How do tank mitigations stack?

Hey, so I'm curious how the tank mitigations interact with one another. Generally speaking we have Rampart at 20%, Reprisal, a 10% damage debuff to put on enemies and then a 30% reduction skill. We then have our 25 sec CD job ability. (Sheltron/TBN ect)

How do these stack, and is it worth it to stack them?

If I use Rampart and then Sentinel, what's the upper most reduction I'm getting out of that? It definitely doesn't feel like a 50% reduction.

What are the diminishing returns for each interaction? And do the self buffs work differently from Reprisal in regards to total incoming damage and reduction?

Ps. Use small numbers. Lol. Explain it to me as if I were a child. >_>.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Hey, so I'm curious how the tank mitigations interact with one another. Generally speaking we have Rampart at 20%, Reprisal, a 10% damage debuff to put on enemies and then a 30% reduction skill. We then have our 25 sec CD job ability. (Sheltron/TBN ect)

How do these stack, and is it worth it to stack them?

If I use Rampart and then Sentinel, what's the upper most reduction I'm getting out of that? It definitely doesn't feel like a 50% reduction.

What are the diminishing returns for each interaction? And do the self buffs work differently from Reprisal in regards to total incoming damage and reduction?

Ps. Use small numbers. Lol. Explain it to me as if I were a child. >_>.

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The effects are separate.

So, if you use Rampart and Sentinel together they reduce damage taken separately.

If you were to take 100 damage then Rampart would reduce it by 20% to 80 damage, then Sentinel would reduce that 80 damage by 30% for a total damage of 56.

mitigation in this game stacks multiplicatively. So using rampart and reprisal means youll end up with a 28% damage reduction instead of a 30% damage reduction. The diminishing returns are extremely dependent on the combination used, but you can check it with simple math (1-a)*(1-b).
This means that technically, you get more out of each mitigation cooldown if you use them on their own, however, in high end content several attacks will require multiple mitigations to be used to survive an attack, so stacking is sometimes inevitable. In dungeons, trash packs often die before you use every single cooldown, so stacking one or two them is fine as well. Just keep in mind that the more cooldowns you stack, the less effective the next one becomes.

That's awesome, thanks a lot for the answers guys. I appreciate it.

Further more, this is why it can be better to stack different types of mitigation.
For example a shield (TBN) with a damage reduction (Rampart) will actually complement each other, as you're reducing the amount of damage being taken, which allows the shield to cover more of that damage.

e.g. You have 1000 HP, you use TBN for a 250 HP shield, and Rampart for a 20% damage reduction. This allows the TBN to cover 312 raw damage.

Don't forget Arm's length. The slow that it applies is a very valuable defensive tool in big pulls.

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Originally Posted by Erik501

Don't forget Arm's length. The slow that it applies is a very valuable defensive tool in big pulls.

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We're talking about damage mitigation abilities, not utility.

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Originally Posted by Erik501

Don't forget Arm's length. The slow that it applies is a very valuable defensive tool in big pulls.

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Arm's Length will still cause diminishing returns. Let's say you get hit by 1000 10 times for 10000 total damage.. Ramparts on its own reduces that by 2000, Arm's Length on its own reduces it to 8 attacks meaning it reduces incoming damage by 2000 as well, resulting in 8000 total damage and then adding Ramparts would technically lose value and reduce 1600 damage. Not disagreeing, just clarifying something.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

We're talking about damage mitigation abilities, not utility.

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Arm's Length is a form of mitigation since slow effects reduce incoming DPS. Many non-tanks and sprouts miss this part, but when trash pulls hit you with Arm's Length it applies a slow to reduce their attack rates which is a very good form of damage reduction.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

We're talking about damage mitigation abilities, not utility.

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Arms Length is actually one of the best mitigation tools for trash mobs in the game.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

Arms Length is actually one of the best mitigation tools for trash mobs in the game.

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Sure, you're right, but that's not necessarily what I was asking about. I wasn't asking about all the good ways to avoid damage, but simply how certain abilities with percent reductions stacked. Not necessarily avoidances.

I don't understand how I can fully stack multiple book cases in my inventory, but stack a little defense and it's all percentages and compromise.

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Originally Posted by Sauteed

I don't understand how I can fully stack multiple book cases in my inventory, but stack a little defense and it's all percentages and compromise.

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Apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Sure, you're right, but that's not necessarily what I was asking about. I wasn't asking about all the good ways to avoid damage, but simply how certain abilities with percent reductions stacked. Not necessarily avoidances.

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Originally Posted by Ryaduera

Arm's Length will still cause diminishing returns. Let's say you get hit by 1000 10 times for 10000 total damage.. Ramparts on its own reduces that by 2000, Arm's Length on its own reduces it to 8 attacks meaning it reduces incoming damage by 2000 as well, resulting in 8000 total damage and then adding Ramparts would technically lose value and reduce 1600 damage.

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We know, and we're trying to help. It also has diminishing returns when stacked.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Further more, this is why it can be better to stack different types of mitigation.
For example a shield (TBN) with a damage reduction (Rampart) will actually complement each other, as you're reducing the amount of damage being taken, which allows the shield to cover more of that damage.

e.g. You have 1000 HP, you use TBN for a 250 HP shield, and Rampart for a 20% damage reduction. This allows the TBN to cover 312 raw damage.

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Probably worth mentioning that this relies on the shield still getting consumed fully. Otherwise it backfires.

also worth mentioning, all tanks have an inherrent -20% dmg taken built into them (from when tank stance used to mitigate 20% dmg taken, but removed from tank stance, making it just natural in tanks by default)
so a -30% and a -20% also have an additional -20% already caked in, making them further weaker than whats suggested here.

Mitigation is multiplicative.

Rampart is a 0.8 multiplier.

Shadow Wall is a 0.7 multiplier.

0.8*0.7=0.56

Our damage multiplier is 0.56

As a percentage, this is 44%.

Stacking shouldn't really be a thought, aside from something like Rampart and Arm's Length or reprisal and your 25 sec CD. You want to spread them out as much as possible, depending on the DPS output you're dealing with.

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Stacking shouldn't really be a thought, aside from something like Rampart and Arm's Length or reprisal and your 25 sec CD. You want to spread them out as much as possible, depending on the DPS output you're dealing with.

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In dungeons yes, you space out your mitigation, certain tank busters in Savage and ultimate however, you do need to stack, it was especially the case for e12s door boss which hit exceptionally hard, you had to stack multiple mitigation cooldowns or invuln.