Fallen Players immortalized

Quick question.

Would it be at all possible to incorporate a picture/painting for housing of players that have passed away. Some form or fashion to immortalize them in an FC house or maybe a garden with statues? Maybe have a candle alter for those that want to visit and pay respects.

Just an image of them posing that can be placed in a frame to hang on a wall in an FC house seems very respectful.

Might seem impossible to keep from people abusing it...

IDK...

We had one our raiders pass away to cancer....and I can't think of the character they spent so much time with just....vanishing...

It was an image of themselves and how they interacted with the teams.

Good question, FC I just joined was founded by a very popular person who died well in a dungeon. There was so much well wishes for the guy and FC. Its like the FC is a memorial now to this dude. I'd support something like this to remember the fallen Warrior of Light(s)

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

Good question, FC I just joined was founded by a very popular person who died well in a dungeon. There was so much well wishes for the guy and FC. Its like the FC is a memorial now to this dude. I'd support something like this to remember the fallen Warrior of Light(s)

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Sad to hear. Glad I'm not the only one.

Thanks

I think the game has existed for long enough and is so community-driven that this might be justifiable.

Most aspects of it seem quite doable, since it would just be utilizing the character creation in a slightly different way, either making a statue or taking a stylized screenshot. The biggest difficulty I see is making what are effectively customized items. But I have to believe if we can customize certain things with company charges that it's not impossible.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

I think the game has existed for long enough and is so community-driven that this might be justifiable.

Most aspects of it seem quite doable, since it would just be utilizing the character creation in a slightly different way, either making a statue or taking a stylized screenshot. The biggest difficulty I see is making what are effectively customized items. But I have to believe if we can customize certain things with company charges that it's not impossible.

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That's where I draw a blank thought. How do keep others from abusing it from making a statue or picture of themselves. This is meant to immortalize those that have fallen, and know that they have enjoyed this game for a decade...but no longer.

It makes me sad just thinking of the person that we lost as they single handedly developed our raiding discord, teams, events, with over 50 raiders at the beginning and evolved into nearly 100 raiders all supporting each other. It was a sad day when our discord co lead gave us the sad news. Now I feel we owe it to this leader that brought us all together, and struggled together this current raid tier. People I have met....people I can rely on...voices I know...

It's incredibly humbling at my age....

Now I would like to pay it forward....

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

That's where I draw a blank thought. How do keep others from abusing it from making a statue or picture of themselves. This is meant to immortalize those that have fallen, and know that they have enjoyed this game for a decade...but no longer.

It makes me sad just thinking of the person that we lost as they single handedly developed our raiding discord, teams, events, with over 50 raiders at the beginning and evolved into nearly 100 raiders all supporting each other. It was a sad day when our discord co lead gave us the sad news. Now I feel we owe it to this leader that brought us all together, and struggled together this current raid tier. People I have met....people I can rely on...voices I know...

It's incredibly humbling at my age....

Now I would like to pay it forward....

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The only way to really counter this sort of "abuse" would be to make it a neutral thing and allow it to be open to interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

That's where I draw a blank thought. How do keep others from abusing it from making a statue or picture of themselves. This is meant to immortalize those that have fallen, and know that they have enjoyed this game for a decade...but no longer.

It makes me sad just thinking of the person that we lost as they single handedly developed our raiding discord, teams, events, with over 50 raiders at the beginning and evolved into nearly 100 raiders all supporting each other. It was a sad day when our discord co lead gave us the sad news. Now I feel we owe it to this leader that brought us all together, and struggled together this current raid tier. People I have met....people I can rely on...voices I know...

It's incredibly humbling at my age....

Now I would like to pay it forward....

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On the one hand, Vahlnir is right that it could be a neutral thing, but I also would worry that if it were only tied to *active* accounts then it might shut them out of the core purpose of being memorials.

So I would propose having a system where it can only be used for inactive accounts, and only if other users report and verify that the player died. Effectively XIV would need a death registry, which is kind of morbid but not unreasonable.

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

On the one hand, Vahlnir is right that it could be a neutral thing, but I also would worry that if it were only tied to *active* accounts then it might shut them out of the core purpose of being memorials.

So I would propose having a system where it can only be used for inactive accounts, and only if other users report and verify that the player died. Effectively XIV would need a death registry, which is kind of morbid but not unreasonable.

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That is morbid...but death usually is. I really like the idea of inactive accounts. This helps tie the player to the FC. Possibly have the FC leader reach out to SE and apply for the registration if they so choose?

I don't think I would be on board with a picture, I could see it consuming a lot of resources, especially given how diverse some characters can be. Hairstyles, faces, skin tones, etc.

I would however think it fairly reasonable to have race/gender statues as furnishing items and then just use a Message Book-esque feature to have a short little memoir encapsulating their escapades. Just a simple fairly generic statue for each race and gender.

I know there is already a way for you to put your retainers outside of your house. There could be something similar where you could customize the appearance of a manikin but it would turn into a statue, but unsure how hard it would be to implement. I know for the manikin system you can tie your retainer to it and summon them through the manikin, so making it so the player is the retainer but someone getting them instead of being the retainer just be a statue of the player if that makes sense. There is already sort of a way to get none player characters though they are shop keeps or retainers but they are custom already so making the same system to make a statue customizable shouldn't be too hard but you would have to just tie into the system that is already there.

This is a great idea - but I don't see why we'd want to "keep people from abusing it" or "have to register with SE and prove the player death".

What if I wanted to make a (better) shrine to Hauchefaunt, with a statue? Or commemorate my dead grandmother, who never played?
Or a statue of our years-long FC leader, who simply quit the game?
Actually - what would be wrong with building a statue of ourselves? Commemorating say our Eternal Bonding ceremony if there were two of them. Or our defeat of an Ultimate raid? Or for that matter - just one that says "Jennah is awesome!"
Would that sort of thing actually detract from your fallen friend?

I think it should be some kind of remembrance book and maybe a plaque you can click and read the names? of all the fallen warriors of light! Like a memorial garden of sorts a place full of beauty to remember them by. This would be a lovely idea though. Not sure how it could be implemented but I am sure they could manage something.

You could use the house diary for that.

You are all looking at this from the wrong perspective. If you truly want to memorialize players who have passed away, you do not need Square Enix to do so. A simple website dedicated to those who went before, incorporating screenshots and information of how they lived and when they passed away, would be sufficient.

It would require no resources from Square Enix, nor would it require SE to intrude into a player's personal life.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Quick question.

Would it be at all possible to incorporate a picture/painting for housing of players that have passed away. Some form or fashion to immortalize them in an FC house or maybe a garden with statues? Maybe have a candle alter for those that want to visit and pay respects.

Just an image of them posing that can be placed in a frame to hang on a wall in an FC house seems very respectful.

Might seem impossible to keep from people abusing it...

IDK...

We had one our raiders pass away to cancer....and I can't think of the character they spent so much time with just....vanishing...

It was an image of themselves and how they interacted with the teams.

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This game is not a personal obituary. The devs are trying their best to please us!

Honestly they should in general let us frame our gposes in our houses. Really sorry to hear about that though. I'm sure this post would make them happy.

I understand there is a want for this, but why would you need some form of memorial made by SQE to remember the players you lose?
Why not get creative and put up a armor stand dummy, pose it up in the deceased favorite glamour?
You could build up a shrine with candles and candlestands, even the guestbook like some one else mentioned is a great idea!

A memorial is what you make it, it means the world to you, but nothing to others..
I would also like to stand still and consider what the deceased would think of this, as it is not a topic you would think to discuss.
I sure wouldn't want my character's face plastered on the wall to be memorialized in my FC,
it is not something I am comfortable with.

I dunno if they'd want to/be able to do something so specific, but it might be cool/feasible if you could get portraits made of characters to hang up as decorations. That way you could make a portrait of whoever you want to honor. It also opens up other things that could be done as well.

A commendable gesture for sure. However, if this is something you really want to do, there are other ways.

If I was a member of this FC, I would build a memorial at the FC in their honor, and likely ask for willing participants to contribute towards its construction. Another idea is to designate a certain location somewhere in the world of FFXIV as a spot to go to to reflect and remember this person. Things like this use resources that are already available, and are kept exclusive within the FC.

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Originally Posted by LukaRoselia

Honestly they should in general let us frame our gposes in our houses. Really sorry to hear about that though. I'm sure this post would make them happy.

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Thanks. The discord shares the sentiment and not a single raider wasn't effected by his passing. We all raided with him.

Tiered graveyard per server simple, medium, mausoleum. and dead people should not get to keep their house. That's whack just like the house hoarders but a separate issue.

Grief, mourning and remembrance should be left up to each individual. With all the myriad ways and places to remember folks, it really shouldn't fall to game developers to create such a space.

It's almost guaranteed that any kind of public space would eventually be disrespected somehow. People already dance around the stages for The Rising event, which is supposed to be a somber occasion.

This is a good idea :D

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Originally Posted by Sigma5

Tiered graveyard per server simple, medium, mausoleum.

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Hey, as long as I can desecrate the mausoleum in true WoL fashion of looking for treasure, go for it. Get some guardian monsters there to discourage that and we're golden.

Oh, you don't want fighting in your game? Hmph.

Memorializing players who we've lost is something that almost every game community tackles in one way or another. Here in FFXIV we've had memorial walks for some well-loved players, and so on. Most games never really have a formal way to memorialize them, partly because the logistics can be complicated at best. Make an in-game monument memorializing fallen players, which people can get names added to? Now you need someone to review all those submissions and add them. Make it automated? Now you have people who are going to abuse the system to scrawl immature graffiti onto the in-game memorial. (C'mon, we all know it would happen.)

There are exceptions, mind you. EVE Online in particular had some of the most touching (and also weirdest) ways to memorialize people, from cyno vigils (in some ways, the most poetic and haunting player memorial tradition I've encountered in any game, given that you basically come together to light a memorial candle to the fallen so bright that it is, for a brief time, a new star -- or a lighthouse to guide them safely to shore on their final journey) to the player-created and run Molea Cemetery, which the devs turned into an official thing about two years ago. But many of those are facilitated by being in games like EVE where players can influence the game-world, such as building structures or putting down objects or whatnot. Witness that the cemetery consists of cargo pods jettisoned to orbit around a monument, with each pod having its name changed to a short eulogy remembering the fallen.

(Mind you, they can also face unique threats due to the nature of those worlds as well -- witness how many times various troublemakers tried to nuke the Molea Cemetery.)

Given the nature of FFXIV as a game (and the realities of the engine), what would almost make more sense is a picture frame where you can just tell it to display the portrait of a given character in the fashion of their Lodestone image -- whether or not the character is currently active. It doesn't have to be specific to a memorial, so you don't need any sort of review process or way to "prove" the character belongs to a deceased player; people could just as easily use it to put a portrait of themselves up in their house or have a portrait hall of the FC officers in an FC house or whatever. And you could limit the number of these dynamic portraits you could put up in one estate, so no one drags a housing server to a crashing halt by trying to put several hundred of them up in one spot, all pulling player portraits dynamically from the Lodestone. But even those limitations would still allow people to make little memorial spots within their house or FC house. Obviously, it leaves out folks who don't have housing, which is not ideal; we already have enough systems gated on home ownership (plant crossbreeding, FC workshops, etc.), and it irks me a bit to even suggest adding one more.

But otherwise, any real options for in-game memorials will often rely on the creativity of the players themselves... as with EVE's cyno vigils. (Or as with folks I've seen who create a person's character as a retainer and put the retainer in the FC house yard or whatever, so that the person is symbolically still around and remembered.)

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

We had one our raiders pass away to cancer....and I can't think of the character they spent so much time with just....vanishing...

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I would love this. A friend of mine did and it would be nice if they would add a graveyard and maybe only certified accounts with a players death can register a tombstone in it? Something like that.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

(Mind you, they can also face unique threats due to the nature of those worlds as well -- witness how many times various troublemakers tried to nuke the Molea Cemetery.)

Given the nature of FFXIV as a game (and the realities of the engine), what would almost make more sense is a picture frame where you can just tell it to display the portrait of a given character in the fashion of their Lodestone image -- whether or not the character is currently active. It doesn't have to be specific to a memorial, so you don't need any sort of review process or way to "prove" the character belongs to a deceased player; people could just as easily use it to put a portrait of themselves up in their house or have a portrait hall of the FC officers in an FC house or whatever. And you could limit the number of these dynamic portraits you could put up in one estate, so no one drags a housing server to a crashing halt by trying to put several hundred of them up in one spot, all pulling player portraits dynamically from the Lodestone. But even those limitations would still allow people to make little memorial spots within their house or FC house. Obviously, it leaves out folks who don't have housing, which is not ideal; we already have enough systems gated on home ownership (plant crossbreeding, FC workshops, etc.), and it irks me a bit to even suggest adding one more.

But otherwise, any real options for in-game memorials will often rely on the creativity of the players themselves... as with EVE's cyno vigils. (Or as with folks I've seen who create a person's character as a retainer and put the retainer in the FC house yard or whatever, so that the person is symbolically still around and remembered.)

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(Trimmed down your quote.)

Love the direction here. I can't think a more touching way to build a community and a strong bond then coming together to remember those that we have lost. I had a player I ran with for nearly 6 years on FFXI pass away, and back then it was during a time in my life when I was very much alone. I saw them as a close friend and companion that I could get into crazy adventures with. I didn't think for a second what would it feel like to lose that connection and how much it would impact me.

I was lost....

Logging in just hurt. Knowing that I couldn't talk to him and ask him "What should we do today?". It was like I lost a friend that you only saw during the summer when you were growing up. You never forget them.

It reminds me of Haurchefant's grave....if I had just a place or something I could turn to pay respects and have it remind me to carry on...and find that next adventure. I would have a much deeper connection to the game.

I think a picture of the last lodestone image is perfect for this instance! Even if it was just a simple bitmap at 50k...it's a start.

And how is SE meant to track this, for them all they see is "subscription ends" they see no "why". Do you want them to look at death certificate's? Or what ever proof can be given.

If no proof is required players will make an alt, end its subscription and demand a grave/monument etc. We life in a world in which players abuse all things to get benefits or superficial benefits sadly.

I'm not sure this would translate well into the game even though the idea would be nice and those players that were lost would love it and deserve it, but would you chase down their families for a death certificate? And if no proof is required players will abuse it.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

And how is SE meant to track this, for them all they see is "subscription ends" they see no "why". Do you want them to look at death certificate's? Or what ever proof can be given.

If no proof is required players will make an alt, end its subscription and demand a grave/monument etc. We life in a world in which players abuse all things to get benefits or superficial benefits sadly.

I'm not sure this would translate well into the game even though the idea would be nice and those players that were lost would love it and deserve it, but would you chase down their families for a death certificate? And if no proof is required players will abuse it.

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I agree about the abuse of this. That's why I didn't have a good solution. Good idea...difficult execution.

Honestly, they don't need to interpret this for anyone and just allow stylized character creation screenshots to be portraits in a housing item.

That doesn't hurt anyone and fulfills the potential purpose here.

Btw this is a great idea. We have a FC leader that randomly vanished on us one day without a word. Still in the FC obv but was a good friend to all of us. We woud love to have a furnishing we could frame of his character.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I had a player I ran with for nearly 6 years on FFXI pass away, and back then it was during a time in my life when I was very much alone. I saw them as a close friend and companion that I could get into crazy adventures with. I didn't think for a second what would it feel like to lose that connection and how much it would impact me. I was lost.... Logging in just hurt.

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I feel you on this. While I've been lucky enough not to lose any of my FFXIV friends, one of my dearest MMO friends passed away back during the WildStar closed beta -- fairly close to the end, too. In earlier phases, we'd gotten into all kinds of mischief together -- much of which he'd immortalized in art. But now in the final beta phase, he'd been falling behind on the beta while most of our group was pushing on (since the later levels really needed some testing love), and was feeling left-out and sad. So I'd left one character -- my primary character, even -- sitting in an early hub, waiting for Bryan to get better and log in.

When I finally logged in that character for the first time after he passed away, I realized I was standing on top of a building. See, the last time I'd been on with that character, I'd taught Bryan a way to glitch-jump up on top of the town hall right at the end of the night, and we'd both logged out there. And for whatever reason, that just suddenly hit me hard and I burst into tears.

(I mean, it didn't help that I was also the one his brother found and contacted to let us know that our friend's "I think I've come down with the flu, I feel lousy, I'm gonna take a few days and rest up" had turned from flu into severe pneumonia, then a hospitalization, then death. So I also had to be the one to tell all of Bryan's other friends what had happened...)

At launch, though, a bunch of us glitched our way up on top of that building and had a little remembrance right where his character had last logged off; we'd all planned to have a big get-together once the game was actually out, and by doing that, it was a little bit like we could still include him.

Having some way to remember a friend can really help, sometimes.