Enemy Action Markers

I’m not sure where to talk about this or if it’s been talked about, but I’m wondering if anyone else kinda wishes the visual markers for attacks from enemies were more consistent/explanatory? Some markers seem to do the same thing (stack on everyone, spread out, etc.) but I feel like their designs don’t explain what they mean at all. I know a lot of people say the fun is in figuring it out and I agree to an extent, and wouldn’t want the game to be made brain dead - but I think the markers could be made more cohesive and easier to understand. Some are fine but some are super abstract. This IS my first game with visual cues to follow like this (came from WoW) which is fun, but feels tricky/unpolished.

I feel like by the time you've reached Endwalker the meaning of most mechanic indicators should be pretty clear and that they don't need dumb things down further for the sake of people who skipped because it should only take one mistake before it becomes apparent what something is doing anyways.

The main issue is that it wasn't until Stormblood where indicators starting becoming largely standardized so you have jank like stack mechanics that are either totally unmarked or using a weird indicator even in easier ARR/HW content.

That's the point.

There's general signs but each tier some of them look slightly different per fight because they want them to look unique for that specific fight, not completely universal from the ground up.

Also not everything is released at the same time and they would've had to think about future proofing/solidifying the markers at some point and going back and rewriting code from years ago that they don't even remember or have properly marked(I assume).

Asking for universal markers from content released years ago is probably something you'd find in a 3rd party program tbh.

And no I don't particularly wish they were solidified and homogenized, games easy.

All the markers are pretty consistent actually.

https://imgur.com/a/c9oxF1d

There are at least two not shown in that list which is the new tank buster and shared tank buster markers. These appear as a red mark and a red stack mark respectively on the main tank.

The rest of the mechanics involve looking at the cast name of the boss or other enemies in the enemy list. These cast names will say things like "Left attack" or "Right attack" indicating that you should be on the opposite side, so check that your HUD Layout allows you to see the cast bar properly.

The next thing you should check is the debuff descriptions. If you move the status effects somewhere easy to see in HUD Layout, you can hover over them and see what they do. A common mechanic has been for a fire debuff to mean "stop moving" and for a blizzard attack to mean "keep moving while the cast happens".

Speaking of consistency, I think in general markers are pretty consistent from StB to EW contents:

See that 4 big ominous arrows centering at 1 person? Yep, that's a stack, ya'all better help that poor fella.
See that 6 big ominous arrows lining up on 1 person? Yep, that's a line-up, ya'all better make line instead of clumping together.
See that big red marker on your tanks? (Starting late 5.5 and to EW) That must be a tankbuster. Yep it is.
See that red/purple eye marker? Don't be a peeping tom.

ARR and HW content in other hand tend to be less consistent:

How many times you've seen players ignoring those purple threads?
How many times you've seen players run around like headless chicken in Sohm Al's 2nd boss when they get the red/blue arrow?
How many times you've seen players brought that purple arrow marker in WoD's Five-Headed Dragon -away- from the group then die alone with that 9999 digit evaporating from their carcass?

My hope is, when they work over the HW dungeons to make them trust suitable, they can standardise the markers at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Marxel

I know a lot of people say the fun is in figuring it out and I agree to an extent,

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Outside of HW, mostly they make sense. And blind runs will always be my #1 source of fun.

And this is why you shouldn't "boost" people through instances. Every marker has some sort of precedent in a non-lethal encounter with it (except maybe titan) early on in the game or at least before the "endgame" portion where it becomes lethal. If you play all the instances at least once at the proper level you will be exposed to them and learn. That seems to be the plan...


But "skip" to the end and you will have to learn them all at once with dire consequences.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

Every marker has some sort of precedent in a non-lethal encounter with it (except maybe titan) early on in the game or at least before the "endgame" portion where it becomes lethal.

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Its true, learn that stack marker before it becomes an Akh Morn.

They got standardized from 3.4, with Xelphatol, Gubal HM and Midas using the same markers for the same type of mechanics.

They sort of started using them in 3.3 as well in the trial and with certain prey markers in the dungeons.

I do want to point out that the Tankbuster thing is already getting a bit derpy now since it's the same exact marker for single target, small AoE around target, and cone AoE at target.

In general, it's still probably best to not be near the tank with the marker... but if it's the first version, I can also see that making ppl unnecessarily freak out if the Buster gets telegraphed during movement mechanics...

I get weirdo's in 85+ dungeons that think the tankbuster animation is a share and come stack on me xD It doesn't kill them, but geez some people learn slow...

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Originally Posted by Marxel

I’m not sure where to talk about this or if it’s been talked about, but I’m wondering if anyone else kinda wishes the visual markers for attacks from enemies were more consistent/explanatory? Some markers seem to do the same thing (stack on everyone, spread out, etc.) but I feel like their designs don’t explain what they mean at all. I know a lot of people say the fun is in figuring it out and I agree to an extent, and wouldn’t want the game to be made brain dead - but I think the markers could be made more cohesive and easier to understand. Some are fine but some are super abstract. This IS my first game with visual cues to follow like this (came from WoW) which is fun, but feels tricky/unpolished.

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One of the reasons why P4S part 2 is visually so bland is precisely it uses generic markers for everything. It's quite possibly as boring as E7S.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

https://imgur.com/a/c9oxF1d

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If someone wants to make an update to that that, there are a couple of notes to that list I see...

Earthshakers are actually cone AoEs rather than line AoEs.
For Acceleration Bomb, I would note that turning counts as moving, so it's better to just let go of your mouse and keyboard for a second when it's about to go off to avoid doing anything.
Distance Tethers, the damage calculation uses your position when the cast finishes, so the moment you see their cast bar disappear you can move back closer to the boss. Additionally, some bosses where they would charge at you with a distance tether, with the use of a gap closer you can stand far enough for mechanics and in the small window between the cast finishing and them rushing you can move back to melee range.

Also, there is one other marker missing, I dunno what to call it, but the knockback originating from a targeted player. Mostly used by Leviabeetus in E3 and the first boss in Stigma Dreamscape.

I noticed that one was missing but I think that one is pretty obvious and after it happens you are definitely going to understand it.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

All the markers are pretty consistent actually.

https://imgur.com/a/c9oxF1d

There are at least two not shown in that list which is the new tank buster and shared tank buster markers. These appear as a red mark and a red stack mark respectively on the main tank.

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There's also the AoE tank buster marker, which was first seen in NieR raids. Endwalker also added a new marker for Akh Morn style repeating stack damage, which is 3 stack markers piled on top of one another (it is not indicative on the amount of hits).

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Originally Posted by Sove92

There's also the AoE tank buster marker, which was first seen in NieR raids. Endwalker also added a new marker for Akh Morn style repeating stack damage, which is 3 stack markers piled on top of one another (it is not indicative on the amount of hits).

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That's what I was talking about earlier, it's not an "AoE tank buster" marker, it's just a "Tank Buster" marker in that it's going to hit the tank for a massive amount of damage. However, the actual move can be single target, small AoE around tank, or a cone AoE targeted at tank. All 3 versions are in use somewhere in EW now between dungeon bosses, trials and normal raids.

Off the top of my head... and iirc...

2nd boss 81dungeon, 2nd boss 89 dungeon, 1st boss 87 dungeon have the single target version... so if another player is standing next to the tank with the marker, they don't take any damage.

90 msq trial, p3n, and 3rd Yorha Alliance Raid have the small AoE versions. same exact marker but any players in close proximity to the tank will also take massive damage

89 msq trial and EX version of that trial have the cone AoE version. same exact marker, but any players in a cone AoE targeted at the tank will also take massive damage

The marker gets used way way way way more than that... virtually every boss has one now, but I can't remember off the top of my, or haven't tested which version each marker is yet to list. It could be that all dungeon versions are single target... but i'm not confident in my memory/testing to make that assertion

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

I get weirdo's in 85+ dungeons that think the tankbuster animation is a share and come stack on me xD It doesn't kill them, but geez some people learn slow...

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Tbf I thought similar as in Shb's EX it was used as a shared tank buster. Dunno why they made it the tank buster marker in EW. Imo it was unnecessary as by EW we learned which was a TB and which was an AOE previously and just to have it in EW and not retroactively added to the previous dungeons at least made it confusing for me at the start.

tbh, it could also be that there actually are minor differences in the 3 that I still haven't noticed... like additional dancing arrows or something. similar to the how old ahk morn is just a stack marker, but in EW they added a new marker for "persistent" stacks (or ahk morn stacks that do multiple hits on the stack marker) seen in the 83 trial and EX version and the 89 trial and EX version.

the only thing I've clearly seen a difference for is the new shared TB marker seen in the 89 trial (and EX version) and p2n.

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Originally Posted by Rowde

I do want to point out that the Tankbuster thing is already getting a bit derpy now since it's the same exact marker for single target, small AoE around target, and cone AoE at target.

In general, it's still probably best to not be near the tank with the marker... but if it's the first version, I can also see that making ppl unnecessarily freak out if the Buster gets telegraphed during movement mechanics...

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In general you just shouldn't be near the main tank. I dread healing Ramuh because there always seems to be one melee DPS (usually a dragoon for some reason) who stands right in front of Ramuh and gets the tank buster repeatedly. And they never think "Hey, maybe I shouldn't stand here"