-webster.com/