Phantom Rush buffed

Phantom Rush buffed 15%? Does this mean it's a DPS loss to do double solar opener now? Anyone crunched the numbers?

Turn that MNK jank up to 11!

It would actually make double solar more desirable since the whole point is to buff Phantom Rush as much as possible without losing uses. It doesn't change anything, you only use double solar opener based on your expected kill time in a familiar group

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

It would actually make double solar more desirable since the whole point is to buff Phantom Rush as much as possible without losing uses. It doesn't change anything, you only use double solar opener based on your expected kill time in a familiar group

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I suppose that makes sense. I love playing MNK now, plus with the buff to Phantom Rush it will feel even more impactful. Currently WAR tank in my static and loving it (can't seem to break out of tank role). But I do like doing weekly clean with MNK for EX, Savage and duty roulettes. So much fun with MNK now. This buff is nice and welcome.

The buff is incredibly minor, especially compared to other buffs that were given (not that monk needed damage, and if anything I'd have rather seen the buff on Elixir Field so its potency matched Rising Phoenix, it really needs the rest of the garbage in its toolkit addressed... but monk has always been the king of useless buttons)

But like Aeliott said, no. This doesn't make it better to use phantom rush as soon as you possibly can, because at 60 seconds in the only possible boosts to the attack that exist would be riddle of fire and trick attack. It's even more important now to hold it off till the 2 minute mark than it was before.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

The buff is incredibly minor, especially compared to other buffs that were given (not that monk needed damage, and if anything I'd have rather seen the buff on Elixir Field so its potency matched Rising Phoenix, it really needs the rest of the garbage in its toolkit addressed... but monk has always been the king of useless buttons)

But like Aeliott said, no. This doesn't make it better to use phantom rush as soon as you possibly can, because at 60 seconds in the only possible boosts to the attack that exist would be riddle of fire and trick attack. It's even more important now to hold it off till the 2 minute mark than it was before.

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That's what I was thinking with this buff if it changed anything with raid buffs. 15% is quite a bit when you throw everything else unto the potency. Trick, divination, battle litany, brotherhood, pot, food. 15% could push it into 50k crit territory. But like you mention....with double solar opener.

I still feel like this was a half baked attempt to deter double solar opener. If only they put the potency buff into elixir field. But that still won't fix the wonky opener on MNK.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

That's what I was thinking with this buff if it changed anything with raid buffs. 15% is quite a bit when you throw everything else unto the potency. Trick, divination, battle litany, brotherhood, pot, food. 15% could push it into 50k crit territory. But like you mention....with double solar opener.

I still feel like this was a half baked attempt to deter double solar opener. If only they put the potency buff into elixir field. But that still won't fix the wonky opener on MNK.

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I genuinely wish they'd just do something smart with fixing the jank of monk's opener. Some people suggested adding a third charge to perfect balance, But that would only benefit monk a single time and never again for the rest of the fight unless they end up dying or something.
Some weirdo suggested Riddle of Wind give a lunar nadi upon execution but that'd just make combos really goofy to do midway through as riddle of wind would replace elixir field essentially, just so you can rush sooner; only for it to become even less aligned with the full buff window.

Cmon; Anatman doesn't even legally do anything anymore that you don't unconsciously do while disengaging, it resets/refreshes your form (formshift = formless fist) and it does the same to disciplined fist (twin snakes upon reengagement).
It doesn't do anything for leaden fist's timer, perfect balance's timer, or beast chakra masterful blitz expiration timer.

Make anatman charge nadi's slowly so you can use it pre-pull to make the first burst have phantom rush in it; That'd automatically line it up with the full buff window for the rest of the fight, And if the fight has you unable to hit anything long enough, you could get one for free. But make it punishing to use mid-combat by making it take quite a bit, like 4 or 5 solid seconds per nadi. This lines it up for the traditional countdown timers, Makes anatman no longer a wasted button as this would be useful even before you get phantom rush, and I'm sure people will use it in solo instances to look cooler too however irrelevant that may or may not be. Monk's damage was never an issue really. I've only ever seen people complaining about double solar nadi; and double solar nadi's purpose is to keep phantom rush aligned with brotherhood so that all buffs are on when it's used.

Kinda bogus that our official strongest attack that monk has ever had takes us 2 solid minutes to use if we want it to hit worth its salt.

I don't think double solar is harmful to the job. MNK historically has always had jank and it's definitely no Anatman opener from 5.X, that's for sure. Hypothetically changing Perfect Balance's cooldown to 20s instead of 40 would mean you would be hitting Phantom Rush every RoF phase provided you open with double solar. (it would also bring Blitz to the same level of use as NIN's Mudras or SAM's Iaijutsu, because the job's main gimmick being purely restricted to burst phases is lame.) As for how that would impact Nadi optimization, I wouldn't know. I haven't had the chance to play MNK at higher levels since I cannot play it in my current group unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by GreysonMidori

I genuinely wish they'd just do something smart with fixing the jank of monk's opener. Some people suggested adding a third charge to perfect balance, But that would only benefit monk a single time and never again for the rest of the fight unless they end up dying or something.
Some weirdo suggested Riddle of Wind give a lunar nadi upon execution but that'd just make combos really goofy to do midway through as riddle of wind would replace elixir field essentially, just so you can rush sooner; only for it to become even less aligned with the full buff window.

Cmon; Anatman doesn't even legally do anything anymore that you don't unconsciously do while disengaging, it resets/refreshes your form (formshift = formless fist) and it does the same to disciplined fist (twin snakes upon reengagement).
It doesn't do anything for leaden fist's timer, perfect balance's timer, or beast chakra masterful blitz expiration timer.

Make anatman charge nadi's slowly so you can use it pre-pull to make the first burst have phantom rush in it; That'd automatically line it up with the full buff window for the rest of the fight, And if the fight has you unable to hit anything long enough, you could get one for free. But make it punishing to use mid-combat by making it take quite a bit, like 4 or 5 solid seconds per nadi. This lines it up for the traditional countdown timers, Makes anatman no longer a wasted button as this would be useful even before you get phantom rush, and I'm sure people will use it in solo instances to look cooler too however irrelevant that may or may not be. Monk's damage was never an issue really. I've only ever seen people complaining about double solar nadi; and double solar nadi's purpose is to keep phantom rush aligned with brotherhood so that all buffs are on when it's used.

Kinda bogus that our official strongest attack that monk has ever had takes us 2 solid minutes to use if we want it to hit worth its salt.

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The only thing that I can think of is maybe solar nadi buffs next elixir, and lunar buffs Rising Phoenix. Maybe add 50-75 potency to that opposing Nadi, so when I have lunar...the next blitz use that results in solar is buffed, but it only works ONE time...you can't just spam Phoenix as you will lose out on 50-75 potency. IDK. Seems restrictive...but way less jank.

Anatman: Honestly....I think they should just do ALL the timers are stopped. Blitz, Disciplined Fist, Demolish, Perfect Balance. Just everything halts and goes back to max timer until I move.

Six Sided Star: Just change it to 30sec oGCD, but make it remove 5 seconds off of perfect balance cooldown. This way we can use our full kit, a tad busier, and it helps line up perfect balance for Riddle of Fire to be ready for every Phantom Rush.

I don't know.....that's what I would do....Prolly not the most ideal...
This way it's no longer optimal to double solar just to hit raid buff window.

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Originally Posted by GreysonMidori

I genuinely wish they'd just do something smart with fixing the jank of monk's opener.

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Its "jank" because its intentional design. Yoshi-P said before launch they want MNK burst to line up outside of raid buffs.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Its "jank" because its intentional design. Yoshi-P said before launch they want MNK burst to line up outside of raid buffs.

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I don’t think what they had in mind was intentionally delaying our strongest attack so it can line up with raid buffs. I’m going to take a guess this was unintentional result that they didn’t test for.

I guessing that they wanted monk to not rely on raid buffs. Which I think is kind of unique as we can just do our own thing without worrying about lining up with a raid.

But obviously we have embraced the jank. Kinda wish they would just give us a answer that mnk should be so damn strong and that’s correctly working.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

I don’t think what they had in mind was intentionally delaying our strongest attack so it can line up with raid buffs. I’m going to take a guess this was unintentional result that they didn’t test for.

I guessing that they wanted monk to not rely on raid buffs. Which I think is kind of unique as we can just do our own thing without worrying about lining up with a raid.

But obviously we have embraced the jank. Kinda wish they would just give us a answer that mnk should be so damn strong and that’s correctly working.

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Obviously they overlooked (or underestimated the community) the whole double phoenix thing, but either way the intentional design was you just did all 3 blitzes in order and phantom rush was supposed to occur outside of raid buff windows.

The wording on my previous post wasn't the best, but that's what I meant by intentional design and I was referring to the double phoenix as "jank" because players are not supposed to be doing that.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Obviously they overlooked (or underestimated the community) the whole double phoenix thing, but either way the intentional design was you just did all 3 blitzes in order and phantom rush was supposed to occur outside of raid buff windows.

The wording on my previous post wasn't the best, but that's what I meant by intentional design and I was referring to the double phoenix as "jank" because players are not supposed to be doing that.

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I agree. I agree even more that they underestimated what the community would have ultimately come up with the double phoenix opener. MNK's dps is in the stratosphere it seems and it's stupid good in raids with a double phoenix opener.

If anything leads me to believe they will fix anything jank...i.e. BLU mage coils farming. That they won't change anything here.

Still just wish they would come out and say..."working as intended" (even though Yoshi P. said otherwise)

We'll have to wait till 6.1 honestly to see any major changes and what their general intentions are for the jobs. Until then MNK and RPR will awkwardly be way above everyone else lol.

I really hate they lined up raid buffs for other jobs yet intentionally made monk janky with its timings. Like why, surely they know the playerbase will do all they can to make things line up anyway.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

I really hate they lined up raid buffs for other jobs yet intentionally made monk janky with its timings. Like why, surely they know the playerbase will do all they can to make things line up anyway.

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I'd imagine balancing reasons. With 6.1 they will either find a way to make double phoenix a dps loss or they will just nerf everything and let you line up phantom rush with the raid buffs....or they will just entirely redesign mnk again because for some reason they can't seem to figure out what to do with mnk lol.

If nothing else, they should really roll back that completely unnecessary monk buff. They were already a top performing job, and despite what SE seems to think, far from the busiest.

I mean the math dmg increase from the phantom rush in best conditions is only 0.82 %. Wasn’t needed because monk already has the best dmg in game at the moment but it doesn’t change a lot. I mean even with that small of a buff it does the same dmg as Blackmage with way more utility (and blm had a 3.90 % dmg increase from the last patch).

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

If nothing else, they should really roll back that completely unnecessary monk buff. They were already a top performing job, and despite what SE seems to think, far from the busiest.

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Well to be fair. I think they are top preforming DPS due to the Double Phoenix Opener so that we can line up with raid buffs. If we didn't have the double phoenix opener I guess we would fall below RPR. Maybe SAM.

The fact the jank is embraced...is exactly why it's one of the job performer. Hind sight is always 20/20 in this regard. SE just didn't predict this I'm assuming.

UGH...I can't make up my mind if I want it fixed to prevent form using dbl nix....or just stick with it while SE just shrugs.

I play on PS5 with controller, and I think that the amount of busy is perfect in that regard. If I was on keyboard...I would probably be pretty bored. I'm stuck in my Main tank role in my static, but I can echo from a main monk that said the old monk would have been AWFUL to run savage. He appreciates the new MNK as it's very forgiving and engaging. He is crying with P3S prog currently.

I'm on the fence with the new MNK....but it's MUCH better then were I stood before this rework. Which was in the love hate camp. Now i'm in the "it's better, but needs the jagged edges removed" camp.

Keep it up SE.

If I had to guess, they will make a change in 6.1 that will prevent double phoenix.

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Originally Posted by Sqwall

Well to be fair. I think they are top preforming DPS due to the Double Phoenix Opener so that we can line up with raid buffs. If we didn't have the double phoenix opener I guess we would fall below RPR. Maybe SAM.

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That strikes me as unlikely. The difference between the openers is small enough that the MNK guide on The Balance recommends defaulting to Lunar/Solar unless you already know your kill time, and are therefore certain you won't lose a use of PR. The removal of double solar might bump up BLM to #1, but that's probably it. MNK as a whole is just overtuned.