Another month and no news on the state of ps5 with the live letter. As its nearing a year and the beta hasn't been updated since ending. Is it safe to assume that the ps5 bugs are staying long term and we should continue to use to ps4 version on ps5 indefinitely?
PS5 beta
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02-19-2022, 05:45 PMHawuhawuuPS5 beta
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02-19-2022, 06:04 PMRannie
Huh? The PS5 version. Has been released
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02-19-2022, 06:18 PMSlayer25cPs5 version no longer in beta lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu
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02-20-2022, 03:31 AMHawuhawuu
Thats the point.... it still hasnt been updated since beta was launched. We still have the massive framers drop bug for almost a year with no acknowledgement it exists. Try doing savage with unstable framerates....
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02-20-2022, 03:32 AMXaruko_Nexume
The PS5 version PLAYS like a beta. Its an embarrassment. PS4 version plays better. Sad.
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02-20-2022, 04:06 AMXenoSamurai
I've been playing the PS5 version since it came out and it has played totally fine, what are you guys talking about?
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02-20-2022, 04:24 AMXaruko_NexumeIt stuggles for me at even 1440p and then 4k setting is unplayable. My 2016 gaming PC literally runs it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoSamurai
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02-20-2022, 04:35 AMHawuhawuu
I have no issue on ps4 version 4k but my ps4 pro running at 4k is smoother than ps5 with ps5 version on 4k... is it wrong to assume a next generation game and console would have upgraded performance?
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02-20-2022, 04:46 AMXaruko_NexumeSame. If you haven't tried yet, the best console experience you will have with this game is if you download the PS4 pro version on the PS5 instead of the native PS5 version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu
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02-20-2022, 05:54 AMEorzeaWandererWith all due respect, not all players are sensitive to frame rate fluctuations.Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoSamurai
For many of us, the poor frame rate/constant stuttering was obvious immediately upon starting up the PS5 beta version and unfortunately nothing has changed since.
It's bad even on the 1080p setting; the resolution settings don't seem to change much.
This has been documented by Digital Foundry as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trIiUXdEyo0
--> Go to around 29 minutes in for a typical example of how different it is. Constant judder and frame drops plague all hub areas, even housing wards.
In any case the PS4 version running on the PS5 is the smoothest experience right now if you're on console. -
02-20-2022, 06:52 AMXmissionsX
Most probably they haven’t got time to fix it yet, the ps5 version is indeed dropping frames on odd places which it shouldn’t do because of the vastly improved hardware. It’s def not optimized for the ps5 if the ps4 backwards compat mode runs better then the ps5 version.
The big question is if they will take the dev time for it , before the graphics overhaul, personally I don’t expect they will. -
02-20-2022, 07:45 AMXenoSamuraiI just watched the video and I still don't really see it so you're right that not everyone is sensitive to it, I hope they will fix it for those that are.Quote:
Originally Posted by EorzeaWanderer
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02-20-2022, 08:03 AMVahlnirIt has but it still functions as though it is a beta build. It's pretty rough around the edges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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02-20-2022, 09:02 AMRamessesWait-- hold up, stop right there-- what? That is utter nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by EorzeaWanderer
What is even more alarming is the fact that you are using a single video from Digital Foundry to support your argument-- just so we are all very clear, you do realize that Digital Foundry has come under repeated fire for intentionally falsifying performance videos on the PS4 Pro and PS5? You also realize that many gamers have called them out for intentionally making misleading console performance videos to grow their channel through clickbait and polarized media mongering?
They are a very disreputable source of performance information on consoles and there are at LEAST two or three other very well-known unbiased you-tube channels that call them out on their crap-- go online and do your own research on this.
I've played this game on all three consoles (PS3, PS4 Pro and PS5) and I can categorically tell you that FFXIV runs smoother than butter on my PS5 console-- heck, there are multitudes of PS5 FFXIV players who stream on Twitch or post their PS5 videos on twitter and the game looks (and feels) great. In addition, here are a few you-tube video examples of other players having no issues:
Your argument and stipulations about the stuttering or poor frame rates (since the beta?) would have been justified if you simply posted up your own video of the issue here on the forums and a lot of us would have posted up several suggestions to on how to troubleshoot your issues.
Rather, you're posting potentially highly falsified second-hand fluff as gospel for your issues even though there are literally mountains of FFXIV videos exhibiting the solid sheer performance of the PS5 (even in high volume areas like 24-person raids or in Limsa).
Like I said-- post your own videos from your own PS5 and several of us can walk you through some suggestions that will vastly improve your console's performance. -
02-20-2022, 09:31 AMRannieIt functions fine for me in 4k mode on a 4k tv. *shrugs*Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
Btw I've played this game on PS3, PS4 and the PS5 (both ps4 version and currently the ps5 version) to make comparisons.
But eh if other people are having issues that sucks -
02-20-2022, 09:32 AMEorzeaWandererIf you are playing the PS5 version and don't perceive any problems, then great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramesses
The PS5 version is not *unplayable*.
It runs, albeit suboptimally.
Of course people will have gameplay videos of it *running*.
I'm not "making an argument" that I need to "justify" or "support". No need to do so, when countless others are experiencing the same thing*, and when videos exist featuring the use of frame-rate analytics tools showing that we're not crazy.
(*Indeed, it is reasonable to assume that *all* players are experiencing the same thing, as there is always a certain percentage of players who are unbothered by or not sensitive to frame rate fluctuations.)
The PS5 version runs with a choppy, uneven frame rate. It has since beta and it hasn't changed--the PS4 version in back-compat on PS5 is far smoother.
As such, the PS5 version needs attention from SE. -
02-20-2022, 09:45 AMtechnole
Last time I did any serious raid on PS5 was E12 savage before Endwalker, it was just fine performance wise. It's better than many people's GPUs.
Although I think I know what some people are talking about, you do some larger scale content like alliance raid sometimes it feels like a jumpy frame rate for a few seconds at 1440p. Like it could probably be tuned slightly better. -
02-20-2022, 10:37 AMRamessesCan you post a short video or clipped 10-sec share of your issue?Quote:
Originally Posted by EorzeaWanderer
I'm genuinely curious-- this is because on a few of my discords, every single person who had minor issues for FFXIV on the PS5 were totally fine after either redownloading the game, changing to ethernet cables (rather than WiFi) or tweaking a few of their settings particular to their TV type (amoung other things). -
02-20-2022, 12:07 PMGameovers
Huh? I'm on the PS5 cilent and I have little to no issues at all. Maybe I'm lucky but wow...
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02-20-2022, 02:55 PMImoen
The performance on ps5 is not as good as it could/should be, it's really smooth in some locations, but some fields, Lakeland and Garlemald come to mind, where the frames dip hard in spots when your camera swings certain directions. You can feel the controls get sluggish as it struggles to maintain frames. At least in 1440 mode.
With that said, it's not unplayable, or the worst thing in the world, it's... fine, but it's disappointing considering the hardware. I'm hyper sensitive to frame dips/stutters, visual artifacts and screen tearing though...(Especially in the sub 60 range) so there is that. For now I simply sit at my PC desk way more than I would like, with hope that they smooth it out a bit. -
02-20-2022, 04:30 PMVahlnirI've got a 4k TV and tried it in 4k mode. Other games handle it just fine like Dying Light 2 and Horizon Forbidden West. Those run like a dream in full graphics modes! The fps is god awful with max settings in FF XIV, so I don't use that specific mode. The middle mode isn't always awesome, but it's better than trying to run it in full 4k. It...has a ways to go before being tolerable in 4k mode. Hopefully the engine upgrades will address some of that. And yeah, I've seen the game from PS3 to PS5 too. PS3's fps wasn't always the issue. It was the gameplay lag. The PS4 version suffered from both at times, though usually it was just fps drops. Still, it ran well enough. The PS5 version makes the game look pretty good, but it could run a whole lot smoother. It simply wasn't ready to be released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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02-20-2022, 06:51 PMRannieI mean I don't know what to say at this point cause I'm not seeing it. I could just be that blind *shrugs* I won't say you aren't having those issues and I'm sorry you are. Ill even double check my setting to see if i may be limiting frame rates to see if I have the same issue but I'm almost positive that I have it full 4k. =) I would right now but I'm at work. Though to be honest I didn't see much issues with the PS4 version either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
Though, I will say I do wish that all the versions had a brightness adjuster... white hair in gridania with the full sun shining is meh and adjusting the color and brightness scheme or even the contrast ratio on my tv isn't helping it much.
Edit on 2/21/2022 4:31 AM Est
Holy mother of pickles I hit my posting limit...
So I did check my graphics and ran the last neir Raid and had some weird jerking with it but I had always chalked that up to my internet since I'm using wifi and most times it did coincide with my internet. So I'm guessing that's what it was all about right? It was rather annoying -
02-23-2022, 08:16 AMMememaiXIV
So I did check my graphics and ran the last neir Raid and had some weird jerking with it but I had always chalked that up to my internet since I'm using wifi and most times it did coincide with my internet. So I'm guessing that's what it was all about right? It was rather annoying[/QUOTE]
(sorry @Rannie, the quote went wrong when I tried to edit to the bit I wanted. Wasn't trying to steal from you!)
Yeah, I think the problem may be people's internet speeds.
I've had next to no issue on PS5, in fact it runs better than my studio PC (designed for pro-level audio production & video production).
Also beats the living daylights out of the PS4 version.
I am lucky enough to live in an area with particularly good internet, within a country with particularly good internet, on a wired connection.
Of course, your mileage may vary! & I'm not doing hardcore content by any means. -
02-23-2022, 01:38 PMKolainaThat hyperbole though. Don’t believe that for a secondQuote:
Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume
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02-23-2022, 07:50 PMSeraphor
As someone who's not hypersensitive to minute changes in framerate, the PS5 version is absolutely fine and I'd take instant loading and crisper visuals over 4 minute loading screens with imperceptibly smoother animations any day.
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02-23-2022, 09:57 PMXaruko_NexumeI really don't care if you do or not. One small correction, my GPU is from 2017 and not 2016. Other than that, 100% truthful and accurate statement. Most content on PS5 in 4k is unplayable, and even some in 1440p upscaled mode, like the Nier raids. Even just standing around Gridania in 4k is a slideshow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolaina
Unlike you, I generally think most people are good and no reason to lie, so if others are saying that it runs "fine" for them then I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt enough to consider it could be an issue with my TV, or a setting, or HDMI issue etc. But I have far too many other PS5 games that run astonishingly well. -
02-24-2022, 12:04 AMSqwallI have been playing on PS5 since the beta came out, and have never had ANY issues running savage content. Maybe it's your TV?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu
I'll never understand this conversation around that fps has to be 60fps or it's trash.
Playing Horizon Forbidden West in Resolution mode and it's 30 fps. And it's simply gorgeous! Framerate doesn't have to be 60....or 120. I remember a time when all you got was 30fps, and sometimes all you got was what the system could just muster up. N64 never broke 60 fps except for 1 game....F-ZERO. Everything else was 30 or sub 30.
The gaming community is just spoiled and expects 60 fps AND ULTRA quality. You want that? Don't play on PS5....play on PC....and spend nearly $2,000 on just a GPU.
The PS5 is an incredible machine, and I'm constantly in awe at what it can do for $500. Nigh instant load times alone is worth the price of admission. Horizon Forbidden West fast travel I spend more time looking on the map where I want to go then the load time takes....literally 3 seconds. -
02-24-2022, 12:21 AMVahlnirIt is NOT the fault of one's TV most of the time. It's simply a thing to have framerate drops in random places, though once you figure out where/when they happen it is easier to work around them. They aren't completely random. It is also likely dependent on which mode one plays the game in too. I'm guessing it's not too noticeable if you play in full 4k since the framerate is a constant 30. Not saying that 30 is bad by any means. Heck, I play DL 2 and Horizon currently with a constant 30 fps. Feels like 60 with how well they are optimized though. :p But using the UHD mode in FF XIV and expecting only small dips in fps (while getting huge dips in fps all depending on where your camera is aimed at the time and your location) is a bit jarring. So yeah, the PS5 version could still use some work, and it should be optimized way better than it is. Dismissing the issue just because you don't see it solves nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sqwall
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02-24-2022, 12:36 AMSacred-OblivionThe claim being made in this thread is that the ps4 version of FFXIV running on ps5 performs better than the native ps5 version running on ps5. With the PS5 you have the choice of playing the PS4 version of FFXIV (via backwards compatibility) or the native PS5 version of FFXIV. According to this rando youtube comment, here is why the PS5 version of FFXIV performs not as well as the PS4 version:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramesses
Makes sense if true. The PS5 app trades some frame rates for enhanced visuals over the PS4 app.Quote:
The reason for the big difference in performance between the native ps5 app and the ps4 pro version is due to the high quality ambient occlusion that is used on the ps5 app. This is a killer on pc as well at higher resolutions and is completely absent on the ps4 and ps4 pro version. Amazed to see this overlooked in a digital foundry video but ah well.
Would be really nice to see a 4k option for the game that scales back things like ambient occlusion and other taxing visuals features to allow for a mode that gets closer to that 60fps goal at 4k.
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02-24-2022, 01:09 AMCosmicCoqui
Well it was tested before and 4k mode is around 40fps average with dips going lower, 1440p mode is 60 but can dip around 55. Honestly nothing changed from the beta to the official release and wonder if SE will ever address this. Cause 4k mode is really sluggish given the dips that it makes it pointless to even use over 1440p. Really don't know why SE did not bother to optimize it better because Ps5 has the hardware to do better and yet seems they didn't really bother to make it work well.
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02-24-2022, 01:11 AMJin-
Upgrade your CPU. Mmorpgs are taxing in that area
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02-24-2022, 01:17 AMCosmicCoquiDon't need a pc troll in here over a ps5 issue..Quote:
Originally Posted by Jin-
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02-24-2022, 01:47 AMSqwallThe PS5 architecture and the game engine for an MMORPG don't compliment each other at all btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacred-Oblivion
A server sending you data to let you see what everyone is wearing, location, skills used, animation assets, stats, damage done of just my surrounding party members....it's a stupid amount of data being sent very quickly. That's just the network portion....that still needs to be processed at an intense rate.
The PS5 hardware could EASILY do what the developers want...but with the current state of the engine...it's just NOT optimized to render the "cone" of view on my end. When you go to an instance....your in a secluded world.
Example: Horizon Forbidden West is loading assets in your field of view. If it's in the field of view...it's rendered. If it's not....it's "waiting" as a low res (wire frame) asset until it comes INTO view, while everything you were JUST looking at...is no longer rendered. This saves memory, CPU throughput, and GPU throughput. This takes a stupid amount of optimization to "pull off the illusion", and the game engine needs to complement this 100%.
FFXIV engine can't allow for this....it has to load everything...render everything....light everything....shaders....textures....everything. And if EVERYTHING is UHD...then be prepared to deal with 30 fps. If SE wanted this to work at 60fps then they would need to redesign quite a bit of game assets, and the asset "call sheet" when it would need to be rendered.
i.e. ambient occlusion would not load for my client on a specific asset....until I look at that asset. This is "kind of" what they are doing with the graphics overhaul that was announced. If that was 1 month with everything they showed...i'm VERY impressed. That would be very hard to rework all those channels of game engine and code to get results like that, and utilize SSD technology to it's fullest.
My biggest concern is what they are targeting as acceptable FPS, and what clever tricks they will have to pull off to make work. I have faith in the hardware, but when you start mucking with gamecode....that's when things can turn ugly. -
02-24-2022, 04:05 AMXaruko_NexumeI think we likely found the problem here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacred-Oblivion
I think once we lose PS4 support and only PS5/PC they will have no choice but to fix/optimize it. Maybe with the upcoming graphics update they will, again, have no choice but to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCoqui
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02-24-2022, 04:41 AMSqwallI'm getting vibes from Stormblood taking the PS3 support out back "for processing". Stormblood was to ambitious for the PS3 to handle with it's already dated specs. FFXIV ARR came out in 2013....the same year the PS4 came out. Whoops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume
FFXIV got a MUCH NEEDED PS4 free upgrade in 2014 around August I want to say. Can't be certain. It was out before Heavensward (2015), and the fact that they kept PS3 support UNTIL 2017 when stormblood came out. Nearly 4 years after the PS4 released! Running in 4k was needed badly, and going from 1080p to 4k was a UI modders dream! Which also meant I could upgrade my TV from 44" to 55" and the same for PS5 upgrade when I bought a 65"
7.0 will be the last PS4 supported expansion I predict, and there will be a 4 versions of clients for 7.0. PS4, PS5, PC, MAC. 8.0 will obviously phase out PS4 support as 7.0 will bring a multitude of graphical upgrades. PS5, MAC, PC will undoubtedly reap the upgrades while the PS4 will still have limited graphical updates and eventually plateau and be phased out in 8.0. 8.0 will be like stormblood to the PS3, and in order for the game to get grander in scope those older systems need to lose support. SE isn't out of the woods yet, as they now need to make the decision to update 8 years worth of older limited content to be allow the entirety of FFXIV to match a certain graphical level.
i.e. When they added flying in the older ARR zones. It's a nice addition, but you can see the gears and mirrors behind the curtain if you fly in certain areas that you weren't supposed to see. Which would require development time to cover up sections that didn't need texture, collision. Yoshi P even mentioned it was a huge accomplishment they dev team did, that wasn't asked of them. They just wanted to do it, which he supported.
The greatest issue I see here is supply and demand. SE needs to look at the supply chain constraints. PS5's are hard to get currently. PC GPU's are over priced and in demand. XBOX S/X may have the same issues...but I haven't read up on that as much.
SE doesn't want another situation of purchasing servers for the Oceana datacenter. Delaying the graphical updates until 7.0 is smart and calculated decision.
A graphical update has incredible implications not just on hardware, but supply, legacy systems, legacy assets, and legacy code. Not to mention the amount of work that is required to develop, test, QA, and implement with patches. -
02-24-2022, 05:45 AMEorzeaWandererThank you for getting this thread back on track with some new and relevant information!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacred-Oblivion
These kinds of discussions always seem to turn into a confrontational vibe between those who want some technical issues addressed and those who don't think it's that important and (for some reason) get defensive.
The PS4 app in backwards-compatible mode runs at a smoother framerate on the PS5 than the PS5 native app on the PS5.
We just want to know:
a) why is this?
b) can SE acknowledge this and give us a plan/options to address it?
If ambient occlusion is indeed the cause, it would be nice to have the option turn it off.
The frame rate drops are worse than any benefit ambient occlusion provides (in my opinion).
If you play the PS5 version and don't perceive any problems, then you are good to go. The idea behind threads like this is not really about taking a poll as to who is bothered by inconsistent frame rate presentation and who is not. (This comment is directed to the thread as a whole and not the poster I quoted above.) -
02-24-2022, 06:35 AMSqwallI would support toggles for graphical features in favor of overall FPS increase. To be perfectly honest I don't notice much of a difference in lighting when i'm in 4k UHD mode. Sure it looks great, but I prefer smooth action over high resolution of lighting, textures, assets.Quote:
Originally Posted by EorzeaWanderer
I don't know how hard it would be to disable that out of the render or swap it with low/off/on. I don't know how much realism I need in an MMO, but I could live without it if it was a toggle option.
Now that I think about it there is a lot of things I live without. Party spell/action effects....OFF please. I just want to see my own.
Other Nit Picks...allow me to change and move the damage numbers in how they are presented. i.e. move the healing numbers away from my character to maybe the side of the screen idk.
- add positional marks on the weaponskill icons. Something as simple as an arrow down (rear) or to two arrows left and right (flank). Make it a toggle option for accessibility.
- expand the party/raid spell effects to more selective in what I want to see. Maybe as granular as spell effects for each role.
- added sound effects/vibration functionality that I can attach to a skill when it's off cooldown or available. Design a haptic feedback audio threw my controller. i.e. rampart feels different then vengeance. I can go into a separate effects page (like BLU magic spell book) where I can literally design how I want the game to notify me of certain criteria. Kinda done in macroing...but the game just does it for you. More User friendly.
-Animated floor markers that move around. Or can be manipulated to help with direction. (again more accessibility options, possibly hearing impaired)
I digress. -
02-24-2022, 09:09 PMRannie
Hmm I'm going to get an Ethernet cable and do a direct router connection and try again... cause when I had that issue the other day I wasn't having connection issues but I want to double check and rule out it being the internet completely. =)
Also I've kinda been meaning to do a direct connect for a while . -
02-24-2022, 09:13 PMSqwallDirect connect is going to be superior to Wi-Fi. For some reason the ps5 Wi-Fi antenna is worse then ps4 pro that I had. It’s barely function when I play on my upstairs tv when my PS4 pro allowed me to raid perfectly fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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02-24-2022, 10:22 PMRannie
I've honestly just been noticing the wonkyness of my connection since covid hit and everyone has been staying at home and doing the WFH as well.. though Frontier could be slacking with their Fios now blah. My ps4 is hardwired for internet but my ps5 is in a completely different room so I had to stick with it as such. >.< I'd rather now go through suffering with a 20 ft ethernet or longer cable to help it out lol