Delaying all Savage tiers by 2 weeks

I think it's a terrible idea and I hate it.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edit: There seems to be a misunderstanding. Yoshi said in a previous live letter that they were considering delaying the release of Savages by 2 weeks after normal. This is instead of only the first Savage of an expansion being delayed and the second and third tier coming out the same day as Normal.

This has nothing to do with COVID.

A delay in this day in age?

In my COVID world?

In this region of Japan?

Great Googly Moogly!

Was this announced or something?

It's a terrible idea to give them more time to finish fixing everything before they drop new content that may threaten break everything a second time?

Unrelated question: Did you happen to take time off work?

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Originally Posted by NegativeS

It's a terrible idea to give them more time to finish fixing everything before they drop new content that may threaten break everything a second time?

Unrelated question: Did you happen to take time off work?

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Delaying what little content we have is annoying. And them fixing everything before they drop new content that will not happen. Did you not play shadowbringers and see the state ranged physical was in the entire expansion? Have you played Dark Knight?

Not sure why you guys jumped to covid but I edited the post to make it more clear.

I think people usually ask for this so they have time to enjoy the content before being thrown into race mode.

EDIT: Mizzteq asked for it but didn't get a conclusive answer

I dont know about you, but I have WAAAY too much other crap to finish that keeps me busy till next content raids. Eureka, Bozja, leveling my combat jobs/crafters, beast tribes, mount farming, card collecting, getting stuff for my apartment, glam hunting, relic weapons (for glams) etc.

If people are complaining about "content drought" then I seriously commend them to having most of these other things you can do already done and done.

I don't mind the delay, though I feel that 1 week would be perfectly sufficient instead of 2.

I'd love to have a two week delay between normal and savage mode for every tier. Then I would have time to enjoy the raid story, vs trying to rush it to get to savage ASAP and not miss out on weekly loot. Not to mention, with normal mode out of the way that means less people overall for world racers to have to deal with in queue (especially if they disconnect).

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think it's a terrible idea and I hate it.

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Why exactly?

Dear reader if this is the first post you see upon opening this thread, yes you were click baited by the OP.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I think people usually ask for this so they have time to enjoy the content before being thrown into race mode.

EDIT: Mizzteq asked for it but didn't get a conclusive answer

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Yeah I remember that, I personally think it's a good idea. However I can see why he could not flat out and commit because there are several intangibles tied to the savage tier.

Like the new 450 capped tome would normally drop the same time of the new savage in 6.2.. So delaying savage two weeks might mean they have to delay the currency as well to prevent gear/ilevel creep for the race and clears. I think that is doable, and they can just do the same things they did in 6.01. People can enjoy normal mode with the current currency, and the new story primal (extreme) for two weeks.

Then in 6.21+ they can drop savage and the new capped tome/gear at the same time to keep a fair playing field. Would allow the community to experience the story, extreme, and savage all together methodically in a sense.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Delaying what little content we have is annoying. And them fixing everything before they drop new content that will not happen. Did you not play shadowbringers and see the state ranged physical was in the entire expansion? Have you played Dark Knight?

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Speak for yourself. As someone who crafts for week 1, having just a one week delay would be heavenly. Not only could I actually enjoy the story on my main without skipping, I'd have time to do the EX primal and other stuff instead of focusing entirely on Savage.

With that said, I'd still argue the best compromise is to simply not force you to go through Normal mode to unlock Savage. Just have a warning prompt appear that explains jumping straight into Savage will lead to some spoilers.

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Originally Posted by technole

Yeah I remember that, I personally think it's a good idea. However I can see why he could not flat out and commit because there are several intangibles tied to the savage tier.

Like the new 450 capped tome would normally drop the same time of the new savage in 6.2.. So delaying savage two weeks might mean they have to delay the currency as well to prevent gear/ilevel creep for the race and clears. I think that is doable, and they can just do the same things they did in 6.01. People can enjoy normal mode with the current currency, and the new story primal (extreme) for two weeks.

Then in 6.21+ they can drop savage and the new capped tome/gear at the same time to keep a fair playing field. Would allow the community to experience the story, extreme, and savage all together methodically in a sense.

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If they go with a one week delay, I think you could still release the new tomes but not the gear itself. That way you'll essentially "bank" 450, which is often the better course of action as buying chest, legs or now weapon will typically be the best upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Why exactly?

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I think any problems a delay would fix could also be fixed in a way that doesn't force others without those same problems to have to wait to do the content they're most excited about.

The one that I usually see is people wanting time to complete Normal mode and see the story before jumping into savage but not having enough time before their static wants to start doing Savage. Imo, this can be fixed by either removing the requirement to do normal first entirely or make it that you need to do the normal version of a specific fight before doing the Savage version.

Another fix would be just talking with your static and starting savage a day later but people seem to get angry with that idea.

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think any problems a delay would fix could also be fixed in a way that doesn't force others without those same problems to have to wait to do the content they're most excited about.

The one that I usually see is people wanting time to complete Normal mode and see the story before jumping into savage but not having enough time before their static wants to start doing Savage. Imo, this can be fixed by either removing the requirement to do normal first entirely or make it that you need to do the normal version of a specific fight before doing the Savage version.

Another fix would be just talking with your static and starting savage a day later but people seem to get angry with that idea.

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Normal mode allows people to brainstorm on the potential mechanics. Additionally, the bosses themselves in some instances can act as potential spoilers for the story, so realistically delaying savage is the best course of action. Part of the enjoyment is the rush and hype that is associated with completing content when it is new and fresh. This being the chance to engage in the encounters where guides or resources aren't really available - Plus some people just like the race. Delaying your involvement in savage basically renders the race moot for them.

They'll never do it, because that would also mean delaying the new tomestones too.
Which'd affect pretty much the entire active playerbase at 90, not just the 10% or so that care about Savage in the slightest.

Speaking of raids and the stuff going on outside, you all might consider using the delay to get some omicron...gear! Visit the old omega raids! If you can't beat em just join them and look fashionable too!

I'd love to see a two week delay. I've always found the scramble between normal mode and savage annoying. I usually have to rely on running through on an alt later to really enjoy the raid story.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

They'll never do it, because that would also mean delaying the new tomestones too.
Which'd affect pretty much the entire active playerbase at 90, not just the 10% or so that care about Savage in the slightest.

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The final fight of many tiers has a clear rate approaching 30% on some Japanese servers. (Titan was as high as 35% on Mana). It's not hard to extrapolate that the rate is probably much higher for the earlier floors in the tier, which are significantly more accessible. The raiding community has also absolutely exploded between SHB and EW. Seeing well over 130 PFs listed for savage raids in the evenings of the first week was wild.

No matter how strongly you wish it was an unpopular aspect of the game, Raiding has become a pretty big deal.

How does tome gear getting slightly delayed even hurt casual players? Outside of glamour, what value does tome gear even have to someone who has 0 interest in pushing margins or clearing hard fights?

This has been considered for years but the problem is that the raids are scaled to the gear situation on release and two weeks of normal raids gives you time to study mechanics that will obviously be in savage as well. An exception is made for the first tier because the expansion is new, rotations are new and there are a lot of new players but the later tiers are to be more challenging because everybody is used to the expansion.

I can understand that for some people like students who have much more free time for some reason or another, or for streamers/hardcore raiders who have this as their job it can be sad.

I personally don't mind content coming in smaller doses or slower pace. I personally am working a 40+ OT hours per week. I would be happy if I had more time to go through other things first.

But again, I am not a good example cause I am doing PF savage exclusive so I dunno how stressful it could be to be in a static. But I thought people are in a static so that they can discuss and align things better... (However, I am just thinking, would this also better for statics? As far as I know statics have a loot order/priority on who gets the gears first and this would allow for them enough time to gear everyone from the previous 4 savages, before jumping to the next one...)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

This has been considered for years but the problem is that the raids are scaled to the gear situation on release and two weeks of normal raids gives you time to study mechanics that will obviously be in savage as well. An exception is made for the first tier because the expansion is new, rotations are new and there are a lot of new players but the later tiers are to be more challenging because everybody is used to the expansion.

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The gearing point is moot. Day one Savage is cleared with penta-melded crafted which is just objectively better than any normal raid pieces bar very few exceptions.

I think one is fine, two is a bit much but I'd rather take two than no delay at all. I don't even do world races but it just lets people in my static get in at our own pace and be prepared to log in and immediately do savage.

I been asking for it for a while now, and I think world-racers want it more than me, but if it doesn't happen it's not the end of the world for me.

I'd love to have the two week gap so I can enjoy the story and actually DO the normal raids. Rather than rushing cut scenes and story mode to get to savage on release. Sure, I can go back and watch it at the inn but it's not the same :(

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Originally Posted by Akava

I think it's a terrible idea and I hate it.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Edit: There seems to be a misunderstanding. Yoshi said in a previous live letter that they were considering delaying the release of Savages by 2 weeks after normal. This is instead of only the first Savage of an expansion being delayed and the second and third tier coming out the same day as Normal.

This has nothing to do with COVID.

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I support a delay 100% but two weeks is a bit much, one week would be perfect. I hated the release on the same day as normal for working folks that actually care about the story aswell as the challenge it's a bit too much.
But yeah if it's a two week delay or none at all, I take the two weeks too.
Also I could actually do the new primal in raid times with my group rather than doing it off-raid with other folks.

I'm actually entirely on board with Savage waiting two weeks after Normals for every tier.

Gives crafters prep time for any new food/tinctures/gear they need to make instead of the mad benny hill dash to try get it all done on the day.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

I'm actually entirely on board with Savage waiting two weeks after Normals for every tier.

Gives crafters prep time for any new food/tinctures/gear they need to make instead of the mad benny hill dash to try get it all done on the day.

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I would support a system similar to 6.0 > 6.05, wherein the requisite materials are already pre-released. But the actual recipes themselves? Not so much. It has the advantage of allowing people to prepare, sure. But on the other hand buying the gear on the first day would be near pointless. So crafters would be looking at less and less profits. Which they arguably already have an issue with. So I think pre-releasing the materials, but not the gear is a nice middle-ground.

They've always put out the initial raid of an expansion a couple weeks after the story mode.
This is nothing new.
The later two sets of savage will all come out at the same time as their story counterparts, again not new.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

I would support a system similar to 6.0 > 6.05, wherein the requisite materials are already pre-released. But the actual recipes themselves? Not so much. It has the advantage of allowing people to prepare, sure. But on the other hand buying the gear on the first day would be near pointless. So crafters would be looking at less and less profits. Which they arguably already have an issue with. So I think pre-releasing the materials, but not the gear is a nice middle-ground.

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Yeah that's what I was thinking that it would continue that trend.

Nodes and new materials on the Normal raid patch, Recipes on the Savage patch.

No. This is one of the worst ideas I've heard for this game. There's already too little battle content, don't delay it.

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Originally Posted by Xuled

No. This is one of the worst ideas I've heard for this game. There's already too little battle content, don't delay it.

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A two week delay isn't a big delay and takes massive pressure off crafters/gatherers who on patch day where both Savage and normal release together? Don't get to do it because they need to log in as the servers go live immediately camp nodes, gather, craft and not get to do much else but that.

Crafters/Gatherers are an incredibly important component in the static machine, I'm the crafter for mine and I have to take a substitute spot because in live week my entire week is spent crafting and gathering so the static can begin prog and keep going.

I'd like to actually be able to go on a main spot instead of a substitute spot that gets a mid week clear with part PUG but those Tinctures, Food and gear pieces won't make themselves.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I dont know about you, but I have WAAAY too much other crap to finish that keeps me busy till next content raids. Eureka, Bozja, leveling my combat jobs/crafters, beast tribes, mount farming, card collecting, getting stuff for my apartment, glam hunting, relic weapons (for glams) etc.

If people are complaining about "content drought" then I seriously commend them to having most of these other things you can do already done and done.

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Not everyone likes all that crap. Eureka was the worst content ever and bozja was nothing more than fate farming. Card game is a poor version of the original in FF8 with RNG drop rates. Not everyone has a house or apartment and not everyone can be bothered to level 19 jobs they won’t play. Some people actually only want to raid and so delaying it only serves to delay the only content they want to do. Just because YOU enjoy the crappy side content doesn’t mean others don’t consider it fun. So yes… no raid may seem like a content drought

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I think people usually ask for this so they have time to enjoy the content before being thrown into race mode.

EDIT: Mizzteq asked for it but didn't get a conclusive answer

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the solution is then just dont race lol

clear the content at your own pace

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

A two week delay isn't a big delay and takes massive pressure off crafters/gatherers who on patch day where both Savage and normal release together? Don't get to do it because they need to log in as the servers go live immediately camp nodes, gather, craft and not get to do much else but that.

Crafters/Gatherers are an incredibly important component in the static machine, I'm the crafter for mine and I have to take a substitute spot because in live week my entire week is spent crafting and gathering so the static can begin prog and keep going.

I'd like to actually be able to go on a main spot instead of a substitute spot that gets a mid week clear with part PUG but those Tinctures, Food and gear pieces won't make themselves.

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So this is a poor excuse to delay a raid. I myself craft all my own gear, lead my own raid team and between myself and the other 4 crafters in my team we all supply everyone with what’s needed day 1. No 9th man or sub needed. Plenty of time to do so

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

So this is a poor excuse to delay a raid. I myself craft all my own gear, lead my own raid team and between myself and the other 4 crafters in my team we all supply everyone with what’s needed day 1. No 9th man or sub needed. Plenty of time to do so

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*woosh*

The sound of you completely missing the point.

Not every static, hell a lot of them don't have 5 crafters. They typically have 1 or 2.

You're in the rare and fortunate position that you have 5.

Hell the world first race Statics have an entire team that do nothing but gather/craft the whole day.

Xenosys and MrHappy both posted screens of their entire crafting team to show just what goes into getting them off to a fast start.

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

*woosh*

The sound of you completely missing the point.

Not every static, hell a lot of them don't have 5 crafters. They typically have 1 or 2.

You're in the rare and fortunate position that you have 5.

Hell the world first race Statics have an entire team that do nothing but gather/craft the whole day.

Xenosys and MrHappy both posted screens of their entire crafting team to show just what goes into getting them off to a fast start.

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That’s world first raiders, are you a world first raider? Does this effect you?

As a crafter I know how long it takes to make a full set of gear for a player. An hour tops including gathering and I can also tell you that this patch everyone had all their materials pre-gathered so that reduced that time even more. So even with your 1 or 2 per team plucked out your arse average it’s still not gonna take that long to field a full team with whatever they desire. So I say again. Poor excuse to delay a raid tier, dumb reason to be a 9th man

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

A two week delay isn't a big delay and takes massive pressure off crafters/gatherers who on patch day where both Savage and normal release together? Don't get to do it because they need to log in as the servers go live immediately camp nodes, gather, craft and not get to do much else but that.

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What pressure? If you are a first world racer then yeah there is that pressure ... but these are not people, these are team with a support system that's probably bigger than the actual reading team. And are you a world racer.


Below that, week 1 clear. You still have a whole week to do it, and the gears won't matter until the the 3rd and 4th floor anway. I cleared P1S day 1 with 10 deaths, I beat P2S day 3 with 6 deaths and a healer LB3 and that was with raiding jsut 3h a day. That means even if you do it with gear one tier below you can still do it. If you can not beat the DPS check then ... let's just say the issue won't be about the gears. So what pressure?

And below that, it means you're just like the rest of us who probably spend 3-4 weeks until a full clears ... so what pressure?


Are you sure you're not just inventing this pressure?

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

That’s world first raiders, are you a world first raider? Does this effect you?

As a crafter I know how long it takes to make a full set of gear for a player. An hour tops including gathering and I can also tell you that this patch everyone had all their materials pre-gathered so that reduced that time even more. So even with your 1 or 2 per team plucked out your arse average it’s still not gonna take that long to field a full team with whatever they desire. So I say again. Poor excuse to delay a raid tier, dumb reason to be a 9th man

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I would think more people than you like to believe would much prefer the delay so they can focus on doing the normal modes, story, or preparation, be it gear preparation or just people having the opportunity to study the normal mode counterparts. 2 weeks is excessive, but a 1 week delay is a perfectly reasonable request. If you don't care about story to where you can skip it without consequence then good for you but a majority of people would enjoy that luxury without having to potentially compromise with a delay on their raid time, or without needing to watch it on an alt. People can actually enjoy the content without feeling obligated to race through it.

If you're looking to do a full week 1 clear, then you need to worry about getting full crafted penta-melded gear asap. However, if you're looking to week one clear you most likely have crafters, crafter friends/static members or the gil to buy crafted gear, at least you better because you're gonna burn through gil just getting all the melds in. Most importantly, you probably have time to play the game a lot during that first week.

If you're not looking to do a full week 1 clear, you don't need fully penta-melded crafted gear on day one. The first 2 fights can easily be cleared with whatever the previous BIS was. Hell, if you have the skill you can get away with killing the 3rd fight with the previous BIS as well, but you should have plenty of time to gear up before then.

In fact, if gil is tight, it makes sense to wait a couple of days for prices to fall if you're not crafting and gathering mats yourself. Then earn more gil afterwards before the next raid patch drops 7 months later.

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Originally Posted by Wyakin

That’s world first raiders, are you a world first raider? Does this effect you?

As a crafter I know how long it takes to make a full set of gear for a player. An hour tops including gathering and I can also tell you that this patch everyone had all their materials pre-gathered so that reduced that time even more. So even with your 1 or 2 per team plucked out your arse average it’s still not gonna take that long to field a full team with whatever they desire. So I say again. Poor excuse to delay a raid tier, dumb reason to be a 9th man

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Wiffs of absolute arrogance your post does.

On a New Normal Tier, what do we typically get, remember this game is not aimed at content cannibals and no lifers, but people that work most of the time in real jobs and can spare a few hours a day tops, except on days off work where they midcore it.

-They drop a new crafter set that first must be crafted and Pentamelded

-They drop a story dungeon

-They drop the Normal Raid 4 series for that tier

-They turn on new nodes/extra materials and Recipes

-They drop the Savage

All of which you'll do, especially the story content as that's typically the gate to get in that you progress the MSQ before you get access.

So let's say the average player works 40 hours a week. ..
They get 6-7 hours tops per day to play

So they'd have to:

-Log in immediately on server up
-go straight into MSQ, clear it, clear the dungeon, skip every cut scene
-Go straight away after to gather the stuff they need to make the new crafter set, pray to RNGesus it pentamelds easily
-straight from there to new normal tier, clear it quickly
-gather nodes in between, craft raid food/tinctures


Well damn they gotta go to work now and are out of time!! They might get to raid the day after, but if you're a reset day static tough, you don't get to go play today unless you PTOed every patch day which in adults world, no boss will allow it.

Yes, it's harder content, yes it requires dedication and preparation and practice

But just because you have all the hours in the world clearly does not mean everyone else does and it's time for you to get some perspective that even the world first raiders themselves have been asking for this

14 days, two weeks, a fortnight. Not much of an ask is it? You're acting like it's getting delayed 3 months like the third tier of Eden was...sheesh.