The Nightmare (Spoilers)

I know the actual nightmare isn't very new anymore, but something struck me the other day.

The cutscene ends with you kneeling over a black wolf and Nael Van Darnus stabs you in the back. (presumably)

What I'm getting at is, isn't the other Legatus, Gaius Van Baelsar, the one concerned about the meteor project, also know as the Black Wolf? Just as Van Darnus is known as the White Raven?

Is the Wolf in the nightmare supposed to represent Gaius Van Baelsar, having fallen in battle against the Raven? Against you? Some other mysterious entity?

I'm seeing a little foreshadowing here and I'm inclined to think that perhaps Van Darnus has gone absolutely insane and Van Baelsar (or even the entire Empire) is going to attempt to stop his insane schemes.

Speculations of course. Thoughts?

first login for 2.0 might be a "how dalamund broke everything" movie

That's quite an interesting theory there. I do admit, I wondered why it seemed to focus on a wolf, amongst my other comrades.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

That's quite an interesting theory there. I do admit, I wondered why it seemed to focus on a wolf, amongst my other comrades.

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Aye. For the longest time, the Wolf puzzled me. All my comrades were down, and there's this random wolf... Then it kinda clicked at this possibility.

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Originally Posted by indira

first login for 2.0 might be a "how dalamund broke everything" movie

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About that... 2.0 is going to be the game everyone plays in the post-Dalamud fall setting, right?

Wouldn't that mean that Dalamud has to actually finish it's fall in the next patch, 1.23?

I mean, if 2.0 is going to be the world in which all future players are going to adventure and such...it doesn't make much sense for the fall to happen right at 2.0. Rather the fall would have to happen sooner, in 1.23...

We've only been speculating that 2.0 will see a cutscene involving the final moments of Dalamud...

What if it's much sooner?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

About that... 2.0 is going to be the game everyone plays in the post-Dalamud fall setting, right?

Wouldn't that mean that Dalamud has to actually finish it's fall in the next patch, 1.23?

I mean, if 2.0 is going to be the world in which all future players are going to adventure and such...it doesn't make much sense for the fall to happen right at 2.0. Rather the fall would have to happen sooner, in 1.23...

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I've always just kind of assumed it would be some live server-wide event at some period during 1.23. Considering we still don't really know how this whole thing with Dalamud will end, save for the fact that it'll supposedly transform the world, I can't imagine them fitting that point into the plot properly any other way.

For the record, I'll cringe if we get to 1.23 and it ends up being a case of "well good job saving us hero, but we're still screwed, so go sleep in the inn for 2-3 months k lol bye".

likely shit will start to go down 1.23 and not really end or conclude. I'm assuming there will be some cg trailer linked to the meteor hitting Eorzea at the BEGINNING of 2.0 start up, like the trailer before the game currently. To start stuff off and so new players get the jist of what we went through.

On topic: I think its definitely foreshadowing something. The OP has some interesting and valid reasons for his speculations. That two vans are better than one kinda set them apart in their ways of thinking. (The two generals.)

Since we're on the discussions of spoilers, wasn't there mention of the primals being able to summon a primal during the Garuda quest line? I'm thinking Odin is supposed to be the Elder Primal, which could have something major to do with how Dalamud is shattered as it gets close to Eorzea (2.0 pictures show red crystals being tethered to the ground, like anti-aether?).
We also know that the empire will maintain a presence beyond 2.0, meaning that no matter who dies or what happens with Dalamud, the Empire will still have legatus' running things in our land.

Dalamud is the loyal hound of the moon goddess Menphina. It's possible the hound represents Dalamud. Also of note is that out of all the bodies on the battlefield, the wolf is the last to disappear.

I see a time skip happening from 1.23---> 2.0 patch yoshi-p did say that 1.23 is where we get information on how Dalamud would change the world as we know it and maps would start changing at least from info they been saying here and there. Which mean to rebuild eorzea they have to be a time skip of a few years for everything to get back and the eorzea to grow back to life.

I'm feeling kinda left out here. i still haven't gotten any dreams or nightmares. I know I can youtube it. I'm just curious as to why.

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Originally Posted by AtryxEtair

I'm feeling kinda left out here. i still haven't gotten any dreams or nightmares. I know I can youtube it. I'm just curious as to why.

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it's random and are you sleeping on your bed?

i logout with my bed every time. I log in 3-5 times a week.

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Originally Posted by AtryxEtair

i logout with my bed every time. I log in 3-5 times a week.

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i done it myself and did not get any dreams my gf does and got the dream it just random i guess.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I see a time skip happening from 1.23---> 2.0 patch yoshi-p did say that 1.23 is where we get information on how Dalamud would change the world as we know it and maps would start changing at least from info they been saying here and there. Which mean to rebuild eorzea they have to be a time skip of a few years for everything to get back and the eorzea to grow back to life.

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There's still the option of the devs going all "Inception" with it and saying 1.x was all our character using the Echo to see the events that led to the Cataclysm. Not saying it's the best idea but it would allow them to have as much of a time lapse from 1.23 to 2.0 as they want without too complicated an explanation.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

There's still the option of the devs going all "Inception" with it and saying 1.x was all our character using the Echo to see the events that led to the Cataclysm. Not saying it's the best idea but it would allow them to have as much of a time lapse from 1.23 to 2.0 as they want without too complicated an explanation.

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a idea that we was dreaming sound like it could work but the time of 1.0 and 2.0 could be only 1-3years from each other but i agree seeing how in 2.0 art work show stuff that eorzea people could not build and how the maps look 100x diff even Limsa Lominsa now just look like a small land that would take years for people to rebuild and stuff to grow and stuff to come back to life.

I hope that the mobs would change also making them diff color and finding new way of living on eorzea just like event that could happen on our own earth could be a cool story by itself :)

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

There's still the option of the devs going all "Inception" with it and saying 1.x was all our character using the Echo to see the events that led to the Cataclysm. Not saying it's the best idea but it would allow them to have as much of a time lapse from 1.23 to 2.0 as they want without too complicated an explanation.

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So does that mean we've used the echo within an echo?

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

So does that mean we've used the echo within an echo?

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http://laurenandmaxlikefood.files.wo...-go-deeper.jpg

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

There's still the option of the devs going all "Inception" with it and saying 1.x was all our character using the Echo to see the events that led to the Cataclysm. Not saying it's the best idea but it would allow them to have as much of a time lapse from 1.23 to 2.0 as they want without too complicated an explanation.

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I know people aren't too keen on this theory, but I honestly wouldn't mind it. I just don't see HOW it would work out. How was Ifrit defeated? How was Garuda defeated? Who cleared Dzemael Darkhold?

If your Echo presence affected the past, that's cool and all, but it's still up for debate on how exactly your echo affects things in the "normal" game world. Some quests show some sort of change or at least memory insertion while others play out as if you were never there.

SE rarely messes up on two things: Storylines and Music. If they go the Inception route, I would hope they have everything accounted for.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I know people aren't too keen on this theory, but I honestly wouldn't mind it. I just don't see HOW it would work out. How was Ifrit defeated? How was Garuda defeated? Who cleared Dzemael Darkhold?

If your Echo presence affected the past, that's cool and all, but it's still up for debate on how exactly your echo affects things in the "normal" game world. Some quests show some sort of change or at least memory insertion while others play out as if you were never there.

SE rarely messes up on two things: Storylines and Music. If they go the Inception route, I would hope they have everything accounted for.

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storyline say you can only see what happen not change it so the inception route can't work. Not if you reliving your life that you forgot in a ECHO of someone else hmm which still wont make sense.

Theory that seems to be the best floating around is the black wolf ends up coming to his senses on how batshit crazy the white raven is and allies with you to stop him.

This is all a dream, we're going to wake up post-apocalypse into the new formed world. Which is why we have Free Companies, instead of being enlisted in one of the 3 main companies, which you were never actually part of anyways (which, besides, your influence may be appreciated by the leaders in your dream, but its They who are actually shaping the changes to the world and Cid, we arent doing anything to actually alter the world) and the two Legatsus, could be wiped out with Dalamud, so there goes that tie in with the Empire, ushering in new villians who dont know who we are and vice versa.

Yeah..grasping here.

I apologize for necro-bumping this, but I was rewatching the cutscene for The Nightmare again now that it's in our Unending Journey...

If you watch closely at the bodies on the ground, I saw Y'shtola and Merelywb among the fallen. Anyone able to help me analyze a bit?

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I apologize for necro-bumping this, but I was rewatching the cutscene for The Nightmare again now that it's in our Unending Journey...

If you watch closely at the bodies on the ground, I saw Y'shtola and Merelywb among the fallen. Anyone able to help me analyze a bit?

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Did you start with LL main story and/or GC? When I was doing the first new GC quest last night Y'shtola was the trigger NPC to more or less finish off the quest chain. I imagine the other Archons would do the same for the other nations. I haven't seen the nightmare scene from the perspective of an Ul'dahn or Gridanian player, so I don't know if they show their respective Archons/Leaders instead. But your nation/GC choice seems to make the most sense to me why they are shown.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

Theory that seems to be the best floating around is the black wolf ends up coming to his senses on how batshit crazy the white raven is and allies with you to stop him.

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It remains to be seen, but during the first new GC quest there is some evidence to support this, or at least show that he has a different agenda than van Darnus and isn't going to support the genocide he's trying to bring.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Did you start with LL main story and/or GC? When I was doing the first new GC quest last night Y'shtola was the trigger NPC to more or less finish off the quest chain. I imagine the other Archons would do the same for the other nations. I haven't seen the nightmare scene from the perspective of an Ul'dahn or Gridanian player, so I don't know if they show their respective Archons/Leaders instead. But your nation/GC choice seems to make the most sense to me why they are shown.


It remains to be seen, but during the first new GC quest there is some evidence to support this, or at least show that he has a different agenda than van Darnus and isn't going to support the genocide he's trying to bring.

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Nah, proud Immortal Flame here. And I checked the other Nightmare CS's for the other nations (since they all seemed to be unlocked) and I didn't notice any changes in the dead NPCs.

I'm expecting Gaius to help or at least indirectly support us in the fight against Nael.