To Reduce AST Button & Weave bloat

Remove Draw and have its effects (the charges and cooldown) incorporated into the Arcana Gauge.
The mana restoration effect of Draw would be moved to Play. Giving it a 2s cooldown would also remove the ‘slow gcd, very low ping’ that would be otherwise required for double weaving plays in instant casts (which isn’t feasible for many players).

In addition, Minor Arcana could also be incorporated into the Arcana Gauge in the same way. Considerations into how it charges would need to be made to ensure that people aren’t held waiting out of combat to ensure a Lord is played at the start. Possibly having it charge only in combat and like Enochian - where the card is overwritten at the end instead of being held like Addersgall and Lilies.

Furthermore, to reduce weave bloat from Redraw, the Arcana Gauge could show what the redrawn card would be (using the slot where a Spread card used to be) and the ‘redraw’ button would play that card on the target.

These changes would reduce AST’s button count by 2, and reduce the 2 minute burst from 9-11 weaves to 6.

Thanks for reading.

Enough jobs have been dumbed down/were designed dumb, go play one of those instead and leave one of the few interesting jobs in this game alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pibz

Enough jobs have been dumbed down/were designed dumb, go play one of those instead and leave one of the few interesting jobs in this game alone.

---

Thank you for admitting to the world that you find pressing draw to be sole hard aspect of astrologian.

Sleeve Draw in the current AST design does not exist.

It has been widely suggested Draw/Play and Crown Draw/Play be consolidated into 2 buttons. Which is essentially what you'd be advocating for (from 4 button presses to just 2).

Also people like that AST is high APM. I'd rather not slow card draw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ASkellington

Sleeve Draw in the current AST design does not exist.

It has been widely suggested Draw/Play and Crown Draw/Play be consolidated into 2 buttons. Which is essentially what you'd be advocating for (from 4 button presses to just 2).

Also people like that AST is high APM. I'd rather not slow card draw.

---

It would be nice if they could also smoothly distribute the super busy 15s reopener across the entire remaining of 105s while keeping a similar, if not same APM through the entire encounter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

It would be nice if they could also smoothly distribute the super busy 15s reopener across the entire remaining of 105s while keeping a similar, if not same APM through the entire encounter.

---

I would be ok with that, but I don't see it happening unless other classes too distribute their openers and reopeners (which I personally would like but y'know)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ASkellington

Sleeve Draw in the current AST design does not exist.

It has been widely suggested Draw/Play and Crown Draw/Play be consolidated into 2 buttons. Which is essentially what you'd be advocating for (from 4 button presses to just 2).

Also people like that AST is high APM. I'd rather not slow card draw.

---

My bad - I keep getting Minor Arcana and Sleeve Draw messed up in my head.

The problem with consolidating them into 1 button is that it would be easy to accidentally press Play or Draw after using the other one, and there's no need if draw could happen automatically. Those are button presses only for the sake of button presses.

As for the latter - the Devs are already looking for places to reduce button and action bloat to make it easier on controller players - if we're going to lose it anyway, I'd rather it be in places that have as little impact to the job's flow and performance.

Sarcastically, the problem with this thread OP, and why second poster responded so harshly, is probably that should this type of feedback make it to the devs, they will most likely read a quarter of it and interpret it as : ok let's remove cards, ast are struggling. They're sh*tting on healers real hard, might as well not leave a trace behind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pibz

Enough jobs have been dumbed down/were designed dumb, go play one of those instead and leave one of the few interesting jobs in this game alone.

---

I can't believe Fluid Area got axed before Undraw. At least I used Fluid Aura!

I like the busy card aspect but I get really tilted at not having sleeve draw to mitigate poor rng for astrodyne. I loved old sleeve draw of three cards, yeeting them out like the oprah meme was fun q.q

Concerned what they plan on doing for 6.1... hopeful too but mostly worried.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I like the busy card aspect but I get really tilted at not having sleeve draw to mitigate poor rng for astrodyne.

---

I still don't get why they changed ShB's card system. :B
If wanting to keep seals was their reason, they could of just kept ShB's Minor Arcana and Sleeve Draw then added Astrodyne with a 120 second cooldown so we had time to fish for seals, could use Minor Arcana, and have it align with our Divination window. :B

As for the OP's suggestions, I think your idea of having a normal card and a minor arcana auto-draw is fine, just have the play buttons be 30 seconds and 60 seconds respectfully. However, I think your Redraw idea just adds more busywork.

It’s pretty dumb how many “filler” buttons astro has. Like lord in heaven I can’t use 2 different earthly star macros because I don’t have the hot bar space

While I personally think ast is basically all filler now that its cards and time magic have gone, some of the buttons are just there just because the devs seemingly wanted higher button count

Here's some buttons to save space

Undraw needs to go. It never had a use
Benefic 1-benefic 2 is somehting that should have been done on launch.
Play should never have been split from draw in the first place
Likewise with crown play
Neutral sect is a combo of blantantly overpowered, lore breaking and can be made into an upgrade to synastry. On that note synastry should be all healing

I don't understand why people would rather the class be dumbed down rather than play at a lesser efficacy themselves. I am sure if you just used cards whenever you're feeling not overwhelmed and used Aspected Helios whenever you're scared you'd still be able to clear any extreme and savage content before the next major patch. Why must every goddamn class be simplified to the level where even the lowest common denominator can play close to optimally when content is already simplified to the point where you don't need to play well at all in order to clear?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Esunya

Snip

---

Thank you for your input! I'm starting to think that having to use draw, whose only use is to subsequentially allow the use of redraw and play, is actually considered one of the more difficult aspects of Astrologian's kit.
Now I see from your fflogs page that you are a Black Mage main, so allow me to put it in easier terms for you to understand.

Imagine if there was a button on Black Mage whose only purpose was to enable the subsequent use of Foul/Xenoglossy - there is no skill in pressing the button itself, as the placement of Xenoglossy in your rotation is the part that actually matters.
Would such a button be seen as 'vital to BLM's kit and dumbing down if removed', or would it be just fine if the Elemental Gauge continues to feed you a Xenoglossy usage (with stacks shown on the gauge) every 30s.
I actually based this 'moving Draw to the gauge' idea from Black Mage's Enochian-Foul/Xeno interaction, so it should seem familiar enough.

As for the 'simplification' - was it simplification to have Sleeve Draw give you 3 cards instead of refresh Draw's cooldown 3 times? Was it simplication to have ShB Minor Arcana just play the minor version instead of converting the card?
Absolutely not. It was to stop the massive amount of weaving and improve how it feels to play Astrologian. Needing to press a button whose only purpose is to allow you to press a different button only serves to clutter Astrologian's already busy burst phase and mandate the usage of Lightspeed (AST's only movement tool) in 120s intervals while it has a 90s cooldown.

Then maybe with those free buttons we can finally get an actual interesting damaging skill to alleviate the boredom of downtime malefic spam. God I wish...

I miss 3.0-4.0 AST

Although I’ve hardly played AST,

I support this,

Less is best & simplicity can bring great result.

I don’t see an issue why not.

I am with him/her on this

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by YusiKha

Thank you for your input! I'm starting to think that having to use draw, whose only use is to subsequentially allow the use of redraw and play, is actually considered one of the more difficult aspects of Astrologian's kit.
Now I see from your fflogs page that you are a Black Mage main, so allow me to put it in easier terms for you to understand.

Imagine if there was a button on Black Mage whose only purpose was to enable the subsequent use of Foul/Xenoglossy - there is no skill in pressing the button itself, as the placement of Xenoglossy in your rotation is the part that actually matters.
Would such a button be seen as 'vital to BLM's kit and dumbing down if removed', or would it be just fine if the Elemental Gauge continues to feed you a Xenoglossy usage (with stacks shown on the gauge) every 30s.
I actually based this 'moving Draw to the gauge' idea from Black Mage's Enochian-Foul/Xeno interaction, so it should seem familiar enough.

As for the 'simplification' - was it simplification to have Sleeve Draw give you 3 cards instead of refresh Draw's cooldown 3 times? Was it simplication to have ShB Minor Arcana just play the minor version instead of converting the card?
Absolutely not. It was to stop the massive amount of weaving and improve how it feels to play Astrologian. Needing to press a button whose only purpose is to allow you to press a different button only serves to clutter Astrologian's already busy burst phase and mandate the usage of Lightspeed (AST's only movement tool) in 120s intervals while it has a 90s cooldown.

Then maybe with those free buttons we can finally get an actual interesting damaging skill to alleviate the boredom of downtime malefic spam. God I wish...

---

Having filler buttons that require some level of thoughts on top of having a simple 1 button malefic spam rotation is indeed preferable to what you are proposing. If BLM was indeed back in its state back in 2.0 where all you did was spam Fire 1 then yes I would actually say yeah, having a button that enabled Xenoglossy would perhaps be preferable to just simply be handed out for free.

Everything is all relative and each class can be difficult in different aspects. I think a lot of classes have abilities with lower cooldown you want to avoid drifting and planning those out is indeed part of their difficulty and optimization. Drifting and delaying them would mean you'll either slowly drift out of raid buff windows and/or you will lose a cast over the course of the fight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Esunya

I don't understand why people would rather the class be dumbed down rather than play at a lesser efficacy themselves. I am sure if you just used cards whenever you're feeling not overwhelmed and used Aspected Helios whenever you're scared you'd still be able to clear any extreme and savage content before the next major patch. Why must every goddamn class be simplified to the level where even the lowest common denominator can play close to optimally when content is already simplified to the point where you don't need to play well at all in order to clear?

---

For me the problem isn't the complexity, it's the reward and design.

AST has the same APM as in ShB, but a bulk of it has been bundled into the 2 min burst window, forcing Lightspeed to exist purely to facilitate this gameplay of break your hands every 2 minutes and then fall asleep until the next 2 min burst.

Astrodyne is just Lucid on a stick. The 2 and 3 buffs are meaningless and barely contribute a percent or two of your dps. This in turn makes Redraw almost meaningless.

MA is 0 complexity. You either proc lots of Lords or sucks to be you. Lady is fairly worthless. Lord is just a free Malefic.

There is no reason Draw/Play and Crown Play/MA shouldn't be merged into one button. It doesn't increase complexity to split them.

Complexity is great, but shouldn't you be rewarded for doing well with it? Astrodyne and MA don't reward you. They merely exist to make you press buttons but give almost nothing in return. It's poor design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

For me the problem isn't the complexity, it's the reward and design.

AST has the same APM as in ShB, but a bulk of it has been bundled into the 2 min burst window, forcing Lightspeed to exist purely to facilitate this gameplay of break your hands every 2 minutes and then fall asleep until the next 2 min burst.

Astrodyne is just Lucid on a stick. The 2 and 3 buffs are meaningless and barely contribute a percent or two of your dps. This in turn makes Redraw almost meaningless.

MA is 0 complexity. You either proc lots of Lords or sucks to be you. Lady is fairly worthless. Lord is just a free Malefic.

There is no reason Draw/Play and Crown Play/MA shouldn't be merged into one button. It doesn't increase complexity to split them.

Complexity is great, but shouldn't you be rewarded for doing well with it? Astrodyne and MA don't reward you. They merely exist to make you press buttons but give almost nothing in return. It's poor design.

---

"Look, Ma! I'm pressing buttons!" -AST

I'm not a huge fan of putting more stuff onto the arcana gauge because it could wind up becoming a bit too busy looking. Showing the drawn card and the redrawn card at the same time would also be a bit whack and take some time to get used to. It would improve with getting bum rolls during your cardstravaganza when you have to decide between giving up a good seal for potentially getting a better card. I find myself sometimes grumbling when I'm sitting on two seals with a ranged third card, then fail the 50-50 on getting a melee card to slap on the melee.