Hamlet Defense System Reform Proposal...

I've won Hamlet Defense a few times now, and while I have enjoyed it, it's not really the ongoing "activity" like FFXI's Campaign Battle I hoped it would be. This is mostly due to a lacking incentive structure - there is neither a self-contained upward spiral nor is there a strong benefit for the rest of the game.

Basically, the more you do Hamlet Defense, the better you should get at it and the more rewarding it should become. This is currently not the case, and here are some system reforms that I think could help it become that.

1. There should be a scaled down version for 4 players, with appropriately adjusted rewards.

2. Right now it doesn't feel like you're helping the war effort by actually playing, which… is really bad, and fundamentally undermines the point of the effort. To remedy this, I think the Hamlets should level up based on completed battle "contributions," as well as supply contributions. This would probably need to be at a lower rate than supplies to keep it from growing out of control, but I'll leave that up to them.

3. Militia Gear should be purchasable with a new Militia Credits currency type. This is awarded for any kind of contribution in addition to anima, but there can still be random gear award from the chests.

4. Militia Credits should also be exchangeable for GC Seals, so there's a constant incentive to participate and help friends out, as well as create some tension on how to spend them. Getting better gear through participation is how both the individual and greater community take part in this "upward spiral."

5. Level 1 HDs should be easier than they are now, because it's different enough from regular play that it's confusing at first and losses are discouraging players from digging deeper into the content. This is also how people can start learning, get a foothold, and start earning Militia Credits.

6. Not sure if this is the case now or not, but, similar to Besieged, the supply level should stay through HD cycles so it's constantly building if people are winning and contributing. Perhaps the battle contributions portion should drop X% every hour (higher levels drop higher percentages) during the supply phase so it's not permanently pegged to Level 5 without a lot of player effort.

Each battle lost should subtract from the Hamlet's point total, just as winning adds to it. But how the relationship between points lost and gained per battle should shift as the hamlet levels up: for example, at Level 1, winning gets you 50% more points than you would lose if you lost, while at Level 5 you'd lose 50% more points than you'd gain if you'd won.

7. In keeping with the "upward spiral" theme, wearing Militia gear should… 1) Give you the bonuses the NPCs get from DoH tasks, 2) Enhance the debuff effect from DoL classes, and 3) Reduce the impact of player debuffs from Supply losses. The more pieces of Militia gear you have, the stronger these effects should be, and these bonuses should play an important role in beating the Level 5 boss.

So there is my (hopefully) comprehensive plan to make this a fun activity for one and all.

you coulda used one of the several other posts to talk about this didnt need its own

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you coulda used one of the several other posts to talk about this didnt need its own

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Except this post is in the right sub forum, besides when did you start moderating these forums :P

All good idea's BTW Ravi

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Except this post is in the right sub forum, besides when did you start moderating these forums :P

All good idea's BTW Ravi

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the other dev crated post is in this forum too lol(at the top), are you even looking? your slipping jinko

...So do you have anything constructive to add, Thevedis?

The reason I made a new thread was because the others were just lots of complaining and piecemeal fix ideas from different people, rather than a comprehensive system reform discussion. I felt that was different enough in concept that it warranted its own thread, so people can discuss a single approach instead of trying to piece together a discussion from the fragments we're seeing there.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

you coulda used one of the several other posts to talk about this didnt need its own

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Or he can make a different topic, just because you don't care for the material doesn't mean you get to decide whether it should be in a batch thread or not :P



I like most of the suggestions except the win/loss one, shared server responsibility for rewards is tough to deliver in a way that doesn't cause a lot of unproductive drama. If anyone can do Hamlet and losses have a dramatic effect on progress the higher you go, there's not much to stop more malicious groups from spiking the totals down, for example. Guilds/LSes who have the higher levels on farm status are given an incentive to discourage less experienced groups from trying the content when the levels get higher, etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of those suggested in action. The suggestion that stands out the most is the one about earning Militia Currency. I would enjoy Hamlet Defense more if it were rewarding. I would love to use it as a way to earn some extra GC seals or purchase things to use in Hamlet Defense.

Something a little extra though, I would actually like it if we could earn some exp from the experience. Like how you get exp for Primal quest turn in. It's not an optimal way to level, but at least it's something. :D

I think you've raised valid points and would really improve this activity!

I agree with Rin, the addition of a currency would/could be a great incentive for people to continue to do the content.

After the first few days motivation to do the content went south fast, its actually a shame because the content is quite fun when you feel you can actually accomplish something.

Maybe they could make it so the content scaled to the users settings similar to leves, obvious the higher the difficultly the higher chance of loot dropping or the better quality the loot would become (and/or more currency being rewarded).

When I first saw this thread I was like "Oh boy, here we go again...", but these are actually some good points. Usually when people make these threads they suggest redoing the whole thing how they want it and don't really think about how long it would take to do a complete overhaul (and their ideas usually aren't very good lol). But these are nice, small ideas that would greatly improve HD. I especially like the currency idea and being able to trade it for gear or seals.

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

When I first saw this thread I was like "Oh boy, here we go again...", but these are actually some good points. Usually when people make these threads they suggest redoing the whole thing how they want it and don't really think about how long it would take to do a complete overhaul (and their ideas usually aren't very good lol). But these are nice, small ideas that would greatly improve HD. I especially like the currency idea and being able to trade it for gear or seals.

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Thanks!

Like I said in the top, I actually enjoyed the battles once I got an understanding of how they worked, and don't really want to see that changed. The problems I see are mostly with the lacking incentive structure around them.

I think most of this would be pretty easy to implement under the current system, but I say this without really knowing how their tools, etc. work. But based on recent additions, it seems like they have a pretty flexible "store" system, and most of this would revolve around that.

The hardest part of my suggestions would likely be balancing the growth and decay rates and making them feel good.

I also forgot about the content finder, which makes the idea of the server collaborating together pretty mushy. But perhaps this just means that Hamlet Defense is a cross-server effort, and the levels are determined by all players' input, rather than just those from your server...?

wow, those are very well thought out ideas.
The changes are tiny but they would make HD much better. I hope they actually reach the devs.

I agree with rav on this there doesnt seem to be a point to doing the hamlets since you can easily do it all day for weeks or even months and not really end up with anything usefull much less anything you want

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Originally Posted by Ravidrath

I've won Hamlet Defense a few times now, and while I have enjoyed it, it's not really the ongoing "activity" like FFXI's Campaign Battle I hoped it would be. This is mostly due to a lacking incentive structure - there is neither a self-contained upward spiral nor is there a strong benefit for the rest of the game.

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When you say there is no benefit for the rest of the game, are you ignoring the anima replenishment and the gear/seal drops that better your character?

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1. There should be a scaled down version for 4 players, with appropriately adjusted rewards.

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Why?

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2. Right now it doesn't feel like you're helping the war effort by actually playing, which… is really bad, and fundamentally undermines the point of the effort. To remedy this, I think the Hamlets should level up based on completed battle "contributions," as well as supply contributions. This would probably need to be at a lower rate than supplies to keep it from growing out of control, but I'll leave that up to them.

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Just about the only thing I agree with. Besides points three and four, which encourages players to press forward in the face of RNG violating you every time you loot the chest.

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5. Level 1 HDs should be easier than they are now, because it's different enough from regular play that it's confusing at first and losses are discouraging players from digging deeper into the content. This is also how people can start learning, get a foothold, and start earning Militia Credits.

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Why? If it was any easier how can people learn the correct way to do things? If it was so easy they could mess up to their hearts content they'd never get any better.

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6. Not sure if this is the case now or not, but, similar to Besieged, the supply level should stay through HD cycles so it's constantly building if people are winning and contributing. Perhaps the battle contributions portion should drop X% every hour (higher levels drop higher percentages) during the supply phase so it's not permanently pegged to Level 5 without a lot of player effort.

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So people in other time zones should be punished for not logging on the hour the hamlet went into battle phase? Okay, cool...

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Each battle lost should subtract from the Hamlet's point total, just as winning adds to it. But how the relationship between points lost and gained per battle should shift as the hamlet levels up: for example, at Level 1, winning gets you 50% more points than you would lose if you lost, while at Level 5 you'd lose 50% more points than you'd gain if you'd won.

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Now you're saying I should be punished for the failures of other player's groups? How about no. I deal with enough players coming into my group and missing the mage because they were being sent porn from a co-worker, I don't need a whole server of morons messing up the hard work I might have put into getting the hamlet up to level 5.

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7. In keeping with the "upward spiral" theme, wearing Militia gear should… 1) Give you the bonuses the NPCs get from DoH tasks, 2) Enhance the debuff effect from DoL classes, and 3) Reduce the impact of player debuffs from Supply losses. The more pieces of Militia gear you have, the stronger these effects should be, and these bonuses should play an important role in beating the Level 5 boss.

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But what about all the hard work I put into getting good gear from OTHER content? Why should I be forced into wearing militia gear just for hamlet defense?

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So there is my (hopefully) comprehensive plan to make this a fun activity for one and all.

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Sounds like you hate fun to me.