Been leveling DRK recently, and had an idea for improving them to bring them closer to the level of the other tanks (I haven't had any problems with DRK so far, but every other tank class getting upgrades has left it a bit behind)
My idea is after you use oblation, your next quietus or bloodspiller gives you a shield (quietus for each enemy hit, bloodspiller a flat amount similar to WHM's divine benison), I feel this would be a suitable equivalent to nascent flash, where in dungeons it's good for big pulls, but isn't overpowering in a raid setting. Would also give DRK a bit more flavour against the other tanks than just getting a cooldown with healing. The shield being tied to oblation means it can't be overused.
Suggestion for improved DRK survivability in dungeons
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02-04-2022, 11:50 PMIkayaTiaSuggestion for improved DRK survivability in dungeons
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02-05-2022, 02:00 AMAbsimiliard
Or, y'know, just give them some self-healing. Doesn't even have to be on par with GNB or PLD. Just something to enable them to survive more than five seconds without a healer.
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02-05-2022, 02:06 AMXrisonI thought like you at first, but the more I leveled up DRK, the more I realized how much it needs a full-on rework. The more abilities I unlocked, the more out of sync everything felt. The other three tanks have very smooth rotations, but DRK's feels janky as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absimiliard
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02-05-2022, 02:19 AMAbsimiliard
DRK probably won't see a rework before the next xpac. The best we can hope for right now is quality of life changes.
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02-05-2022, 02:31 AMForteNightshadeUnfortunately, this is likely the case. Although, some changes to certain abilities would go a long way in making DRK feel better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absimiliard
Even slapping a healing bonus on Oblation would significantly bolster DRK's survivability. Fixing LD and that would address a big part of their issues. Of course, they'd need to buff the other tanks if DRK got any significant self-sustain but I kind of feel they should do this, regardless. -
02-06-2022, 04:25 PMVeranolth
The quick and easy fixes would be cure potency buffs on Souleater and Abyssal Drain.
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02-07-2022, 06:33 PMFoxCh40s
Another good fix for Dark Knight would be to maybe play another job? Maybe another role? It performs rediculously well in Savage, and can clear content, so as far as they are concerned, no need to fix it.
"We are completely unaware this was an issue."
2941 and rising posts on Dark Knight exist. They're aware, they just chosen to do nothing about it. -
02-07-2022, 06:46 PMShurrikhan^ I see no reason to constrain Oblation to a function that can be granted far more directly (such as for healing from Oblation/Bloodspiller damage or short leech windows procced by either).Quote:
Originally Posted by Absimiliard
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02-07-2022, 06:53 PMsmol_cofe
a very low potency hp steal would help on the aoe rotation, just enough to help in leveling dungeons. oblation and tbn mitigate fine already with good experienced teams but the 81+ leveling dungeons are pretty rough. tack on the hp steal to enhanced unmend and rename it.
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02-07-2022, 07:09 PMShurrikhan...Do not do this. Do not make DRK self-sustain an incredibly damage-wasteful 'option'.Quote:
Originally Posted by smol_cofe
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02-07-2022, 07:23 PMShinimas
Just make Abyssal Drain cost 3k mana and have no CD. It will do absolutely nothing for 8-mans and allow people to spam healing on trash packs.
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02-08-2022, 04:32 AMDeceptus
The biggest problem with DRK is a large amount of the mitigation is on the back end of the leveling.
Should get TBN a LOT earlier. Call it "The Black Night" 10-15% shield, upgrades to The Blackest Night later
Oblivation should be acquired a LOT earlier, like lvl 30. Get that 2nd charge later.
Stalwart soul needs to arrive a LOT earlier as well. The 2nd part of their aoe combo shouldn't be at level freaking 72. This has the added effect of giving back mana in aoe, something lacking in early game. Every other tank gets their second at lvl 40. Why the huge discrepancy?
Combine Dark Mind and Dark Missionary into a single ability that simply targets all party members, balance accordingly.
When TBN Pops it should immediately bring Abyssal Drain off CD. This allows for a TBN > AD > TBN for dungeon trash. Every 15s you can do one of each. Edit: Or what has been mentioned a few posts later, simply add a healing component to Flood of Darkness. Creates good synergy with TBN natively. -
02-08-2022, 04:47 AMbaklava151I like this also because it lets them unlink CnS from AD again, which I think was just a bandaid fix to make DRK's opener a little less bloated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinimas
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02-08-2022, 06:34 PMTerhix
Remove Carve and Spit, reduce Abyssal Drain cooldown to 30s, boost damage potency with reduced damage after first target to compensate. Replace Enhanced Unmend with Enhanced Abyssal Drain boosting it's cure potency from 200 to 400. All in all that would still be just a fraction of healing WAR gets with just Bloodwhetting, but between TBN and rotating cooldowns properly it should be enough to have that extra oomph to bring you back from the brink.
Also just remove the dying part from Living Dead, making it a slightly better Holmgang but with longer CD should be fine, and we can actually use it as an "oh shit" button in dungeon pulls without dying except for those rare scenarios when you get paired with WHM who saved benediction just for that.
Done, no need for a complete redesign. -
02-08-2022, 06:46 PMeinschwartzHonestly, this is the main reason I forgot to press Stalwart Soul most of the time. Been pressing the same damn button for AoE far too long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
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02-08-2022, 07:08 PMOizenI don't think Oblation is impactful enough to warrant even existing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
And I definately don't want to waste two skills on getting it to where it is now, when where it is now is not very good. -
02-08-2022, 10:23 PMBaconBits
Put spikes on everything so DRK can be the spikiest tank.
Shadow Wall? Spikes.
Dark Mind? More spikes.
Dark Missionary? Spikes on everybody.
Blood Weapon? HP draining spikes.
Oblation? Would you believe me if I said more spikes? What about spikes of the MP draining variety to encourage more Edge/Flood of Darkness usage?
Abyssal Drain? Turn it back into a GCD so we can lob more spikes.
I just want to see spikes don't judge me :(. -
02-10-2022, 02:17 PMShurrikhanIf by this you also mean to make it oGCD, then you make button-bloat of both Flood and TBN in AoE (unless AD's damage is absolutely terrible, in which case DRK's sustain uniquely comes at DPS cost). If GCD, then you make button-bloat of TBN and, until MP is depleted, Unleash and Stalwart Soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinimas
As long as you make it spammable and cause it to share resources it will produce anti-synergy with the rest of the kit.
While I'd agree that Oblation needs to be stronger if we're to spend a button on it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oizen
Improving the levels at which one acquires their mitigation does not preclude improvements to DRK's mitigation kit at later levels.
Moreover, there is no set number to total skill count, trait count, nor skills+traits count. Nor is there any standardization in how many skills and traits one can get at a given level. The only rigid standardization is in which levels are capable of giving anything. As such, having a trait later upgrade a skill will not cost you any actions, only alternate sources of added ppm or sustain at that given level (since the needs they'd fill will already have been thus met). -
02-13-2022, 12:20 AMForteNightshadeI think the simple fix for Oblation is merging it together with Dark Mind. Perhaps keep the 10% effect when applied to party members but 20% when used on yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oizen
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02-13-2022, 01:36 AMDeceptusHonestly, at that point simply giving a healing component (200 pot) to Flood of Shadow would accomplish the exact same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinimas
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02-13-2022, 11:18 AMShurrikhanThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
That certain skills must (or need not) be what houses this capacity or that has been a curious point of contention of late. Despite all 'drain' skills in this game since Shadowbringer(?) actually being MP-syphons, it's taken as calamitous if somehow a shadow-looking skill or a Blood spender ends up providing that sustain instead of a skill with "Drain" in its name.
We literally house a semi-separately-sentient shadow monster / Shadow consciousness inside of us, but feeding it first (+MP) via drain skills and ourselves (+HP) then through shadowy spenders is blasphemous? -
02-13-2022, 12:57 PMBlackLion3173
Personally, I wouldn't mind getting a minimum 400 potency heal to Bloodspiller and Quietus. I also wouldn't mind if we changed TBN to 25 seconds, remove the mana cost, and give us some way to lower the CD like how Warrior's Fel Cleaves/Primal Rend lowers the CD on their infuriate. It would be better than the unmend to plunge CD reduction.
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02-13-2022, 09:53 PMNavnavWow, I haven't been playing this game any longer than ShB and don't even really play DRK, but even i know they are NOT the same thing. Doesn't Flood do quite a bit more potency than AD? So wouldn't you be swapping a lot more damage for more survivability? Doesn't that seem like good design? Or do we just make points that we don't think through, just to say something...Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
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02-13-2022, 09:59 PMZairavano, it's only a 10 potency difference. Flood got nerfed in EndwalkerQuote:
Originally Posted by Navnav
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02-13-2022, 10:48 PMDeceptusThe irony . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Navnav
It's generally a decent idea to not speak if you have no idea what you're talking about. -
02-14-2022, 03:18 AMeinwolThis is one of the best suggestions for DRK. Please do this SEQuote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
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02-14-2022, 03:23 AMThe_User
That make 1 TBN=free potency from AD provide that it no longer share recast time with CaS. If they still share recast time and TBN reset CaS recast time as well that would mean free 4 CaS.
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02-14-2022, 09:55 AMTulzschaThis is my favorite idea here. Simple and effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinimas
That could be neat; Warrior heals through damage, DRK could be more about dealing dmg through defense. Double down on TBN's design. With more defense to back it up ofc. Could have something like an ability that reflects a fixed amount of dmg from each incoming attack so it's not very effective on big hits but very useful for groups of small enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconBits
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02-14-2022, 10:46 AMFoxCh40s
Or you guys could play another job? Might help. It's been made clear that Dark Knight is exactly where they want it.
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02-14-2022, 11:53 AMShurrikhanThe latter can be easily fixed by just adding a brief buff period after proccing DA during which your next AD will ignore its CD, rather than refreshing its CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_User
Technically, that would be a bit more powerful, as it wouldn't waste what time had already been spent charging and better allow AD's (admittedly undertuned) AoE damage to sync up with raid buffs (if that were ever really relevant), but that's all that'd be needed to deal with that technicality.
The former is a bit trickier, as it'd require the DA also to be spendable on that AD instead, and probably for that buff to end the moment you spend your DA.
I really didn't need to waste those 5 seconds to confirm via Lodestone that you hadn't leveled DRK (and probably won't), did I? Alas... /shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by FoxCh40s
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02-14-2022, 02:57 PMThe_User
Basically you could still get a dps gain from tbn if you are able to align it with AD and at the same make any tbn that didn't align with AD became a dps loss. I wonder will people be happy when tbn got even more restriction?
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02-14-2022, 03:26 PMZairavaGiven that, if they go that route, AD cooldown resetting upon TBN breaking wouldnt really be a dps loss anywhere, even if they don't unlink C&S. There would really be no restriction since there would be only gained dps until the mobs/boss dies. Instead of it being dps neutral or loss it would be dps gain or neutral. All it would be is gaining more use of AD (and as stated, C&S if they keep them linked). This is the only case I'd actually like to keep them linked, because it would be more than just 1->2->3 spam until the next phase, given that it breaks, but at that point I would nerf TBN back to 20% shield because it would help it pop more in bosses outside of TB'sQuote:
Originally Posted by The_User
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02-14-2022, 03:28 PMThe_User
I'm refer to the suggestion that have AD don't trigger a CD [but require AD to be off coodown] when you have DA.
So when you break tbn while AD is on cooldown it don't increase your dps and became a dps loss if you spend DA before AD came off cooldown. -
02-14-2022, 03:34 PMJirah
Or let’s nerf all the other tanks to be at DRK level, had Warrior 3 times in a row in roulette and I miss healing. Gets boring spamming aoes
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02-14-2022, 03:35 PMThe_User
I'm afraid that doesn't change the fact that Dark Knight still need a rework and an improvement.
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02-14-2022, 03:46 PMZairavaAhh, my bad. It took me a bit but I understand what they are trying to say. It's not making it more restrictive it's more giving AD a "free use" while still leaving it on the cooldown it's on still rolling so there's no concern about misaligning with buffs. and considering this would only really be useful in dungeons it's not a very real concern to have anyway (which is why personally I would rather this apply to both C&S and AD, because then you could save a free C&S for raid buff windows)Quote:
Originally Posted by The_User
While I can agree that WAR healing is heavily broken in dungeons it still doesn't fix that autos outside of ultimates and some savage encounters is undertuned for the cooldowns PLD/GNB/WAR have. And that would piss off a lot more people in the grand scheme than fixing one job and improving it. Healer's don't really have a lot of aoe attacks outside of white mage and sage, so that doesn't really help either. The only tank we could really say has a broken amount of sustain is Warrior, at least on GNB and PLD you still have to pay attention to them since they dont have free benediction every 25 seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jirah
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02-14-2022, 03:58 PMThe_User
Wouldn't it make spend DA outside of raid buff became a more dps loss?, beside, do you really want more weaving in your burst? and if AD don't consume DA wound't that allow for unlimit AD? If AD consume DA wouldn't that mean you have to trade EOS for it?
If you expected to be able to get no more than double AD every 60s then why don't you just make AD have 2 chargers with 30s charge time instead? not sure if people want more ocgd bloat in burst tho. -
02-14-2022, 04:33 PMZairavaWe most certainly do not need more OGCD's in our burst, that's actually a problem I'd like to see addressed actually. If they keep them linked for whatever reason, I hope they fix it with a rework if they're working on one.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_User
I do like being busy though, so I wouldn't complain if they made the burst feel more powerful with better animations and job mechanics personally