How to Make 24 Man Savage

The devs once said they would are hesitant to make harder versions of 24 man savage because "no one would beat it" or something to that effect, well i was pondering this one day and i think i came up with some basic changes that would make it more viable and accessible to everyone and still give us harder optional 24 man content.

The crux of the problem is that it takes too long and there is too many hard fights in a row so i would recommend the following changes:

1.When you beat each boss a key item is given to the player to perm. unlock the teleporter so players will unlock the next section of the raid permanently. This will allow players to progress on each run of mobs before each boss and prog on each boss individually when re-entering the instance. Of course all 24 players would need to have the key item.

2.Teleporter for final boss will unlock before you fight them, allowing players to skip ahead to prog on final boss everytime they enter.

3. The quality of chests/loot will be dependent on how many treasure finder stacks or w/e that is granted to player for beating each section/boss. This will reward players for being good at the raid and beating everything once ​mastered instead of progging individually.

These changes will make it much more viable to do a savage 24 man raid tier and prog on each boss individually similarly to doing 8 man savage, however this will include the entire dungeon and reward players for doing everything in one run once mastered making it a different experience than just doing a series of trials since the word "Trash mob" might not exist for something like 24 man.

There is not enough content in game that can actually be considered a raid,even the so called raids are just rebranded trials. I think something like 24 man savage would fill that missing niche and offer challenging gauntlets to master for each boss that include the lead up to the boss and the boss itself.

Thank you for reading.

Considering how much goes wrong in your average 8-man savage raid team, I don't even want to begin contemplating the amount of cat herding that would be required to succeed on this front. It isn't even a matter of content being too hard; it probably wouldn't be. The true challenge lies in assembling (and keeping assembled) enough sufficiently competent people to see to the task at hand. There is a reason 40 (and later 25) man raiding on WoW saw very little in the way of investment from players.

This idea honestly isn't far from how raids worked back in the coil days. Your progress passed the "trash" was remembered for the week - but with the difference that only 1 person needed the checkpoint and then could act as a skip for the rest of their raid buddies.

Anyways, it seems viable enough, but I'd honestly rather see savage 4 player content. The biggest hurdle of doing 8 person hard content is organizing, and IMO that's where 24 would become especially annoying and troublesome. Especially outside of new content patches.

4 person would be much easier to organize and prone to far less disruption because one person had net issues or wife/gf aggro or some other issue.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

This idea honestly isn't far from how raids worked back in the coil days. Your progress passed the "trash" was remembered for the week - but with the difference that only 1 person needed the checkpoint and then could act as a skip for the rest of their raid buddies.

Anyways, it seems viable enough, but I'd honestly rather see savage 4 player content. The biggest hurdle of doing 8 person hard content is organizing, and IMO that's where 24 would become especially annoying and troublesome. Especially outside of new content patches.

4 person would be much easier to organize and prone to far less disruption because one person had net issues or wife/gf aggro or some other issue.

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Players have asked for harder 4 man content and yoshi p basically said it was just devolve into healers spamming more and thats about it.

Better to ask for 8 man savage versions of 4 man content.

If they can make a savage mode of Delubrum Reginae, I cannot see why they won't do it for other raids. Just gotta make a few tweaks.

1. Keep it as 24-man, don't bumping it up to 48-man.

2. No need for extra encounters, other than maybe an extra phase for the final boss.

3. Everyone dying doesn't boot you out of the instance, forcing you to restart. You still have the dungeon timer, but you can keep attempting a boss if you wipe until time runs out.

4. No loot. Instead the final boss gives everyone a couple tokens that you can obtain once a week that you can trade for 8-man Savage ilvl equivalent items. That way if you prefer one size of content, you're not forced to do the other for a better item level.

5. Final boss could also drop a minion or 2-3 mounts everyone can roll on. If you don't win a mount, you cannot roll again that week. That would mean a 24-man static will take 8-12 weeks to all obtain mounts, which seems fair.

Making alliance raids feel as redundant as non-savage normal raids seems like a bad idea to me.

Please, no. The problem with challenging content with a high number of people is not the content itself - it's the logistical nightmare of getting 24 competent players, who are more often than not adults with reponsibilities, online at the same time, on a regular basis. 8 people is manageable. 24 is not. You would end up spending a lot more time on PF queue, or in case of a static, having to call off raid nights because someone couldn't show up. Or keep players benched, which is not fun at all.

FFXIV needing only 8 people to do the hardest tier of content is a blessing. Don't squander it.

Well first they should create real dungeons and real raids.

Dungeons = one way ride thru a guard railed theme park
Raids (cough) = A circle you teleport to

Pve in this game is like WoW reduced to its bare skeleton.

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Originally Posted by HemlockEvergreen

Please, no. The problem with challenging content with a high number of people is not the content itself - it's the logistical nightmare of getting 24 competent players, who are more often than not adults with reponsibilities, online at the same time, on a regular basis. 8 people is manageable. 24 is not. You would end up spending a lot more time on PF queue, or in case of a static, having to call off raid nights because someone couldn't show up. Or keep players benched, which is not fun at all.

FFXIV needing only 8 people to do the hardest tier of content is a blessing. Don't squander it.

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I mean they've had good luck with Baldesion Arsenal and Delubrum Reginae savage. Progging DRS was some of the most fun I had in ShB postgame content. Sure, it's perhaps closer to EX difficulty on a per fight basis (perhaps thr final two fights aside), but it's still rather challenging. Also it's with 48 people than just 24.
So yeah, I think there's an audience for hard versions of alliance raids.

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Originally Posted by Deliciou5

Players have asked for harder 4 man content and yoshi p basically said it was just devolve into healers spamming more and thats about it.

Better to ask for 8 man savage versions of 4 man content.

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I mean, sure. And they've said 24 person savage content wouldn't be a good idea for this or that reason, and they've said they can't add a bunch of things that mod developers then turn around and add for them, and so on...

But. All the same. Asking for more 8 person savage content isn't particularly of interest to me. It'd just have all the scheduling and organization issues that current savage has and would mean I couldn't play it except on others' schedules, as is current.

So for me personally, I'll keep asking for hard 4 person content. Other MMOs have done it, it's not anywhere near impossible as SE might like to believe. You can keep asking for savage 24 person content for your reasons...

And more than likely, SE will ignore us both xD

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Well first they should create real dungeons and real raids.

Dungeons = one way ride thru a guard railed theme park
Raids (cough) = A circle you teleport to

Pve in this game is like WoW reduced to its bare skeleton.

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Raids being "a circle you teleport to" is a good thing. One of the worst parts of raiding in WoW was wipe recovery, where you had to waste 5 minutes per wipe running back to the boss, or leave a battle ress on a healer and then wait 5 minutes to re-engage because someone accidentally released and was running back to the boss.

Some of you did not prog on WoW and it shows.

I don't know about savage 24 man raids, but something of that size that is more difficult than the current 24 mans would be nice. Like someone said, perhaps extreme difficulty would be a good fit.

I would also like to see harder 4 man content, whatever that might look like. Running higher floors of PotD with friends is a fond memory of mine, but even that wasn't quite what we were looking for. We had a blast doing 3-4 man runs of unsynced undersized EX and savages and seeing if we could beat them. Something like that but actually designed for 4 players would be welcome.

24 is too many people. There's a reason over the years larger format raids have been scaled down and more focused to 8 player groups in many MMO's. and some even scaled down to 4. 24-48 player raids are simply not enjoyable. They are a pain to organize, the fights look chaotic and balancing them is a nightmare. You can't make them too punishing because its impossible for someone not to make a mistake when there are 24 players and if its not punishing enough you have 24 players basically zerging a boss....which is essentially FFXIV 24 man raids lol.