Borderless Windowed poor performance (stuttering/seemingly low fps)

Hello!
I've been racking my head around this issue for a long time now. I play in fullscreen mode but for ease of use (and possibly fixing my directx woes) I want to play in borderless windowed. However, when I use borderless windowed I get really stuttery performance.

What I mean by that is my fps reading says the game is running at 82 fps (my cap) but looking at it, it's clearly not. If I switch to fullscreen, buttery smooth, clearly running at 82fps.

I run two monitors. Main one is 1440p 165Hz with Gsync. The other 1080p 60hz no gsync. I've tried a lot of possible fixes but nothing has worked.
Can anyone help me?

Same here. Even I enabled G-Sync setting on full screen and windowed, it seems just working with exclusive full screen and windowed, borderless window is not supported. I also play WoW which only support windowed and borderless window, the same issue exist with dx11 client but dx12 client works fine, so I guess G-Sync does not support dx11 borderless window, maybe a bug with nvidia's driver.

While I don't have a really solid solution for you, I do know that GSync can work in borderless windowed mode; I'm running in that configuration.

THAT SAID, Razer's "game boost" thing has sometimes erroneously gotten confused by stuff and caused my game to drop to like 20-some FPS for chunks of time specifically in borderless windowed. If you happen to have a Razer keyboard or gaming mouse or whatever, I might temporarily quit Razer Catalyst (or disable the "Game Boost" mode before starting FFXIV) and see if that improves it.

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

While I don't have a really solid solution for you, I do know that GSync can work in borderless windowed mode; I'm running in that configuration.

THAT SAID, Razer's "game boost" thing has sometimes erroneously gotten confused by stuff and caused my game to drop to like 20-some FPS for chunks of time specifically in borderless windowed. If you happen to have a Razer keyboard or gaming mouse or whatever, I might temporarily quit Razer Catalyst (or disable the "Game Boost" mode before starting FFXIV) and see if that improves it.

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I do have a razer mouse...when you drop to 20 fps does the game say you're running at that specific frame rate?

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Originally Posted by WillisMacvalin

Hello!
I've been racking my head around this issue for a long time now. I play in fullscreen mode but for ease of use (and possibly fixing my directx woes) I want to play in borderless windowed. However, when I use borderless windowed I get really stuttery performance.

What I mean by that is my fps reading says the game is running at 82 fps (my cap) but looking at it, it's clearly not. If I switch to fullscreen, buttery smooth, clearly running at 82fps.

I run two monitors. Main one is 1440p 165Hz with Gsync. The other 1080p 60hz no gsync. I've tried a lot of possible fixes but nothing has worked.
Can anyone help me?

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The internal FPS limit does not function properly on Borderless Window with high refresh monitors and never has, it introduces a faulty vsync which will result in you getting the divised rate of the current potential framerate instead of divising the peak refresh rate, similar issues can be seen in Grim Dawn when using vsync+borderless.

ie, on a 144hz display, if you can only achieve 82fps the 1/2 limit will result in 41fps in Borderless window, instead of the 72 that Fullscreen achieves.

utilise RTSS to achieve your desired frame cap instead when using borderless.

Else, use Fullscreen, Windows 10+ optimizes fullscreen modes to behave closer to borderless windowed.

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Originally Posted by Puss_Kat

The internal FPS limit does not function properly on Borderless Window with high refresh monitors and never has, it introduces a faulty vsync which will result in you getting the divised rate of the current potential framerate instead of divising the peak refresh rate, similar issues can be seen in Grim Dawn when using vsync+borderless.

ie, on a 144hz display, if you can only achieve 82fps the 1/2 limit will result in 41fps in Borderless window, instead of the 72 that Fullscreen achieves.

utilise RTSS to achieve your desired frame cap instead when using borderless.

Else, use Fullscreen, Windows 10+ optimizes fullscreen modes to behave closer to borderless windowed.

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Hiya! Yeh I don't use in-game fps limit. I already use RTSS to limit my fps.

I logged in today and suddenly my borderless window performance has dropped considerably. I take it ya'll are having the same issue?

game hasn't updated, so anything that has happened has done so within your windows environments, check the power/thermal targets of any gpu tools, windows own game mode settings, focus assist, etc.

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Originally Posted by WillisMacvalin

Hello!
I've been racking my head around this issue for a long time now. I play in fullscreen mode but for ease of use (and possibly fixing my directx woes) I want to play in borderless windowed. However, when I use borderless windowed I get really stuttery performance.

What I mean by that is my fps reading says the game is running at 82 fps (my cap) but looking at it, it's clearly not. If I switch to fullscreen, buttery smooth, clearly running at 82fps.

I run two monitors. Main one is 1440p 165Hz with Gsync. The other 1080p 60hz no gsync. I've tried a lot of possible fixes but nothing has worked.
Can anyone help me?

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I encountered this issue last night, I'll make a proper bug report topic on it shortly. In the meantime, if you were to check your GPU frequency I would bet it is half of what it should be while playing FinFan. Right?

There are two things that have to be enabled for this bug to exist.

1.) "Reduce frame rates while minimized" or whatever it is.
2.) Some kind of frame cap. Be it vsync. Fast vsync. Gsync.

What is occurring: For whatever reason, the driver or the game thinks that the game isn't in focus. The clock rate (speed, power) of the graphics card drops to next to nothing. What should be a smooth 144 or 120 fps experience on a 3080, 3090, becomes a 12-20 fps experience.

How to fix: Turn off the reduced framerate when minimized. Set the frame cap to off, or set it to the full refresh rate of your monitor. Even going down to 120hz from my own 144hz native rate will trigger this bug unless I set the refresh rate of my monitor to 120hz first in the driver suite, and then run "Full" refresh rate in final fantasy.

Let me know if this fixes it for you.

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Originally Posted by DatOni

I logged in today and suddenly my borderless window performance has dropped considerably. I take it ya'll are having the same issue?

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Yup. See my above post for the fix.

It seems like the newest GeForce drivers triggered it for me, but there is a work around I mentioned above so you don't have to downgrade.

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Originally Posted by Puss_Kat

The internal FPS limit does not function properly on Borderless Window with high refresh monitors and never has, it introduces a faulty vsync which will result in you getting the divised rate of the current potential framerate instead of divising the peak refresh rate, similar issues can be seen in Grim Dawn when using vsync+borderless.

ie, on a 144hz display, if you can only achieve 82fps the 1/2 limit will result in 41fps in Borderless window, instead of the 72 that Fullscreen achieves.

utilise RTSS to achieve your desired frame cap instead when using borderless.

Else, use Fullscreen, Windows 10+ optimizes fullscreen modes to behave closer to borderless windowed.

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I do agree that it may have never worked right for some users, but mine was working just fine for me up until recent driver updates. Likewise, I don't think the cause of the issue is down to dividing potential vs actual.

I think the bigger issue is what I found experimenting with GPU-Z, which is that the graphics card itself is not being utilized properly when the half and fourth rate options are selected. My graphics card is running at 900MHz~ when I am using half or fourth. Despite half being north of 60fps, on a 144hz refresh rate monitor. However, if I set the refresh rate to a non-native 60hz or 72hz and then attempt a false "Full" refresh rate cap, it works fine and the clock gears up to it's normal 1700MHz~1980MHz ranges.

What is telling is the fact that I also see the 900MHz~ core clock range when the game is minimize and the reduce fps while minimize option is enabled. So is something about the game thinking it is minimized when running at half or fourth? Some kind of failure to call for proper resources due to windows borderless full screen optimization? Hard to say.

I think all the developers need do, to fix this, is ensure that the game is properly demanding the graphics card perform as if it is running a game instead of running at speeds usually reserved for photoshop or watching a blueray movie. Especially when "faking" a lower refresh rate monitor manages to marshal these same-such resources properly.

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Originally Posted by Geirr

Yup. See my above post for the fix.

It seems like the newest GeForce drivers triggered it for me, but there is a work around I mentioned above so you don't have to downgrade.

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Look, okay, I am somewhat Laptop illiterate, so please bear with me.


Intel HD provides my graphics on a Dell laptop. In the control panel, I have an option for Vertical Sync (I assume this is what Vsync stands for, hopefully I'm not that much of a dummy) between "Application settings" and "Driver Settings". I tried switching between the two but it didn't seem to do anything, no matter what FPS option I chose from the FFXIV display settings.

Am I missing something?

EDIT: To wit, my other games like Dota2 are suddenly struggling as well.
Also, windowed mode, not borderless windowed, works perfectly, unless I maximize the window. What on earth is going on here?

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Originally Posted by DatOni

Look, okay, I am somewhat Laptop illiterate, so please bear with me.


Intel HD provides my graphics on a Dell laptop. In the control panel, I have an option for Vertical Sync (I assume this is what Vsync stands for, hopefully I'm not that much of a dummy) between "Application settings" and "Driver Settings". I tried switching between the two but it didn't seem to do anything, no matter what FPS option I chose from the FFXIV display settings.

Am I missing something?

EDIT: To wit, my other games like Dota2 are suddenly struggling as well.
Also, windowed mode, not borderless windowed, works perfectly, unless I maximize the window. What on earth is going on here?

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You're right to say Vsync is vertical sync.

Basically what I was saying was you need to run the game uncapped. Vsync disabled. In both the game, and the application settings offered by intel HD for final fantasy. Or if you want to run with a cap, you should always choose your maximum refresh rate in game and never the half rate or quarter rate options offered in game. If the maximum is too fast, on the monitor/display options where the resolution choices are, you can also usually choose a maximum refresh rate. ( 60, 72, 90, 120 on high end stuff. On a laptop, 60 may already be as high as you can go. )

Beyond that, it might be the borderless full screen "optimizations" microsoft rolled out some years ago causing the drop in FPS when you go full screen. You can disable the optimizations, but how depends on what updates you have installed into windows. Some people have to go to the game folder, find the game itself, right click it and go to properties, then disabled full screen optimizations under the compatibility tab.

Others have to go through the built in Xbox game bar to disable it there. You'll have to do some hunting and some google if you can't find it. Wishing you the best luck, my system is a full fledged desktop though, so at least some of us are suffering with you. Lol!

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Originally Posted by Geirr

I do agree that it may have never worked right for some users, but mine was working just fine for me up until recent driver updates. Likewise, I don't think the cause of the issue is down to dividing potential vs actual.

I think the bigger issue is what I found experimenting with GPU-Z, which is that the graphics card itself is not being utilized properly when the half and fourth rate options are selected. My graphics card is running at 900MHz~ when I am using half or fourth. Despite half being north of 60fps, on a 144hz refresh rate monitor. However, if I set the refresh rate to a non-native 60hz or 72hz and then attempt a false "Full" refresh rate cap, it works fine and the clock gears up to it's normal 1700MHz~1980MHz ranges.

What is telling is the fact that I also see the 900MHz~ core clock range when the game is minimize and the reduce fps while minimize option is enabled. So is something about the game thinking it is minimized when running at half or fourth? Some kind of failure to call for proper resources due to windows borderless full screen optimization? Hard to say.

I think all the developers need do, to fix this, is ensure that the game is properly demanding the graphics card perform as if it is running a game instead of running at speeds usually reserved for photoshop or watching a blueray movie. Especially when "faking" a lower refresh rate monitor manages to marshal these same-such resources properly.

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the divisor limits never worked properly for anyone in borderless, there is no "for some" or "it worked fine for me", it didn't cap the framerate correctly in borderless mode under any case because of what it is actually doing.

Assumedly they have a block of code in the wrong nested location, because a frame limit shouldn't vsync period.

what is your GPU usage when the game is working fine?, Nvidia hardware has a fixed load based power manager that will reduce the gpu clocks if util goes below 30% (similar it raises them at 45% 2d clock)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DatOni

Look, okay, I am somewhat Laptop illiterate, so please bear with me.


Intel HD provides my graphics on a Dell laptop. In the control panel, I have an option for Vertical Sync (I assume this is what Vsync stands for, hopefully I'm not that much of a dummy) between "Application settings" and "Driver Settings". I tried switching between the two but it didn't seem to do anything, no matter what FPS option I chose from the FFXIV display settings.

Am I missing something?

EDIT: To wit, my other games like Dota2 are suddenly struggling as well.
Also, windowed mode, not borderless windowed, works perfectly, unless I maximize the window. What on earth is going on here?

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this issue is not caused by display drivers, it appears to be Windows itself or other third party software such as citrix workstation.

the Vsync control in the intel control panel is for D3D9 only, it isn't applicable to DXGI renderers.

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Originally Posted by Geirr

I encountered this issue last night, I'll make a proper bug report topic on it shortly. In the meantime, if you were to check your GPU frequency I would bet it is half of what it should be while playing FinFan. Right?

There are two things that have to be enabled for this bug to exist.

1.) "Reduce frame rates while minimized" or whatever it is.
2.) Some kind of frame cap. Be it vsync. Fast vsync. Gsync.

What is occurring: For whatever reason, the driver or the game thinks that the game isn't in focus. The clock rate (speed, power) of the graphics card drops to next to nothing. What should be a smooth 144 or 120 fps experience on a 3080, 3090, becomes a 12-20 fps experience.

How to fix: Turn off the reduced framerate when minimized. Set the frame cap to off, or set it to the full refresh rate of your monitor. Even going down to 120hz from my own 144hz native rate will trigger this bug unless I set the refresh rate of my monitor to 120hz first in the driver suite, and then run "Full" refresh rate in final fantasy.

Let me know if this fixes it for you.

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I have a 3060 with a 144hz monitor and before today's maintenance I had the fps locked at 72 and it worked, after I encountered an issue with the fps lock(for 144 i had like 90, for 72 i had around 49), but now even with no limit cap it is locked at 41-45

Would like to add that I was having this issue, and updating my gpu driver to 528.24 appears to have fixed this issue. On 3070ti for what its worth.