Sage suggestions

The overall sentiment around healers right now is that spamming glare/broil/malefic/dosis 100+ times per fight is boring as boring gets. There are ways for the developers to change this without having to add more buttons or create new assets. It also wouldn’t necessarily raise the skill floor which is what the devs seem to use as their reasoning for not adding any complexity to the role.

As sage is the only healer I’ve played extensively this expac, I have a few suggestions that would allow us to have less dosis spam and play more into sage’s identity of “shield healer” and “heal by damaging”.

1. Addersting is generated upon casting diagnosis, eukrasian diagnosis, prognosis, or eukrasian prognosis.

2. Using toxicon reduces the cooldown of phlegma by roughly 15-20 seconds.

3. Phlegma has three charges.

4. Physis grants nearby party members kardia for 15 seconds. This would mean more damage=more heals and would give an actual reason to use soteria.

5. Kerachole no longer has a regen effect. Now it applies a stacking shield to allies for 15 seconds. Every time you use any damage skill while Kerachole is active it applies another shield to allies. The potency of that shield depends on the damage of the spell.


I’m sure these wouldn’t work flawlessly and would necessitate potency and cooldown changes, but I think something along these lines could be a good change.

Oh, and

6. Eukrasian dosis doesn’t apply all of its kardia healing up front. Kardia would trigger for every tick of the dot.

The general sentiment is Sage's honestly are what they tried to do with Bards. DPS Healers who focus on DPS instead of healing. I have seen alliances mass quit after getting all Sages on the team.

Honestly, I don't consider Sages Healers or good healers in fact when it comes down to it if I get a Sage in my party I automatically will commend anyone but a Sage. With the 6.1 patch increasing healing spells I think the developers have gotten the hint we want Healers who can actually do more Healing instead of DPSing.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

The general sentiment is Sage's honestly are what they tried to do with Bards. DPS Healers who focus on DPS instead of healing. I have seen alliances mass quit after getting all Sages on the team.

Honestly, I don't consider Sages Healers or good healers in fact when it comes down to it if I get a Sage in my party I automatically will commend anyone but a Sage. With the 6.1 patch increasing healing spells I think the developers have gotten the hint we want Healers who can actually do more Healing instead of DPSing.

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You clearly have a negative amount of understanding about Sage since it's still the highest HPS healer in the game with very few weaknesses. You could always, ya know, pay attention to what your team is doing in battle to decide who you want to commend, but I'm fairly certain you'll just respond with something about how "rational-thinking" is overrated.

As for the OP, here's some feedback:

Points 1 & 2: If you made Toxikon reduce Phlegma's CD by 20 seconds, you'd be looking at an approximate 557 DPS potency 2-button combo on GCD healing, which ultimately means all this effort does nothing to change the healing style of Sage since it's still a DPS loss to GCD heal. Simply upping the CD reduction is, at that point, functionally the same as just increasing the potency of Toxikon, and it's been discussed before about how that's not really a great idea on it's own. Either it's a DPS loss and we don't care about using it, or it's neutral or a gain and we spam GCD healing whenever possible which is antithetical to Sage's design. It needs more nuance to allow Toxikon to shine without making it a spammable tool.

Point 3: It makes sense with the idea of making Toxikon reduce Phlegma's cooldown, but seeing as that is not an effective solution, it's ultimately not a necessary change. It would also inadvertently increase Sage's burst DPS, which isn't inherently bad, but should be taken into consideration.

Point 4: I think it would just make more sense for Soteria to be AoE and essentially function as a temporary, secondary Kardia.

Point 5: Interesting, but I'm not really sure what your goal is with this from a gameplay perspective. It would mean you'd want to use Kerachole much earlier to build up that stacking barrier before a nasty raidwide. Currently we try to use it just before a raidwide, or in certain situations earlier to have the cooldown back again for the next raidwide, but it would also cut out a big chunk of our AoE healing. Perhaps the Soteria or Physis II change would compensate, but I'd definitely want to test out what that feels like in practice.

Point 6: If you're spreading out 170 across 30 seconds, that would just be a heal of 17 potency per tick. I'm not sure if that's worth the thematic synchronization.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

The general sentiment is Sage's honestly are what they tried to do with Bards. DPS Healers who focus on DPS instead of healing. I have seen alliances mass quit after getting all Sages on the team.

Honestly, I don't consider Sages Healers or good healers in fact when it comes down to it if I get a Sage in my party I automatically will commend anyone but a Sage. With the 6.1 patch increasing healing spells I think the developers have gotten the hint we want Healers who can actually do more Healing instead of DPSing.

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I'm going to assume this is more of a you problem, not a Sage problem. I haven't failed a pull since the start of this expansion regardless how bad the party has been. But good on you for effectively giving innocent Sage players the middle finger simply because you don't like their job, that'll show em! /s

Healers might not be very well designed but if the party dies because the healer is only dpsing and not healing, and no one else is playing poorly, then that is a player problem not a Sage problem. Between Kerachole, Taurochole, physis, Haima, Painhaima, etc you have more than enough tools to avoid wipes even in below average parties. So tone down your healer bashing just a smidge, I even noticed you have a tank forum thread complaining too.



But on this topic I did always find toxicon to be exceptionally underwhelming. Addersting just feels flawed. It would be nice if the mechanic did synergize with the rest of the kit in some fashion.

Don't feed the troll. He's a 0 mitigation tank who got called out for it a while back but decided to go on a vendetta against healers instead for not covering for his own faults. Nothing to see here.

If I had designed sage I'd have really leaned into the barriers because a lot of their abilities don't make much sense when you think about them.

Take Kerachole for example. Before it gets a regen added to it, it simply has a damage reduction. That's fine, good for dungeon trash or raid wide aoes.

But once the regen is attached? If you don't use it a split second before a raidwide, some of that regen healing is wasted. Now if it had a 500 potency barrier upfront with that 10% damage reduction? Leans into the barrier healing playstyle that Sage is SUPPOSED to have.

Same with Taurochole.

The 700 potency upfront heal is wasted for a tank buster because you might only want it for the 10% damage reduction. That 700 pot heal is pointless if the tank's on the floor. Put a 500-700 pot shield on it instead.

Same with Holos.

All of this upfront and regen healing on what is supposed to be a barrier healer.

IMHO the Barrier / Regen based healer system has been an absolute failure because of the FFXIV Dev's complete refusal to lean into it. When everyone is Super, no one is Super.

When all of the Healers have all of the tools, there is no job identity.

I’d reply with quote but I’m on my phone and that’d take forever. So I didn’t crunch any numbers or do any math or anything. Specifics like potency adjustments, healing ticks etc weren’t taken into account. Obviously, anything like this would necessitate number changes. More things I thought of after reading your guys’ comments:

The overall goal with my train of thought is to allow gcd heals without them being overtly punishing, reduce dosis spam, and turn what are currently regens into either shields, or kardia appliers since kardia is effectively a regen anyway.

Maybe adder’s sting could be generated when using anything that uses addersgall.

Kardia could heal based on the amount of damage you deal, not whenever you cast an offensive spell. Sage doesn’t have any attack that’s crazy high potency anyway so single target fights wouldn’t be massively effected by this but it could make dungeon trash more interesting. My point about kardia ticking with each tick of your dot is more for dungeon pulls than bosses. I do agree, having kerachole give a defense buff and just a strong barrier makes a lot more sense. As for points 1, 2 and 3, if addersgall skills and GCD heals generated stings, and if toxicon completely reset phlegma’s cooldown, would that make it any better? In my head that would basically make toxicon then phlegma a combo, but I’ll take an occasional two button combo over 111111111.
Skills like holos and taurochole make no sense as they are. If holos was just a defense buff, that’d work. If taurochole were just a defense buff, that’d work. As taurochole is currently, they only time it’s really worth using is on multi hit tankbusters which is really niche. Holos is just meh.

I do agree that if the devs don’t seriously lean into the regen/shield healer dynamic then it’ll fail. I’m reserving judgement until 6.2. Though, Yoshi P’s “just do ultimate lul” and “we replaced the healer on our test team bc they got too good” comments make me terribly skeptical.

Some of these aditions are good in a vacuum but I don't think they'll achieve what you want them to do
1-in a vacuum is good but woudn't break the dosis spam

2-The interesting one, once again on a vacuum is good however there are 2 scenarios depending on the potency

If toxicon+15s worth of phlegma cd is less powerful than dosis spam, then it woudn't break the spam
If its equal or stronger then that would be spammed as its more dps+healing for a slightly more mp cost (200 per cycle) and tbh changing one spam for the other doesn't sound great to me

3-In a vacuum not bad but woudn't break the spam either

4-This one is something I also thought of but between server ticks and timers I think its too inconsistent, would be better imo if it worked in a charge system like haima

5-Shields do not stack with themselves so by doing this you\re wasting a lot of potency and kinda stepping on panhaima's niche, would rather have a single shield+mit as others have pointed out

6-you mean 170 every tick? On top of normal dosis heal? That would be broken af tbh

Now imo, the idea of the toxicons is good but since its a resource gained through gcd heals only, it creates a situation where it competes with dosis instead of working alongside it

If I were in charge of "fixing it" I would add a cd of my own
-sge combo: changes dosis and dyskrasia to have 2 combos depending on which you press first (dosis->dyskrasia or dyskrasia->dosis) one of them giving a dps buff and the other being melee range with higher damage, 30s cd and 3 charges. Every finished combo gives addersting

Now we follow your toxicon idea of reducing phlegma cd by 15s (while making sure heal to get addersting is not a gain)
And finish by making phlegma reduce the combo cd by 15s too

That way there would be a rotation of cds between phlegma->combo->toxicon and we use dosis and E!dosis as filler inbetween

My only suggestion for SGE is for Kardia to proc on every action via just attacks. While SGE has plenty of oGCDs, when crap hits the fan and you're forced to GVD heal for whatever reason (namely those no mitigation tanks that collect vuln stacks like they're mog tombs). Kardia is dead when your spamming E.Diagonsis and being without your regen is very noticeable.

I'm bitter, as much as I want to see more suggestions for healers, the last LL showed us that all we'd get is more radius and less mp consumption for whm. I guess we'll see in 7.0 for one more 3min oGCD heal.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

My only suggestion for SGE is for Kardia to proc on every action via just attacks. While SGE has plenty of oGCDs, when crap hits the fan and you're forced to GVD heal for whatever reason (namely those no mitigation tanks that collect vuln stacks like they're mog tombs). Kardia is dead when your spamming E.Diagonsis and being without your regen is very noticeable.

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I think that ruins a fairly fun aspect of SGE, determining whether you need to heal or whether DPSing would give you enough healing as well as getting the fight over quicker. I feel like that will make a lot of people like SGE a lot less.

I am not a healer main by any stretch, but SGE was definitely my favorite healer in EW. I would agree that DPS spam on healers is boring and should be looked at, but I don't like the changes that have been suggested in here.

It would be nice if Taurochole would be a shield instead of a heal to have better synergy with the 10% damage reduction (Kerachole is good IMO). A button that would temporarily make Kardia on all part members might be cool (Maybe an upgrade to Soteria).

Otherwise, I feel like it's fairly clean.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I think that ruins a fairly fun aspect of SGE, determining whether you need to heal or whether DPSing would give you enough healing as well as getting the fight over quicker. I feel like that will make a lot of people like SGE a lot less.

I am not a healer main by any stretch, but SGE was definitely my favorite healer in EW. I would agree that DPS spam on healers is boring and should be looked at, but I don't like the changes that have been suggested in here.

It would be nice if Taurochole would be a shield instead of a heal to have better synergy with the 10% damage reduction (Kerachole is good IMO). A button that would temporarily make Kardia on all part members might be cool (Maybe an upgrade to Soteria).

Otherwise, I feel like it's fairly clean.

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It's not really a matter of healing or DPSing. If you've burned thru your oGCDs and have to GCD heal, you're much harder pressed as a SGE than on WHM/SCH/AST to actually make it thru unscathed. Your GCD heals are already weaker to losing that Kardia regen on top just makes a bad situation worse. It's mostly just to help out bad SGEs because I'm tired of dying on my DRK on the last pull of Tower of Zot

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

It's not really a matter of healing or DPSing. If you've burned thru your oGCDs and have to GCD heal, you're much harder pressed as a SGE than on WHM/SCH/AST to actually make it thru unscathed. Your GCD heals are already weaker to losing that Kardia regen on top just makes a bad situation worse. It's mostly just to help out bad SGEs because I'm tired of dying on my DRK on the last pull of Tower of Zot

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Ahh I see, alright I can understand that. Eukrasian Diagnosis and Adlo are identical, but you essentially lose out on the fairy heal when comparing the two AND Spell speed; Wouldn't it make more sense to buff up Eukrasian Daignosis though maybe? I don't know. I understand your point though.

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

The general sentiment is Sage's honestly are what they tried to do with Bards. DPS Healers who focus on DPS instead of healing. I have seen alliances mass quit after getting all Sages on the team.

Honestly, I don't consider Sages Healers or good healers in fact when it comes down to it if I get a Sage in my party I automatically will commend anyone but a Sage. With the 6.1 patch increasing healing spells I think the developers have gotten the hint we want Healers who can actually do more Healing instead of DPSing.

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that is a very bias for sages do tons of dps while doing great heals and migi is needed if sages was bad then why would there be 3 or more of them in alliance. Anything that is bad ofc whm in this instance it makes sense you see more of a certain job and i never see any alliance rage quit if its mass sages myself included. compared to sch and whm that still has issues like whm lack of ultities and mp issues and mobility and sch being locked out of some their stuff with their clunky pet its no wonder you see so much sage or maybe ast. Sage kit is godly if used properly even if a few tweaks maybe needed. Tbh sages is more gonna press heal than whms will who to me are the top dps bots so am not sure why it seem your stating sages dont heal.

back on topic i like these ideas but i hope soteria pepsi gets a rework and incarus need to not let us target bosses or mobs only allies. I also wish it dont have that slight lag animation when you lag else am happy atm with sage.

I'm in the boat that SGE is pretty okay for now. It's pretty strong in its niche. I do like that SCH has the stronger barriers and SGE has consistent damage mitigation.

I'm not even going to quote that troll but SGE is a very strong healer and if you think DPS healers shouldn't exist, then I'd suggest you uninstall the game and touch grass. You clearly can't take responsibility.

There's a couple things that SGE suffer from. Toxicon being locked behind GCD ST shield. The least they could do is make Toxicon dps neutral.

Pepsi as AoE Soteria is good idea.

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

I'm in the boat that SGE is pretty okay for now. It's pretty strong in its niche. I do like that SCH has the stronger barriers and SGE has consistent damage mitigation.

I'm not even going to quote that troll but SGE is a very strong healer and if you think DPS healers shouldn't exist, then I'd suggest you uninstall the game and touch grass. You clearly can't take responsibility.

There's a couple things that SGE suffer from. Toxicon being locked behind GCD ST shield. The least they could do is make Toxicon dps neutral.

Pepsi as AoE Soteria is good idea.

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uh i think sage barrier is stronger least e diag not our e prog. if u slap zoe physis krasis and e dia crits i either cover my entire hp bar or a dps hp bar or least half of a tank hp bar slap on pani and hami too oh goodness but sch i feel for sure have better aoe migi if crit cata with spread via dt. yeah i wish we have pepsi rework to be dt like instead. Also yes i dont have an issue with toxi but gosh having to spam e diag to use toxi is silly indeed with same dy potency

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Originally Posted by elioaiko

I'm in the boat that SGE is pretty okay for now. It's pretty strong in its niche. I do like that SCH has the stronger barriers and SGE has consistent damage mitigation.

I'm not even going to quote that troll but SGE is a very strong healer and if you think DPS healers shouldn't exist, then I'd suggest you uninstall the game and touch grass. You clearly can't take responsibility.

There's a couple things that SGE suffer from. Toxicon being locked behind GCD ST shield. The least they could do is make Toxicon dps neutral.

Pepsi as AoE Soteria is good idea.

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They haven't touched on misery for whm so I don't see why they'd do it for toxicon at this point. How better the gameplay would be with such a seemingly simple change.

I want to say. I haven't been with the game all that long, about a year and a half I think. I came from World of Warcraft a few months before Blizzard started to reap what they had sown there, fleeing a toxic community, bad writing, over homogenization of roles/classes and an overall dumb down of the game. When I started there, you could role up a character and through ability trees, really design something around how you liked to play, your character felt unique, the classes had identities. The game was great. Then...Blizzard started trying to make it fit more people, started homogenizing the classes, started dumbing things down until we lost our trees altogether, until you just built your character according to whatever the Meta theorycrafted by either PVP or PVE top players had figured out and posted to Icy-Veins. A Mage was a Warlock with different animation and colors. A Druid healed like a Shaman/Paladin/Priest, they really aren't too different anymore.

I am watching, listening and reading here...and I am seeing alarmingly, many of the same complaints coming from long time players of FFXIV that I watched in the forums of World of Warcraft back toward the end of Wrath of the Lich King...when Blizzard started really homogenizing things and dumbing their game down. I just want to drop that observation here now...that Square Enix needs to start listening, because this is just about Deja Vu for me and I don't like seeing it here for the game I've come to love and call home.

Job Identity MATTERS. Do not make one healer play like another, don't make any job play like another. Players start loosing interest and you'll end up like World of Warcraft, hemoraging players who are trying to find something that provides that special immersion and rich game experience that only comes, when a Sheild Healer doesn't run like a Pure Healer. I run Sheilds here. SCH and SGE and I leveled up a WHM so I could understand the play and feel and know how to best work alongside that type as a Sheild. Right now? There is a difference, it's there, it's lovely and I beg on my knees for it to stay that way. From my point of view? FFXIV offers that special feel to it's jobs. Please...do not sacrifice Healer identity to make them into DPS, buff the DPS jobs instead. Let Healers be healers. In Downtime, as a heal? I'd love something in my toolkit that allowed me to implement support throughout the raid/party. Something that let me buff a tank mitigation when a tank buster started rolling, something that let me pass around a DPS buff between ranged and melee depending on the situation. The ability to grant speed to the raid to run from an aoe effect and dodge it. There's more than just DPS that can fill down time! FFXIV is so much better written and plays so well compared to the game I left. I beg of the Devs, don't dumb your game down, don't homogenize your jobs...don't walk the same path Blizzard did.

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Originally Posted by Desna

I want to say. I haven't been with the game all that long, about a year and a half I think. I came from World of Warcraft a few months before Blizzard started to reap what they had sown there, fleeing a toxic community, bad writing, over homogenization of roles/classes and an overall dumb down of the game.
The game was great. Then...Blizzard started trying to make it fit more people, started homogenizing the classes, started dumbing things down until we lost our trees altogether

I am watching, listening and reading here...and I am seeing alarmingly, many of the same complaints coming from long time players of FFXIV that I watched in the forums of World of Warcraft back toward the end of Wrath of the Lich King...when Blizzard started really homogenizing things and dumbing their game down. I just want to drop that observation here now...that Square Enix needs to start listening, because this is just about Deja Vu for me and I don't like seeing it here for the game I've come to love and call home.

FFXIV is so much better written and plays so well compared to the game I left. I beg of the Devs, don't dumb your game down, don't homogenize your jobs...don't walk the same path Blizzard did.

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You do realize Wrath of the Lich King was when WoW was at it's peak it gave everyone but the hardcore minority what it wanted. DKP Guilds were shamed to the point where they were required to list they were a DKP Guild as a Scarlet Letter so people knew to avoid those evil people or they knew what they were getting into. Ghostcrawler hated the fact Wrath was easy and tried to make the end of Wrath harder. I remember when dual speccing was announced to be a raid mechanic which would cost gold and summon stones and require a raid to do. Thankfully that did not happen but...

He got his wish with CATA and then thats when everyone started leaving when ghostcrawler made his infamous, 'WoW, Dungeons are Hard' https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...geons-are-hard

Then of course the suits demanded he make the game easy again with the next expansion so what does he do? He makes the joke race real with a disney expansion and then everyone started leaving in droves who held on after the game was made harder and Ghostcrawler resigns.

Those who stayed on were the Hardcore Minority and more and more features in WoW become grinding to appease its user base but like Everquest or FFXI eventually the hardcore minority gets lonely in their ghost town servers and go to popular ones and demand they become harder. Being more like Wrath of the Lich King is a good thing. FFXIV 1.0 was built for the hardcore minority and it failed and they had to destroy and rebuild the entire game because the game was not profitable because it appeased the hardcore minority which is not profitable.

If they make the game harder like you suggest then like CATA the game would go downhill fast but this game already experienced that but the question is would the repeat the errors of redesigning the game to appease you people again?

I think you miss the whole point.

It's not about difficulty or harder content.

It's about classes having identity, avoiding dumbing down and don't go further in homogenization.

Something can be easy without being dumb.

An aoe kardia effect would be awesome, and I'd agree it'd be nice if the job leaned more on the shielding aspect, instead of regens, but I'm fairly certain that was done mostly so it could be paired up with SCH without much issues - when I'm paired with one in DF, I just play pretend to be a WHM and never touch E diagnosis/prognosis

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Originally Posted by Allegor

An aoe kardia effect would be awesome, and I'd agree it'd be nice if the job leaned more on the shielding aspect, instead of regens, but I'm fairly certain that was done mostly so it could be paired up with SCH without much issues - when I'm paired with one in DF, I just play pretend to be a WHM and never touch E diagnosis/prognosis

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I mean I never touch Diagnosis/Prognosis anyway unless it's prepull or a phase change.

I've been playing SGE and GNB interchangeably hardcore since EW and feel SGE is pretty much great in almost all its execution.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

It would be nice if Taurochole would be a shield instead of a heal to have better synergy with the 10% damage reduction

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Well it works with SGE because the goal is to pop the taurochole to recover from damage, and then use dosis to keep filling it back up while the mitigation or regen from another skill helps fill them back up(and not to clash with Adlo)

No one can (or should) be able to instantly pre-emptively negate a buster without a GCD imo. I don't know anyone who really can. Besides if a buster is coming in a krasis + zoe + e.diag if you're REALLY worried can cover most anything even if the tank refuses to mit for the buster. Especially if it crits, I can hit for almost a whole healthbar half the time.

But for recovery the choles are amazing because you dosis > dosis > Tankbuster > Taurochole > Tank gets a big heal and mitigation > takes less damage as you use more dosis. It's actually a really well thought out mechanic imo that feeds into the dosis/passive heal if you're staying on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

It's not really a matter of healing or DPSing. If you've burned thru your oGCDs and have to GCD heal, you're much harder pressed as a SGE than on WHM/SCH/AST to actually make it thru unscathed. Your GCD heals are already weaker to losing that Kardia regen on top just makes a bad situation worse. It's mostly just to help out bad SGEs because I'm tired of dying on my DRK on the last pull of Tower of Zot

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I think a big thing people constantly forget about is pepsis. In the new 24 man alone due to the wipes and constant deaths I've used pepsis more in that fight than ever before because it just makes sense. I can move, aoe shield, pop shield, pop shield can crit(!), and shield again to cover most if not all mechanics in the fight/s.

The goal (for me) with SGE is just to keep undercapped by one on addersgall and use holos physis and kerachole to mitigate 80% of the remaining damage. Pan/Haima as well due to lack of any further stacking after EX1 and EX2 are bonkers heals/shields that you can basically just pop off with whenever you want. SGE is not wanting for heals by a long shot.
If you're still levelling (assuming based on the Zot comment) I'm wondering why you're dying if the DRK is doing his job? Because of the short CD the goal is to just alternate your mit over and over. First pull Kerachole and Sorteria, Second pull Taurochole and Physis, and kerachole is on such a short cooldown and at level 78+ has a regen effect. Kerachole can do most the job passively but even if you do burn through your gall somehow, you can still not Eukrasia and just do the regular aoe heal if needed (which is only 100 potency less than medica) or use the aforementioned e.prog + Pepsis shatter.

Don't sleep on Pepsi Cola. -nod-

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

If you've burned thru your oGCDs and have to GCD heal, you're much harder pressed as a SGE than on WHM/SCH/AST to actually make it thru unscathed. Your GCD heals are already weaker to losing that Kardia regen on top just makes a bad situation worse. It's mostly just to help out bad SGEs because I'm tired of dying on my DRK on the last pull of Tower of Zot

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Can confirm this.

On the hands of inexperienced players who plays a SGE (and SCH too to slightly lesser extent), in such dire situations they're pretty much gambling on whether their GCD shield criticals or not. That is, IF the SGE even tries to use E.Diagnosis. If for whatever reason they came to conclusion that spamming Diagnosis is a better option in that case, you, as a DRK, are doomed lol.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

I'm wondering why you're dying if the DRK is doing his job?

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The person you're replying IS the DRK. The underperforming player is the SGE they got paired with in their story, just letting you know.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

Don't sleep on Pepsi Cola. -nod-

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I still personally think Pepsis is such an underwhelming option SGE have. It's 'enough' at best... but between Ixochole, Kerachole, Physis II, Holos, Panhaima, and Zoe+Pneuma, those are bonker-degree of free healing they can throw out before having to touch the Pepsi. Across my quite limited time dabbling with SGE (I play other 3 more often), I could probably name the amount of times I used Pepsis in emergencies in two hands. More often than not, waiting a few more seconds to wait for that Physis II + Ixochole are just as viable, albeit more efficient than doing the former.

But maybe I need more clown fiesta parties to have more say... lol.

Imo people who play dark cant be mad at sch or sge. Even the experienced of us cant easy keep up on big pulls with dark. easy as ast or whm and thats more a dark issue with their lack of defensive options compared to the other 3 tanks. Tbh sometimes I will just leave if I get dark as tank if certain type of dungeons. Cant blame the player all time its just bad design. When am with warrior and pld I press 0 to 1 heal. 1 or 2. dark is my entire kit and they still oops over as sage. Now ast and whm no issue cause holy stun does ease mass pressure and as well ed and lp can be a miracle

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Can confirm this.

On the hands of inexperienced players who plays a SGE (and SCH too to slightly lesser extent), in such dire situations they're pretty much gambling on whether their GCD shield criticals or not. That is, IF the SGE even tries to use E.Diagnosis. If for whatever reason they came to conclusion that spamming Diagnosis is a better option in that case, you, as a DRK, are doomed lol.



The person you're replying IS the DRK. The underperforming player is the SGE they got paired with in their story, just letting you know.



I still personally think Pepsis is such an underwhelming option SGE have. It's 'enough' at best... but between Ixochole, Kerachole, Physis II, Holos, Panhaima, and Zoe+Pneuma, those are bonker-degree of free healing they can throw out before having to touch the Pepsi. Across my quite limited time dabbling with SGE (I play other 3 more often), I could probably name the amount of times I used Pepsis in emergencies in two hands. More often than not, waiting a few more seconds to wait for that Physis II + Ixochole are just as viable, albeit more efficient than doing the former.

But maybe I need more clown fiesta parties to have more say... lol.

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Agreed I hardly or forget pepsi alot what you state is enough to handle mass damage. Pepsi should be reworked to be DT. one thing both sge and sch still fails to me vs old noct stance is crummy party shields. the single ones is beastly and chunky on crits but party ews. Miss aspect noct + celestial shield party stack least pani and hami though also burst heals so it makes up for something compared to succor.

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

The person you're replying IS the DRK. The underperforming player is the SGE they got paired with in their story, just letting you know.

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Ah apologies my reading comprehension is apparently garbage and I misunderstood the phrasing.

IN regards to the rest I don't feel like people understand that you don't HAVE To be allergic to GCDs to still do good dps. I'm still usually top dps of healers minus when the other(s) have BiS/Savage Gear, despite using diag and prog. -shrug-

If even a sliver of shield is there or if a little duration is left you can get easy extra heals and I've had plenty of times where I've recovered while solo healing in the 24 man because of Pepsis being a free instant 350 pot heal that can crit.

Aside from Savage (Which this is the first expac I've done savage healing so my experience is admittedly limited) SGE has no issues with its kit in 99% of the content.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

Imo people who play dark cant be mad at sch or sge.

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Not sure I agree with this take. While yeah if you're under geared it can be really difficult it's not any "more" difficult than SCH's recovery options in the same scenario imo. Sorteria + choles tends to do enough usually, but I also keep up with gear (except for BiS) so maybe that's where my perspective is skewed somewhat?

That's not meant to be a jab but higher ilevel will obviously have an effect on my interactions with healing in general.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

one thing both sge and sch still fails to me vs old noct stance is crummy party shields.

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Zoe + Aoe Shield or Zoe + Shield while Physis is active is great. I've created some meaty shields in current content there. But again it might be gear related that's skewing my perspective.

*EDITED*

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

Well it works with SGE because the goal is to pop the taurochole to recover from damage, and then use dosis to keep filling it back up while the mitigation or regen from another skill helps fill them back up(and not to clash with Adlo)

No one can (or should) be able to instantly pre-emptively negate a buster without a GCD imo. I don't know anyone who really can. Besides if a buster is coming in a krasis + zoe + e.diag if you're REALLY worried can cover most anything even if the tank refuses to mit for the buster. Especially if it crits, I can hit for almost a whole healthbar half the time.

But for recovery the choles are amazing because you dosis > dosis > Tankbuster > Taurochole > Tank gets a big heal and mitigation > takes less damage as you use more dosis. It's actually a really well thought out mechanic imo that feeds into the dosis/passive heal if you're staying on top of it.

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Agree on all points, someone just brought it up and I thought that it would be "cool", but you're right. I had thought that it would be similar to Divine Benison/Celestial Intersection in terms of shielding with an OGCD, but I understand your points.

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

Agree on all points, someone just brought it up and I thought that it would be "cool", but you're right. I had thought that it would be similar to Divine Benison/Celestial Intersection in terms of shielding with an OGCD, but I understand your points.

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Yeah I normally just let Tauro do the work or I'll sorteria after the Tauro so I can just keep dpsing while burst healing.

If I see the tank going low a lot (like yesterday in the 24 man) from busters I'll [krasis + e.diag] or [zoe + e.diag] just to be on the safe side. If it crits, they're good for a LONG while. If it doesn't, they're still taken care of.

I've kept tanks alive with like 4 vuln stacks at some points. SGE kit's "layering" is super satisfying.

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Originally Posted by Tobias_Azuryon

Ah apologies my reading comprehension is apparently garbage and I misunderstood the phrasing.

IN regards to the rest I don't feel like people understand that you don't HAVE To be allergic to GCDs to still do good dps. I'm still usually top dps of healers minus when the other(s) have BiS/Savage Gear, despite using diag and prog. -shrug-

If even a sliver of shield is there or if a little duration is left you can get easy extra heals and I've had plenty of times where I've recovered while solo healing in the 24 man because of Pepsis being a free instant 350 pot heal that can crit.

Aside from Savage (Which this is the first expac I've done savage healing so my experience is admittedly limited) SGE has no issues with its kit in 99% of the content.


Not sure I agree with this take. While yeah if you're under geared it can be really difficult it's not any "more" difficult than SCH's recovery options in the same scenario imo. Sorteria + choles tends to do enough usually, but I also keep up with gear (except for BiS) so maybe that's where my perspective is skewed somewhat?

That's not meant to be a jab but higher ilevel will obviously have an effect on my interactions with healing in general.


Zoe + Aoe Shield or Zoe + Shield while Physis is active is great. I've created some meaty shields in current content there. But again it might be gear related that's skewing my perspective.

*EDITED*

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my gear is up to par at least 590 but i dont play the game as much tbh. overall sorry for the mis understanding in my experience trying to keep heals on a dark knight vs the other 3 tanks is a big difference and more tactical, ofc if I use a ast whm for sure it aint an issue as big as sge/sch. whm holy reduces the stress and ast light speed ed and inter spells makes it easier with dark night.

Finally true i do the combo u say for big shields but i admit its mostly or all the time i do that on e diag and not e prog so i confess my guilt there haha as i use kera with phy and ixo to cover after damage so barely do e prog. I still want pepsi to be like dt to spread that huge e diag crit shield. i strictly meld mas crit and det.

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Originally Posted by IceBlueNinja

I still want pepsi to be like dt to spread that huge e diag crit shield. i strictly meld mas crit and det.

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I like the whole reverse emergency tactics thing personally. That and because it can crit and be used while moving you can essentially be moving for a mechanic, e prog/diag + Pepsis for burst aoe heals on the move. Super tasty

I hope it aint asking for much but I woud like zoe to be 60 secs instead of 90 and taro 20 seconds cd. 90 and 40 sec seem abit of a gap but just my thoughts. Also incarus horrid landing delay. Make it be like blm/scions tele plz.

Tauro on 20s would be unreasonably strong for single target, though.
The mitigation has 15s duration so you could theoretically keep up almost constant 10% mitigation with Tauro alone. Not to mention similiar skills from other healers are on 40-60s cooldown. Giving only Sage a juicy cooldown reduction while ED, Excog and Tetra keep their cooldown seems highly unfair.
Not that tanks really need that much healing nowadays, but still ...

I can get behind the Zoe cooldown reduction though because GCD heals aren't bread & butter, they're used fairly rarely. It would allow to use it on one other skill between Pneumas if needed. Not something that would make Sage op by any means and give Zoe a more flexible use than "keep for mega lazor pew pew".

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

Tauro on 20s would be unreasonably strong for single target, though.
The mitigation has 15s duration so you could theoretically keep up almost constant 10% mitigation with Tauro alone. Not to mention similiar skills from other healers are on 40-60s cooldown. Giving only Sage a juicy cooldown reduction while ED, Excog and Tetra keep their cooldown seems highly unfair.
Not that tanks really need that much healing nowadays, but still ...

I can get behind the Zoe cooldown reduction though because GCD heals aren't bread & butter, they're used fairly rarely. It would allow to use it on one other skill between Pneumas if needed. Not something that would make Sage op by any means and give Zoe a more flexible use than "keep for mega lazor pew pew".

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Agreed I had to rethink the taro thought that would be abit wee op haha.