"First Come First Served" Plots

With Ishgard housing coming soon and the changes to housing in 6.1, I can't help but see a fundamental problem with how "first come first served" plots will work.

From what we've been told so far, there's going to be 2 types of ward from 6.1 onwards: "FC-only" wards, and "Personal-only" wards. These designations are going to apply to wards that already exist, but plots that are owned will not be affected until they are relinquished.

From there, plots are going to be broken into two kinds of purchase type: "Lottery" and "First Come First Served". SE has outlined how lottery plots will work, but they have not gone into detail for first come first served yet.

Here's the problem: If first come first served is just the same system as we have now, with a large group of people clicking for hours around a sign until one of them gets lucky... how is that any different to the lottery system, except one is far more painful?

It will be a decision between "Do you want to just throw your gil at the plot, walk away and hopefully get lucky" or "Do you want to click for hours upon hours upon hours of your life, wasting time and hopefully get lucky", if that is the case. They may as well make all plots lottery in this case, because the random-timer is the single worst thing they've ever done to the house buying system.

It won't be so bad if they at least tell us *when* the timer is running out for these plots. Sure, you have a bunch of people taking note of the time, and then they all surround the sign at the appointed hour and all get ready to click - but surely that's preferable to everyone standing around for hours on end? I've had friends stay up all night losing sleep trying to get a plot. People do it all the time, and it's not healthy, but it's what the click-system encourages.

Either that, or make first come first served plots work like housing did before the timer ever existed - as soon as it is relinquished, it is available for purchase. Yes, this makes house flippers a problem, but I think most people who really badly want a house would rather pay a premium in gil to a house flipper than spend countless hours clicking signs with no guarantee they'll get a plot.

Tl;dr: As long as the clicking for countless hours to get a "first come first served" plot is eliminated, it'll be better. Otherwise, they may as well make all houses lottery, because that would objectively be better than "easy lottery vs painful lottery".

FCFS is indeed how it works now.

As for why SE is proposing doing both types, it's that they recognize not everyone likes the lottery system - for those that can camp a housing site for hours on end, their chances of getting a home will actually go down with the lottery system. It largely benefits those that don't have the time to camp, or those that find it too painful.

But in that same liveletter they also said they're looking for community feedback on how much should be lottery vs FCFS. If you think they should all be lottery (or vice versa), that's valid feedback that they're looking for. However, unless the feedback is just about unanimous, it'll probably be some split to keep both camps happy (or erm... keep both from getting too unhappy).

...If you think the system should be redesigned from the ground up, well, I'll agree with you, but I think at this point what we got is what we got. Of all the suggestions, SE chose to implement lottery, likely because it's practical and works in place with existing systems.

That's just a new one to me - there's people who LIKE clicking for hours on end with slim chances of success? lol

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Originally Posted by Luxyn

That's just a new one to me - there's people who LIKE clicking for hours on end with slim chances of success? lol

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I mean, they probably don't enjoy the act itself, but some of those that have a surfeit of free time want to be able to use said free time to increase their chances of getting a plot. (If it were up to me, I'd make every single plot lottery, but I also wouldn't penalize players for withdrawing from the lottery before the drawing - only if they do so after they've won).

Moreover, let's say you're an FC leader for a second. You can recruit your FC officers to also click the sign, and have coverage in case someone AFKs, and have shifts for when people get off to go to bed or plot your murder. This, too, significantly increases the odds the FC will get a house. The lottery hurts the chances of people that organize like so.

Or maybe they can just add more wards... problem solved.

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Originally Posted by LitheSuxman

Or maybe they can just add more wards... problem solved.

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https://i.imgur.com/2IuhYWU.png

More wards are always nice yes. XD I just think the clicking system is so so bad and unhealthy for everyone.

On the note of FCs with lotteries, I think an FC can enter a lottery multiple times, or at least I'd assume so? Once per member, provided they have the gil. So an FC with 500 mil in their bank and 10 members would be able to submit 10 separate tickets each for 50 mil for example - if they win, they get 450 mil back, if they lose they get all 500 mil back. I could be wrong, but I'd assume it's that way to give larger FCs an advantage over smaller ones since they "need the plot more".

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Originally Posted by Luxyn

More wards are always nice yes. XD I just think the clicking system is so so bad and unhealthy for everyone.

On the note of FCs with lotteries, I think an FC can enter a lottery multiple times, or at least I'd assume so? Once per member, provided they have the gil. So an FC with 500 mil in their bank and 10 members would be able to submit 10 separate tickets each for 50 mil for example - if they win, they get 450 mil back, if they lose they get all 500 mil back. I could be wrong, but I'd assume it's that way to give larger FCs an advantage over smaller ones since they "need the plot more".

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As described in november, 1 entry per lottery, and only one lottery may be entered at a time, and there are other restrictions like another character on the same service account can't "own" an FC house (exactly how they determine what qualifies vs just being a member of an FC with a house is, as far as I know, unknown). We don't have the fine details on this (maybe we'll get more next live letter), and of course, the final version implemented into the game may be different.

Just be prepared for waves of complaints on new lottery system:

"Lottery sucks"
"RNG is so bad"
"Someone must use hacks"
"1,000 ticket but still unable to get house"
"SE bad because lottery is horriable"

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Originally Posted by Luxyn

That's just a new one to me - there's people who LIKE clicking for hours on end with slim chances of success? lol

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Chances for success on this method are much much higher then there will be on a lottery. Also consider that many of those who want this method fully plan to run auto click macros so they don't need to spend hour upon hour of their lives clicking away.

With relocation no longer bypassing the purchase timer, there's really no point to first come, first serve other than giving advantage to the bot users and FC flippers.

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Originally Posted by Luxyn

That's just a new one to me - there's people who LIKE clicking for hours on end with slim chances of success? lol

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I wouldn't say they like the clicking but their chances of success are far better when they're only competing against 10-20 players instead of 1000.

When the new wards are released for Ishgard, the servers will go down for maintenance for 24 hours, that is long enough so that when the servers come online all first come first serve plots will have run out of hidden timer, making them purchasable immediately.
As of right now it is speculated that of the 26 wards released, 19 will be FC only, 5 will be lottery only and 2 will be FCFS

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Originally Posted by SeiyaSoiya

When the new wards are released for Ishgard, the servers will go down for maintenance for 24 hours, that is long enough so that when the servers come online all first come first serve plots will have run out of hidden timer, making them purchasable immediately.
As of right now it is speculated that of the 26 wards released, 19 will be FC only, 5 will be lottery only and 2 will be FCFS

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That's some pretty wild speculation people are spreading considering past housing additions and how many plots remained unsold when personal purchase moratoriums were in effect. As many complaints as there are about how difficult it is for FCs to get a house, the demand just is not there to devote most of a new housing district to FC houses only.

Also, when did SE announce there would be 26 wards instead of the 24 wards announced at the last Live Letter? Google isn't coming up with any new announcements regarding additional wards when I try searching.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

That's some pretty wild speculation people are spreading considering past housing additions and how many plots remained unsold when personal purchase moratoriums were in effect. As many complaints as there are about how difficult it is for FCs to get a house, the demand just is not there to devote most of a new housing district to FC houses only.

Also, when did SE announce there would be 26 wards instead of the 24 wards announced at the last Live Letter? Google isn't coming up with any new announcements regarding additional wards when I try searching.

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I, too, would like to know where this information is coming from.

fcfs would only be there for the initial release of the wards were its literally a race of who gets to the plot firs. there's no board clicking on release of a new housing estate like shirogane it was a race.

that's if they do some fcfs as they said in the live letter there not decided yet. likely we will know more next ll.

there's pros and cons to both on release ideal we have some of the new wards lottery from the start and some fcfs so people waiting for Ishgard who want to go for a specific plot and believe in their load times can race for it where others can chance the lottery. when houses get demo'd due to inactivity then they go onto lotto.

I dislike lotto from the start as you have to put your eggs in one plot and not be garenteed it. then you lost you chance completely on others.

then again this is me speaking as someone who has been saving for Ishgard for over two years now spent unhealthy hours in the firmament race and spent more money then I should upgrading my pc for some insane load times...I want my mansion plot and I'm going to be sour if I loose out due to rng lottery on a completely brand new housing estate and ward.

I guess next live letter will give us answers. I know they said all wards have the ability to toggle lottery on them it just a question of if they toggle all of them at the start or some.

FCFS is how it was back in Heavensward. We all know just how terrible it was then.

Why wish for it to make a return? So you can guarantee you won't ever get a house? Ever? I mean, if you don't want a house that badly, just don't go to vacant plots. Don't condemn the rest of us for it.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

FCFS is how it was back in Heavensward. We all know just how terrible it was then.

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I suspect when they say First Come First Serve they mean what we have now with the purchase timer. I doubt very much they'll go back to the pre-4.2 system since that would absolutely shift control of any FCFS wards to the flippers.

The main problem is continuing to have any FCFS wards defeats the reason people wanted the lottery in the first place. The complaint was they have to spend hours camping trying to get a house. With wards split between lottery and FCFS they will continue to spend hours camping trying to get a house because the lottery will limit players to one lottery entry during the lottery period (whatever that ends up being - 24 hours? 48? one week?) while there is no such restriction on camping plots. They'll toss their one entry on whatever house in the lottery wards (competing against several hundreds other players) then go back to camping houses in the FCFS wards (competing only against a couple of dozen players so their odds of getting the house will be better). All the lottery does is effectively let them camp 2 houses at the same time.

Nothing changes because in the end the real problem isn't solved. There aren't enough houses for every player and FC that wants a house, and infrequent ward additions won't change that until such time as the player base starts dying out to the point there are fewer players than houses.

But like others, I'm waiting for the live letter where they discuss the housing changes in detail. It's not just Ishgard that will be impacted but all housing districts.

I hope the release of Ishgard isn't all Lotto because in my opinion that would suck big time. Hopefully we'll get a clarification at the next live letter if not before.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I hope the release of Ishgard isn't all Lotto because in my opinion that would suck big time. Hopefully we'll get a clarification at the next live letter if not before.

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This my hope as well. If the entirety of Ishgard is lottery only from day one, it drastically decreases your odds of getting a house compared to beating a log in queue. Not only do you have a better chance getting in faster but if your preferred plot is taken, you can immediately try for another. With the lottery system, you're screwed if someone else wins.

Honestly, they should just make the random timer 5 minutes to 30 minutes.

Let's say the random timer is 5-30 minutes. Those players that dedicate themselves to checking for open plots throughout the day would be awarded with only a few players competing against them for the click war at the placard. Instead of 24 hours of pointless clicking by dozens of players that is likely being botted without any punishment by GMs anyway.

What about the black market? A 5-30 minute random timer is enough to keep away buyers. I've witnessed a black market flip gone bad where someone lost a large house in that deal to someone that just walked by and bought the house.

While more housing would help, I think the underlying mechanics (this long random timer) should be addressed. If SE wants to keep the idea of the random timer, shorten it up to 30 minutes max.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

Honestly, they should just make the random timer 5 minutes to 30 minutes.

Let's say the random timer is 5-30 minutes. Those players that dedicate themselves to checking for open plots throughout the day would be awarded with only a few players competing against them for the click war at the placard. Instead of 24 hours of pointless clicking by dozens of players that is likely being botted without any punishment by GMs anyway.

What about the black market? A 5-30 minute random timer is enough to keep away buyers. I've witnessed a black market flip gone bad where someone lost a large house in that deal to someone that just walked by and bought the house.

While more housing would help, I think the underlying mechanics (this long random timer) should be addressed. If SE wants to keep the idea of the random timer, shorten it up to 30 minutes max.

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How is is going to be fear when there are players from PST and there are players from EST?
It is whole 3 hours difference

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

But in that same liveletter they also said they're looking for community feedback on how much should be lottery vs FCFS.

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Feedbacks?
How are we supposed to evaluate a system and submit a feedback if we don't know details or rules until it's already too late?
If they do things like in Shirogane 2nd world war we could know details 1-2 weeks max before 6.1.

btw I don't see any real issue removing completely the live system, and I have free time, Free time I can use elsewhere, free time I don't risk to waste because a lucky one lives at 2 km from SE server or has a better internet connection.

Reading the thread I suppose no one know what's happened with Shirogane. Players used 3rd program to spam auto-login. Who logged in less than 1 minute queue was able to buy a plot, the others weren't. In less than 5 minutes every plot L-M-S was sold.

So no, it's not a matter of organization or numbers, just a matter of cheating + ISP.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Gyactus

Feedbacks?
How are we supposed to evaluate a system and submit a feedback if we don't know details or rules until it's already too late?

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More specifically, they're asking for feedback on how many plots should use the Lottery system, and how many should keep the FCFS one. Their current plan is for the majority of the plots to use the Lottery system, with a limited amount of FCFS plots. This was stated in the Live Letter, but didn't show up as text on any of the presentation slides.

The same Live Letter also explained the rules of the Lottery system:

-Lottery period lasts for several days
-Can only enter the lottery for one plot
-Full price gets deposited on entry (gets refunded if the player doesn't win the plot)
-Can't withdraw after entering a lottery
-Land acquisition period lasts for several days after the lottery period ends
-Winner's name shows up on the placard
-Winner must claim the land within the land acquisition period, or it will be forfeit (only 50% of the purchase price will be refunded)
-Players who didn't win the plot have to claim their full refund within a limited time frame.
-After the land acquisition period ends, the next lottery period will start for any remaining plots that haven't been sold yet.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

More specifically, they're asking for feedback on how many plots should use the Lottery system, and how many should keep the FCFS one. Their current plan is for the majority of the plots to use the Lottery system, with a limited amount of FCFS plots. This was stated in the Live Letter, but didn't show up as text on any of the presentation slides.

The same Live Letter also explained the rules of the Lottery system:

-Lottery period lasts for several days
-Can only enter the lottery for one plot
-Full price gets deposited on entry (gets refunded if the player doesn't win the plot)
-Can't withdraw after entering a lottery
-Land acquisition period lasts for several days after the lottery period ends
-Winner's name shows up on the placard
-Winner must claim the land within the land acquisition period, or it will be forfeit (only 50% of the purchase price will be refunded)
-Players who didn't win the plot have to claim their full refund within a limited time frame.
-After the land acquisition period ends, the next lottery period will start for any remaining plots that haven't been sold yet.

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Ok, so this is what SE explained.

Now, in 6.1 we'll have 24x2 new wards or 1440 new houses (144 large, 336 medium, rest small).

If it was me, I would put every (144) large and every (336) medium size plot in the lottery at the same time, leaving the small ones FCFS.
this way everyone bet on what he wants, and take the risk to get nothing (not "well if we don't get the large we try the medium..." nor "well we can try ward 2 and next time ward 12...").

It is simple, allow to re-allocate house location, as in it would not end in shortage of current housing...

Re-Allocating stuff would most likely benefit me as would not mind a house on same ward I am currently on, that is my FC's

Folks, it's not FCFS, it's FFS, because that's what you scream when the relocator shows up 11.5 hrs into clicking....

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

Folks, it's not FCFS, it's FFS, because that's what you scream when the relocator shows up 11.5 hrs into clicking....

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Reserve your energy after 6.1 because you will scream more

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Originally Posted by Illmaeran

Folks, it's not FCFS, it's FFS, because that's what you scream when the relocator shows up 11.5 hrs into clicking....

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Relocation no longer bypasses the purchase timer as of 6.0's release. If someone who is relocating ends up with the plot, it's because they won the click war against everyone else standing at the placard.

Same will be true when plots get designated as lottery. Relocators will have no better (nor worse) chance than someone making their first purchase.

in my opinion people who manage to get a housing in this game, either has no job and a lot of time, or work by shifts who have the whole night free, or they have a group of people who click on the notice board in turns throughout the night. It is impossible for normal players to get a house. It is really unfair since we all pay the same subscription and we are missing 20% of the game, I have a lot of lvl 90 craft job and I can craft a lot of furniture but i never get to use them, what is the point for those to be in the craft list? it makes me angry everytime i think about it.