Garlean Inability to use magic.

Google fails me in my search for why Garleans cannot use magic.

I had assumed it was genetic since it is passed on to their children, but it cannot be the physical body that is the limitation. Otherwise Elidibus would not have been able to use magic in Zenos' body.

So that makes it a matter of their soul. Which also opens up the concept that traits of a soul, such as the inability to use magic, can be passed on to children.

Is there anything in lore that goes over this more in depth?

There is also the possibility that Elidibus changed the body somehow via magic to undo the limitation before going into it. That could open up some interesting plotlines if someone is able to find the switch inside the Garleans to turn magic access back on.

Does anyone here think this will be explored more in coming game content/expansions or just a case of "They can't except when we want them to. Don't ask questions"?

It's stated that the Resonant procedure was originally designed to simply enable the Garlean physiology to use magicks, so I'd assume there's a physical component to it on top of the soul-altering aspect that imbues the subject with an artificial Echo.

Assuming we get a proper Ilsabard/Garlean-focused expansion to tie up loose ends, I'd be really surprised if the subject didn't come up again as I'd think the prospect of creating more Resonant-enhanced soldiers would've been very appealing given how effective it was with Zenos. Its utilization in the Bozja storyline was...disappointing to say in the least, as it was basically just a throwaway plot device that didn't consider any of the deeper implications like the human resources involved.

All Garleans lack the "genetic" trait needed to manipulate aether, however pure blooded Garleans may "see" it with their third eye.
As they lacked aetherial manipulation, aka magic, they were at an extreme disadvantage to every other spoken, beast, or monster on the star, all of which can "use magic" to some degree.
That's why they went all techie after being displaced by all the spoken races and used that technology to subjugate ones who could use magic, and use them as cannon fodder in conquesting the rest of the star.

Fun Fact: Thancred Waters, even though he is a Hyru Midlander and a Scion, can't manipulate aether.

Well Zenos is a special case considering who his great grandfather is. So, he's already cheating. There are some who are able to use magic. They're an interesting race as if I have my lore correct their ancestors were those who lived in the clockworks city of Galug. Back during Ramza's time. Which I want to say could use magic? Then they just happen to be chased from Corvos the area that G'raha is from. You know the people who still had Allagan royal blood being passed down.

Thancred was able to use magic and his own aether before being altered by the use of the spell Flow. He can sort of use his own aether still, but it's harder. It's why he nearly died during his fight with Ran'jit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Well Zenos is a special case considering who his great grandfather is. So, he's already cheating. There are some who are able to use magic. They're an interesting race as if I have my lore correct their ancestors were those who lived in the clockworks city of Galug. Back during Ramza's time. Which I want to say could use magic? Then they just happen to be chased from Corvos the area that G'raha is from. You know the people who still had Allagan royal blood being passed down.

---

The people of Goug could not use magic. The modern Garleans descended from 7 tribes of the same race of people, one of which are those from Goug. They all happened to converge on Corvus after Goug was destroyed and many eras after G'raha's ancestors had settled the land. Whether one or a few tribes of proto-Garleans were also settled in Corvus going back to the time of the Allagans, we do not yet know, but the Allag royal blood was only being passed down within a family of Miqo'te so they won't have anything to do with it.

As for the original question, this is what Koji Fox had to say a while back:

Quote:

---

This is an easy question. They are genetically unable to. It’s in their DNA, because they have all of this knowledge. They basically go and take over a bunch of countries, but they don’t destroy the nations when they go and take them over. They kill the leaders and then let the nations remain as they are, because they realize that’s a better way to have them remain loyal to the Garleans and not have an uprising. Because of that, the Garlean Empire has access to all of this information, but even with access to all of that knowledge on magic, they still can’t use it because it’s in their genetics. That’s why they’ve built up all of that machina to fight the magic that’s so powerful in Eorzea.

---

As far as Emet-Selch goes, he cheats and can cast magic on the Source due to the benefit of being an Ascian. He is basically a ghost of an Ancient possessing the body of a Garlean who was once his own person and had no capability to cast magic on his own. Whenever we interact with Emet-Selch on the First, he is not actually in the body of an Garlean, he possessed some random person and then molded his body to look like Solus because that's a form he's comfortable with.

Basically you have to consider any Garlean that was at any point possessed by an Ascian to be a special case. We can't just assume lineage was the key, because Varis didn't have noteworthy magical acumen. My guess is that the Ascians know how to modify a Garlean so they can use magic, but kept that secret to themselves. Which explains why Zenos had some ability when he got his body back; Elidibus had made it magic-capable, that didn't go away when Zenos took it back.

Although in retrospect, I don't actually remember Zenos doing any magic after taking his body back, so I'm not exactly sure where the 'Zenos can do magic' idea came from. Zenos mostly just spent his time after taking his body back loathing the fact he was watching Fandaniel ham it up.

He casually teleports away from the scene of Varis' death in the same manner as an Ascian initially, but never actually utilizes said ability again.

The shields he generates during the add phase in his Ala Mhigo fight as well as his duel with Gaius and Estinien are also presumably some manner of magic given how his Resonant eyes were glowing in the latter case.

I dont know if it was Fandaniel or not but the candles light as he's walking past with nothing lighting them up as he walked towards our body in the quest In From the Cold or whatever *shrugs*

(All the candles in long and short candelabra sconces and stuff nothing done with ceruleum due to the way the flames danced and flickered in the cutscene)

On a side note you can actually see your character in the top right portion of the screen at one point when Danny boy is talking about Anima (it's after the cut to Anima it self)

Garleans lack the ability to consciously manipulate aether, it seems to be a genetic limitation as we've never met a full-blooded Garlean that has been able to use magic naturally and unassisted (Lucia did used to cast Cure during Steps of Faith IIRC, but apparently she doesn't anymore.)

Garleans do have aether though, and they can force their bodies to utilize it through dangerous and/or questionable methods.

In the short story “The Hunt Begins” from the Chronicles of Light book, a young Zenos manages to pull off a sword technique that imbues a blade with aether by cutting open his palm and jamming a crystal fragment in it.

"He had buried it in his palm in a bid to force his body to release aether. And the risks had been great; in the worst case, his body’s aethereal balance could have been altered irreversibly, even fatally. Yet in full knowledge of the dangers, naught else would suffice but to sate his curiosity and put this new fighting style to the proof."

We also know that Garleans can use a form of magic through pacts with Voidsent, based on Reaper lore. Although whether that is entirely aetherically based remains to be seen.

At least some half-breeds can use aether, but we haven't met enough to know if all of them can or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirika-

A
Fun Fact: Thancred Waters, even though he is a Hyru Midlander and a Scion, can't manipulate aether.

---

Fairly certain he could initially. His loss of aether manipulation occurred after the events of Y'shtola teleporting them away during the post ARR events with them traversing through the lifestream.

People really in this thread saying that Zenos's ability to use magic stems from Elidibus alterations? Hello? He mantled Shinryu, an earthshatteringly big feat of aether manipulation. The Resonant procedure made him capable of magicks and so much more. Remember his words to Fordola? Something akin to, "What you have been gifted is greater than mere magic. Before such lesser light it is a second sun."

I mean, he also levitates in a meditative pose in the Ala Mhigo fight when he sets up the sword phase.

I guess people are confused since Hien puts a lot of emphasis on, "Magic in a Garlean body?" But that's more Hien not really knowing anything about Zenos, than Elidibus doing something ridiculously noteworthy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

The people of Goug could not use magic. The modern Garleans descended from 7 tribes of the same race of people, one of which are those from Goug. They all happened to converge on Corvus after Goug was destroyed and many eras after G'raha's ancestors had settled the land. Whether one or a few tribes of proto-Garleans were also settled in Corvus going back to the time of the Allagans, we do not yet know, but the Allag royal blood was only being passed down within a family of Miqo'te so they won't have anything to do with it.

---

Yet Ramza if he is of Goug was a WoL that would imply that he'd have to be able to use magic. In the fight against Ultima they create a magical barrier. Anyway if the Allagans were anything like the Machi they would have most likely taken similar steps to continue on some how. That and we also get told that one of the prominent families that came from Corvos is the house of Darnus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SannaR

Yet Ramza if he is of Goug was a WoL that would imply that he'd have to be able to use magic. In the fight against Ultima they create a magical barrier. Anyway if the Allagans were anything like the Machi they would have most likely taken similar steps to continue on some how. That and we also get told that one of the prominent families that came from Corvos is the house of Darnus.

---

Ramza's not from Goug. Mustadio in the original FFT was but this one doesn't have a third eye. He's obviously included in this band of WoLs as fanservice for FFT players since he was a member of that group so you could probably pass this one off as a half-Garlean, but we never get the chance to ask.

Regardless, all the Garleans on the ship talk about the people of Goug being ancient ancestors of Garleans if you talk to them after the lighthouse and at least one mentions the Goug inability to control magic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vyrerus

People really in this thread saying that Zenos's ability to use magic stems from Elidibus alterations? Hello? He mantled Shinryu, an earthshatteringly big feat of aether manipulation. The Resonant procedure made him capable of magicks and so much more. Remember his words to Fordola? Something akin to, "What you have been gifted is greater than mere magic. Before such lesser light it is a second sun."

I mean, he also levitates in a meditative pose in the Ala Mhigo fight when he sets up the sword phase.

I guess people are confused since Hien puts a lot of emphasis on, "Magic in a Garlean body?" But that's more Hien not really knowing anything about Zenos, than Elidibus doing something ridiculously noteworthy.

---

I believe the short story for Zenos showed him resort to shoving a crystal into his hand to overcome that limitation. Exactly how he was able to use magic pre Resonant or Shinryu is… unclear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

As far as Emet-Selch goes, he cheats and can cast magic on the Source due to the benefit of being an Ascian. He is basically a ghost of an Ancient possessing the body of a Garlean who was once his own person and had no capability to cast magic on his own. Whenever we interact with Emet-Selch on the First, he is not actually in the body of an Garlean, he possessed some random person and then molded his body to look like Solus because that's a form he's comfortable with.

---

He had clone bodies made for him, he mentions this when he's first introduced. He has many so he doesn't have to possess random people like Lahabrea did, which he takes umbrage with and mentions it "diminished" his ability and made him weaker: "According to Emet-Selch, Lahabrea had a habit of discarding host bodies when they were no longer useful, weakening himself and allowing King Thordan to absorb his essence." Having a body he already knows and likes is why he had the clones made and moving his soul into them and from a post from Anonymoose: "The clones were, according to Emet-Selch, just to save him the time and energy of molding a physical body to his preferred image." The clones were destroyed later by Estinien and Gaius iirc when they infiltrated the Capital, but by then Emet had his body and traveled to the First.

But since he is indeed an Ascian, he can cheat and use his own abilities even if he's in a cloned body of Solus.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Necrotica

Google fails me in my search for why Garleans cannot use magic.

I had assumed it was genetic since it is passed on to their children, but it cannot be the physical body that is the limitation. Otherwise Elidibus would not have been able to use magic in Zenos' body.

So that makes it a matter of their soul. Which also opens up the concept that traits of a soul, such as the inability to use magic, can be passed on to children.

Is there anything in lore that goes over this more in depth?

There is also the possibility that Elidibus changed the body somehow via magic to undo the limitation before going into it. That could open up some interesting plotlines if someone is able to find the switch inside the Garleans to turn magic access back on.

Does anyone here think this will be explored more in coming game content/expansions or just a case of "They can't except when we want them to. Don't ask questions"?

---

I wouldn't use Elidibus, or any Ascian. They cheat, and have been doing it for a very long time. It is even explicitly stated that Ascians/Ancients being so aetherially dense, cannot weld dynamis. This revelation came in EW. It's a major WTF moment because Elidibus is clearly using limit breaks when we face him as the WoL in the Seat of Sacrifice.

As you pointed out, it is canon that the Garleans cannot use magic due to their genetics. What remains a mystery is why that is the case for them, and even this basically comes down to the Garleans being given the short end of the stick in nearly every aspect of life you can think of, which is also canon. What we learn about the Omnicrons is very parallel to what the Garleans have had to do to survive. Unfortunately for the Garleans though, we have plot armor. Otherwise, they would very likely conquer all of Etheirys. They were well on their way until we showed up.

Speaking of garleans. Maxima looks perfectly like an ancient except for the eye, doesn't he?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erendis

Speaking of garleans. Maxima looks perfectly like an ancient except for the eye, doesn't he?

---

It's mostly a factor of the Garleans and Ancients having the same basic structure; elezen frame, hyur head. He's not even the most uncanny one; Themis has literally the exact same face as Ramza in the Ivalice raid story.

Is that something? Maybe, maybe not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

I wouldn't use Elidibus, or any Ascian. They cheat, and have been doing it for a very long time. It is even explicitly stated that Ascians/Ancients being so aetherially dense, cannot weld dynamis. This revelation came in EW. It's a major WTF moment because Elidibus is clearly using limit breaks when we face him as the WoL in the Seat of Sacrifice.

---

Limit Breaks use aether, it's described in quite a bit of detail in the lore books. The dynamis aspect to it is poorly explained, but I'd imagine it's what allows the sundered to 'break their limits' and use way more aether than they normally could.

Elidibus wouldn't need dynamis to do what we'd think of as limit breaks, his natural limits are way higher than ours. He just has to worry about expending the aether he's built up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Erendis

Speaking of garleans. Maxima looks perfectly like an ancient except for the eye, doesn't he?

---

Not really?

I suppose he looks more like an ancient than some characters, wouldn't say he's perfectly like one though. Maybe if he had a shave. :p

https://i.ibb.co/Pg4kXrd/FFXIV-Maxima.webp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jemachu

Emet-Selch states when you speak to him at level 74 that he possessed a random body upon travelling to the first. Not to mention that one of the main reasons he is so interested in the Exarch is because he was able to transport us through the rift to the first with our body, something Ascians are unable to do. Dialogue in question:

">> Choice 1: Why choose this form here in the first?
Emet-Selch: Well, well, what a curious question.
Emet-Selch: Mortal flesh is but the vessel into which we Ascians pour the elixir of our souls, moulding it as fits the occasion. Or not, if we so choose.
Emet-Selch: Be it for a year or a millennium, I prefer to retain the same form until my duty is done. So, after arriving here in the First, I fashioned some hapless body into the man you see before you.
Emet-Selch: Though as your friend over there can attest, there are those of us who forgo such alterations.
Emet-Selch: He was ever the rash one, Lahabrea. Jumping from vessel to vessel. Never heeding the toll it took on him."

---

Ah, I forgot about that, been a while. Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Not really?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jandor

I suppose he looks more like an ancient than some characters, wouldn't say he's perfectly like one though. Maybe if he had a shave. :p

https://i.ibb.co/Pg4kXrd/FFXIV-Maxima.webp

---

There's some differences, though I wouldn't consider Maxima to be too far off of an Ancient in terms of his appearance:

https://i.imgur.com/Qx9cjmX.jpg

I daresay it's likely a slightly tweaked model, even. Much in the same way as how Themius is quite obviously an altered Ramza and Varis' facial features are built off of those of a male Raen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

There's some differences, though I wouldn't consider Maxima to be too far off of an Ancient in terms of his appearance:

I daresay it's likely a slightly tweaked model, even. Much in the same way as how Themius is quite obviously an altered Ramza and Varis' facial features are built off of those of a male Raen.

---

Maxima is just a male Elezen with a third eye and hyur ears. He has an existing Elezen face that may be tweaked just a little bit but what makes it more obvious is the Elezen-only hairstyle and the beard that already exists on one of the Elezen faces.

I’m also pretty sure all of the Ancients use Elezen bodies and faces as well, other than the proportions, there’s a lot of Elezen-specific hairstyles in Elpis.

Matoya implied it takes a lot of aether to force yourself to see, the garlean eye might work the same way, being a giant aether sink.
Maybe being possessed by an ascian or voidsent allows the garlean body access to more aether than is needed to use their third eye, letting them use magic as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Maxima is just a male Elezen with a third eye and hyur ears. He has an existing Elezen face that may be tweaked just a little bit but what makes it more obvious is the Elezen-only hairstyle and the beard that already exists on one of the Elezen faces.

I’m also pretty sure all of the Ancients use Elezen bodies and faces as well, other than the proportions, there’s a lot of Elezen-specific hairstyles in Elpis.

---

Given what we know from SE on how the individual races came to be, I kind of think the Garlean body is a result of trying to replicate the body of the Ancients in the aftermath of the Sundering, but failing due to the Sundering's splitting of aether into shards and losing the ability to channel aether as a result. Just my theory though.