Afk'ing in dungeons is made way, way too easy

You can't kick someone afk until 5 minutes have passed. Majority of dungeons, you'll have killed a boss by then. You also can't kick someone afk while loot is being rolled out. That means you add another 5 minutes to the wait time. With the average duration of a dungeon, even 3-man, this means that you're basically going to have to afk yourself for up to 5 minutes if you ever want to kick someone who's afk.

What. The. Heck. :confused:

I know this game is infested with toxic casualism in its design, but make it slightly harder to abuse others, will you?

I mean, the question is, how often do you run into this problem ?

Me personally, have yet to see someone straight up going AFK for longer than a minute.

I have a slight suspicion that these low posts, almost "new" accounts with very few posts on the forum, are posting a lot of "muh problems" out of nothing and nowhere crafted around very very very "rare" and weird claims that never occured to me in any way shape or form for more than 7 years of gameplay in this game. Feels like concern trolling on things that have a 0.0001% chance of ever happening in the game.

Feels very trollish.

I've never seen anyone "afking" in plain dungeons like this poster pretends to be, or at least without warning the group the person has to.

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Originally Posted by Escalon

I mean, the question is, how often do you run into this problem ?

Me personally, have yet to see someone straight up going AFK for longer than a minute.

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I don't see how the frequency of it happening has anything to do with this massive design flaw. The fact that it can and does happen, no matter how often, is a problem. At least in Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium, you can kick afk'ers after waiting for combat and cutscenes to drop, since there's no loot.

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Originally Posted by Katt_Felista

I have a slight suspicion that these low posts, almost "new" accounts with very few posts on the forum, are posting a lot of "muh problems" out of nothing and nowhere crafted around very very very "rare" and weird claims that never occured to me in any way shape or form for more than 7 years of gameplay in this game. Feels like concern trolling on things that have a 0.0001% chance of ever happening in the game.

Feels very trollish.

I've never seen anyone "afking" in plain dungeons like this poster pretends to be, or at least without warning the group the person has to.

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Yet here you are, on a 8.5 years old account with two level 50s, 35 posts, calling someone with a 2.5 year old account a troll.

It just happened, I had to ask the tank to stop pulling before the second boss, and we had to wait another 3.5 minutes before we were allowed to kick the griefer. And that, unfortunately, isn't even the first time in Endwalker, let alone during my time playing the game. Almost like people grasp at the opportunity presented to them.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I don't see how the frequency of it happening has anything to do with this massive design flaw. The fact that it can and does happen, no matter how often, is a problem. At least in Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium, you can kick afk'ers after waiting for combat and cutscenes to drop, since there's no loot.

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Except mmo game companies don't operate on the "one time too many" aspect unless it's a game-breaking issue. Just pretend you're face to face with YoshiP here: how do you explain to him, without a measure of proven metrics that the AFKs you encounter are not only numerous (which you think doesn't have anything to do with the design flaw) but they're also done on purpose maliciously?

Not sure this happens often enough to warrant SE looking at this. Without some measures in place, it could lead to kick abuse. Anyway, if someone is intentionally doing this, and there is proof, that's what a report is for.

Additionally, one may want to remove potential 'profanity' from an OP.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I don't see how the frequency of it happening has anything to do with this massive design flaw. The fact that it can and does happen, no matter how often, is a problem. At least in Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium, you can kick afk'ers after waiting for combat and cutscenes to drop, since there's no loot.

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Frequency is the most important aspect, your personal feelings and your annoyance with it is not important, since you are just 1 of 900k+ players, a game, especially an MMO cannot bent its knee to prioritize an individuals need over the majority, even if 9000 people would complain, its still just 1%. Also, the system was put in the game for a reason, no matter if you like it or not, because lets be honest, people would never abuse it right ? the 5 minute rule is there as a fail safe when something happens in real life.

If people afk 60 times out of 100 runs, than that is an actual issue since it impacts the gameplay of the majority of players severely.
If people afk 3 times out of 100 runs, its not an issue and can be literally waved off as just : happens.

And if people AFK less than 1 time out of 1000 runs, as appears to be the case...

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Except mmo game companies don't operate on the "one time too many" aspect unless it's a game-breaking issue. Just pretend you're face to face with YoshiP here: how do you explain to him, without a measure of proven metrics that the AFKs you encounter are not only numerous (which you think doesn't have anything to do with the design flaw) but they're also done on purpose maliciously?

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Originally Posted by Escalon

Frequency is the most important aspect, your personal feelings and your annoyance with it is not important, since you are just 1 of 900k+ players, a game, especially an MMO cannot bent its knee to prioritize an individuals need over the majority, even if 9000 people would complain, its still just 1%. Also, the system was put in the game for a reason, no matter if you like it or not, because lets be honest, people would never abuse it right ? the 5 minute rule is there as a fail safe when something happens in real life.

If people afk 60 times out of 100 runs, than that is an actual issue since it impacts the gameplay of the majority of players severely.
If people afk 3 times out of 100 runs, its not an issue and can be literally waved off as just : happens.

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I understand, and for all I know this person's house blew up just as they accepted the invite, but the fact of the matter is that nothing but our dignity is stopping you or I from abusing this for some free experience with - without proof of it being otherwise - no repercussions. I could do the exact same thing right now, it would be far more convenient experience than actually contributing as I will be able to spend my time efficiently on something else, and since the frequency of it happening changes by naught I'd get away with it unless a report actually does something which I wouldn't know until I tried.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Not sure this happens often enough to warrant SE looking at this. Without some measures in place, it could lead to kick abuse. Anyway, if someone is intentionally doing this, and there is proof, that's what a report is for.

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When I don't get to know whether or not this actually leads to actions taken against them (assuming it's someone doing it intentionally, and more frequently), this doesn't exactly satisfy me. Besides, why give them the option if it's not allowed?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Additionally, one may want to remove potential 'profanity' from an OP.

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Figured why not since the forums allow it for some reason, but fair enough, removing it.

I've noticed afking at the start a bit more lately, but it's still a small minority at the moment. The only truly annoying part is when they don't say anything.

Would it take much for SE to make it say 2-3 minutes or perhaps no restriction instead? If the solution is also minor, it wouldn't be a big deal to implement. SE makes all kinds of fixes.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I don't see how the frequency of it happening has anything to do with this massive design flaw. The fact that it can and does happen, no matter how often, is a problem. At least in Castrum Meridianum and The Praetorium, you can kick afk'ers after waiting for combat and cutscenes to drop, since there's no loot.

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The thing is, the 5 minute period at the start if the duty, plus the 5 minute loot timers that prevent people being kicked, serve a purpose.

You remove them, and you have a new 'design flaw', people getting unfairly kicked, when someone queues into a dungeon with someone they don't like or for stupid reasons like names, classes or races, and people getting kicked when rhe chest opens and rare loot is revealed.

You can't just say one instance of x means y is a design flaw, if the absence of y would cause z. This is why frequency and impact are important, what is more likely or more damaging, x or z?

It is not bad design. It is designing with foresight from the knowledge of hindsight. I don't think I need to go in the details, but if anyone has played many MMOs over the years, knows that most drama comes from shady loot acquisition. In PSU, people would get rapidly kicked when a rare mat/weapon/board would drop.

You simply communicate with others to withhold opening loot so you can kick the offender trying to AFK his or her way through the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

Yet here you are, on a 8.5 years old account with two level 50s, 35 posts, calling someone with a 2.5 year old account a troll.

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That's probably an 8.5 year old alt account. My account on this board is barely 2 years as well, but my main account is 1.0 ancient with 6 lvl80s and 3 lvl90 XD.

Let's face it, most people have alt accounts(or use their main accounts but don't have their characters set to their main character) here because of wanting to not be 'lodestone tracked'. :P

...and SE should probably add more privacy options to the lodestone with that said.

I think that's just endemic of the hurry hurry rush mentality. If someone isn't there for the first boss with the party, don't loot and then vote dismiss. It's the party's impatience that is causing them problems. The means to fix their problem are there.