Doton uses Single Target

Hello!

It's come to my attention that a lot of ninja's are using Doton on Bosses. Of course, a lot, might be a large exaggeration :D.


For those who don't know the math. Doton tics immediately and upon expiration (abouts) for 9 tics. 24,21,18,15,12,9,6,3,0ish . 9*70 for 630 vs 650 instant for Raiton.

Never is not an acceptable answer here. There are always instances where party buffs, debuffs, and timing at where a ninja is at in a rotation where a ninja can further optimize.

Under what particular situations are the Pro optimizer ninja players using Doton instead of Raiton?

The answer is never though. There's prepull Doton but outside of that Doton is always a damage loss on single target, no combination of raid buffs is going to change that. On top of that at 90 Raiton gives stacks of Raiju Ready which gives you access to even stronger abilities, so there's also that to take into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Gamerdude9

Never is not an acceptable answer here.

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What about "not ever?"

I do not feel like doing maths and I am not a pro Ninja player. However, I did want to point out Hollow Nozuchi, which some posters seem to be forgetting. I can easily imagine a situation during an add phase where you can use Doton on the single target boss, then turn your attention to the incoming adds and burst them down with Katon and your AoE combo, triggering extra damage on the boss everytime. But that seems like a very specialized moment.

Only on prepull. Thats it. Every other time on single target is a big no no.

Doton takes an additional second to execute over Raiton due to needing to enter three mudra commands as opposed to two. So even in a worst case scenario, you're losing 1 GCD every 2-3 times you use Doton over Raiton. That additional 60 potency is less than the 210 potency you'd get from just a Spinning Edge.

Also it's worth mentioning that in order to even get that extra 20 potency, the boss also has to stay in the floor circle for the entire cast, and this isn't always going to be the case. Bosses jump around, they go untargetable, and tanks sometimes just have to move them, meaning that if you lost even 3 seconds of the boss standing in the circle, you've lost potency over using Raiton. And neither of these things even consider what was already stated that by using doton, you also don't get your stacks of raiju ready.

Basically put, never ever ever use doton when there's only one target.

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Originally Posted by Gamerdude9

Doton uses Single Target

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Originally Posted by Bonkleberry

I can easily imagine a situation during an add phase

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That just don't add up.

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Originally Posted by baklava151

On top of that at 90 Raiton gives stacks of Raiju Ready which gives you access to even stronger abilities, so there's also that to take into consideration.

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But those stacks are lost on the first weapon skill used (stupid I know. . . )

Tbh I normally don't do it in prepull either because I pug and tanks never take it into consideration and pull to weird spots quite often.

Imo they should let us stack up on a Doton outside of combat so that we could just drop it during the opener at no Mudra cost.
It's really annoying how it's part of your opener but it's so dependent on the tank and awkward.

I imagine there are very niche scenarios where downtime would lead to Doton being a gain on single target (not that I've ever heard of them, I just imagine it's possible), but otherwise, no, it's never a good idea outside of prepull shenanigans.

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I imagine there are very niche scenarios where downtime would lead to Doton being a gain on single target (not that I've ever heard of them, I just imagine it's possible), but otherwise, no, it's never a good idea outside of prepull shenanigans.

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I suppose if downtime is 20s AND you're capped on mudras, dropping Doton right away would be a gain of a couple of ticks.

Mudra would be back by the time the boss comes back, and Doton would stick around for 4 sec.

Right?

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Originally Posted by AziraSyuren

I imagine there are very niche scenarios where downtime would lead to Doton being a gain on single target (not that I've ever heard of them, I just imagine it's possible), but otherwise, no, it's never a good idea outside of prepull shenanigans.

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It's possible that such a scenario could exist, but no such scenario actually exists in the game post-pull.

One day, maybe there will be a boss that's weak to heavy.

single target doton is called "std" for a reason. not even once

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Originally Posted by andrealfus

single target doton is called "std" for a reason. not even once

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This is the way.

iirc the only reason to use Doton is because you don’t have Meisui to make TCJ suiton a gain on single target, so basically only for Stormblood level-cap instances and one Shadowbringers dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

iirc the only reason to use Doton is because you don’t have Meisui to make TCJ suiton a gain on single target, so basically only for Stormblood level-cap instances and one Shadowbringers dungeon.

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At that point, you used Ten Chi Jin to set up a trick attack rather than using it into a meisui, it was a DPS increase at the time to use get a raiton and fuma while building to the suiton rather than spending all three mudras to do suiton.

This thread aged well.

It is hard to find any proper information about it in ENDWALKER and it is taken as default.

Nowadays Doton duration is reduced and even all ticks included it is never stronger than Raiton. Raiton simply outscales Doton.

There is however situational use of Doton if boss summons adds. However it is not single target anymore.

Doton low duration makes it very weak in single target. Still usable in multi, but not really that necessary either, skill lasting barely 16 seconds.

Highly suggest to use it only to place only in AoE situations with 3+ mobs, for 1-2 still single target rotation is just enough. Most of mobs are made to not even survive those 16 seconds of Doton duration, hence usage is without sense.

Unless you can get that juicy free Doton and reset mudras with Hide.

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Originally Posted by Shenken

Unless you can get that juicy free Doton and reset mudras with Hide.

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This is no longer a thing because they nerfed Doton to disappear entirely under the effect of Hide, so prepull Doton doesn't exist either.

So no, you never use Doton in single target situations.