Female Hrothgar Lore Confusion

From the Hrothgar Naming Conventions Post:

"Hrothgar surnames are traditionally based on the name of the clan’s female, or “queen.” If the queen is still living...her name will be prefaced by “A,” meaning “on” in the sense of “in service to,” to form the male surname of her subjects."

"The Lost are those Hrothgar who have found themselves bereft of their queen and─typically after a lengthy period of mourning─struck out on their own. (Like “lost” comets that can no longer be found following their previous orbital patterns, one might say.) Accordingly, their surnames are altered by removing the initial “A” and appending “sch,” meaning “lost,” to their erstwhile queen’s name."

• Does this mean that all members of a Lost tribe are male? If there was a female Hrothgar, a 'queen' of the Lost (we'll call her Vorya) who has a daughter (named Katya) and the queen dies, does the daughter automatically become Queen? If a Helion tribe loses their queen, does that now make them Lost or could another Helion tribe take them in?

Here are two posts from the Hrothgar FFXIV Wiki that seem to convolute the matter further:

"Male Helion surnames are based on the queen they served as...If their queen is alive at the time of their birth or still living as acting queen, their name is to be prefixed with A."

"As Lost do not serve a matriarch..."

Here is a post from the Hrothgar FFXIV Fandom Wiki:

"Unlike their Helion brethren, the Lost are unbound by the whims of any reigning monarch"

• So do the Lost follow a clan matriarch or not? Are all Lost clans only one generation due to not having a clan female? Would Katya's name be Katya Voryasch? If she dies, would the clan now be called Katyasch?

• A Queen is described as the clan's female, yet the Lost do not follow a Queen- who leads their tribes?

I think with them adding in females as playable they may to give the lore and naming mechanics of the race another look over. Oooor maybe they won’t and you’re correct.

wouldn't they be called lost simply because they don't have a leader could be a deeper meaning or simply oversight

The Lost: "These are the Hrothgar who have found themselves bereft of a queen and—typically after a lengthy period of mourning—struck out on their own. One can assume with a fair degree of certainty that any male Hrothgar encountered beyond Bozja's borders are of the Lost, as they are far more likely than Helions to abandon their settlement and embrace a nomadic lifestyle. Female Lost are also known to exist—individuals who have, for whatever reason, renounced or refused the ruler's mantle to pursue life on their own terms."

Found this on the wiki. It might've been added more recently.

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Originally Posted by MaddiKitten

The Lost: "These are the Hrothgar who have found themselves bereft of a queen and—typically after a lengthy period of mourning—struck out on their own. One can assume with a fair degree of certainty that any male Hrothgar encountered beyond Bozja's borders are of the Lost, as they are far more likely than Helions to abandon their settlement and embrace a nomadic lifestyle. Female Lost are also known to exist—individuals who have, for whatever reason, renounced or refused the ruler's mantle to pursue life on their own terms."

Found this on the wiki. It might've been added more recently.

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Specifically, this is from the Encyclopedia Eorzea 3, so this specific grab came to us around last December.

I doubt this is still kicking around in the OP's head two years later, but the broad thing about the Lost is that they're mostly an external categorization. Non-hrothgar have figured out that they're a matriarchal society but that there's some hrothgar without queens, and everything else was basically educated guesswork; there's not even any real evidence that hrothgar with a queen treat hrothgar without a queen differently. The EE3 did also give the crucial info about non-queen female hrothgar, though: that sometimes they just aren't queens, for any number of political or personal reasons.

And also worth clarifying while we're reviving this thread from the dead: The iq'braax in Tural do have the hrothgar low female birth rates, but they don't ascribe a matriarchal value to women, it's just 'hell yeah, we got a girl'. Someone to celebrate, but not to elevate; perhaps written to contrast with how crazy Mamook goes over blessed siblings. We might learn more about the iq'braax with the custom delivery NPC in 7.1, though.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

And also worth clarifying while we're reviving this thread from the dead: The iq'braax in Tural do have the hrothgar low female birth rates, but they don't ascribe a matriarchal value to women, it's just 'hell yeah, we got a girl'. Someone to celebrate, but not to elevate; perhaps written to contrast with how crazy Mamook goes over blessed siblings. We might learn more about the iq'braax with the custom delivery NPC in 7.1, though.

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The race is Xbr'aal; Iq Braax is their village in Yak T'el. But anyway.

I'm not sure if we'll learn more about the Xbr'aal from the custom deliveries storyline or not. There's probably some story to why a pair of Xbr'aal are using Tonawawtan names, but there might not be much to it and there are other storylines to be explored in the region.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The race is Xbr'aal; Iq Braax is their village in Yak T'el. But anyway.

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Yeah, I think you can understand why I mixed up these names specifically. Thanks for the clarification.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

The race is Xbr'aal; Iq Braax is their village in Yak T'el. But anyway.

I'm not sure if we'll learn more about the Xbr'aal from the custom deliveries storyline or not. There's probably some story to why a pair of Xbr'aal are using Tonawawtan names, but there might not be much to it and there are other storylines to be explored in the region.

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Wuk Lamat actually answered this for us very early on in 7.0 MSQ. She said that the tribe names in Tural don't map 1-to-1 on races, but are rather cultural names. A Miqo'te or a Hyur who lived among the Xbr'aal would also be called a Xbr'aal.

It never came up again, so I don't blame anyone for forgetting it.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

Wuk Lamat actually answered this for us very early on in 7.0 MSQ. She said that the tribe names in Tural don't map 1-to-1 on races, but are rather cultural names. A Miqo'te or a Hyur who lived among the Xbr'aal would also be called a Xbr'aal.

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I don't recall her saying that, only talking about the local names for races compared to Eorzean ones. Do you recall where she said this?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't recall her saying that, only talking about the local names for races compared to Eorzean ones. Do you recall where she said this?

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I was wrong, it wasn't her; it was one of the people we talked to on the ship ride at the very start.

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Originally Posted by Self-assured Trader

Consider this: it is not uncommon for the various races to be referred to instead by the names of certain clans. For the Miqo'te, the Hhetsarro; the Hrothgar, the Xbr'aal. Not because every member of a given clan is of the same race, mind, but because many individuals of said race are associated with that clan. A fair assumption, in certain cases─but take care not to give offense.

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Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute

I was wrong, it wasn't her; it was one of the people we talked to on the ship ride at the very start.

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Hmm, I took that differently – that what an Eorzean would call a Miqo'te is usually called "Hhetsarro" but there are some smaller clans of cat-people (perhaps like the family from the Perch of the Apex role quest) who don't appreciate being called Hhetsarro.

On a closer read, it does seem to say that there can be people of different races within a clan, but that seems strange terminology-wise, and certainly Wuk Lamat and Koana still seem to identify as Xbr'aal and Hhetsarro rather than adopted into a Mamool Ja clan.

We might just have to wait for the custom deliveries and see if Wawlika and Nitowikwe say more about what they regard themselves to be.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

On a closer read, it does seem to say that there can be people of different races within a clan, but that seems strange terminology-wise, and certainly Wuk Lamat and Koana still seem to identify as Xbr'aal and Hhetsarro rather than adopted into a Mamool Ja clan.

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I feel like Koana's specifically a bit of a sideways one here: he essentially identifies as Hhetsarro in rejection of them. That while Wuk Lamat seems pretty cool with her lineage even if she doesn't know that much about it, Koana suffered something that he sees as a fault of Hhetsarro cultural traditions, and almost seems to identify as an example of something that shouldn't be happening. He doesn't renounce being Hhetsarro, but he has serious issues with their culture; granted, that element isn't really explored.

We might also be looking at Tuliyollal essentially existing as a separate clan and community in and of itself, though. That for people who live there, the cultural norms and standards of Tuliyollal take precedence over their cultural heritage. Certainly the Mamool Ja that live there seem to have drawn a solid line separating them and Mamook, and there's an element of it in the Miner/Botanist questline in relation to the Shetona.