Not a technical issue necessarily, but would like a decision revoked

I don't know where to post this otherwise so here goes. I made a ticket about this in-game as well but placed it under bug reports since I can't find an appropriate option. I'll copy & paste:

Not a technical issue, but I genuinely don't know where else to ask. I joined a party for Phoinix Savage today (P3S as people call it, the third boss of Pandaemonium) before clearing the first two again. It asked me if I was okay with forfeiting looting rights. To avoid being rude by leaving the party I accepted, thinking it'd only be for the third boss. Instead, it revoked my looting rights for the first two bosses. I humbly ask to have my looting rights restored for the first two bosses this week. If revoking them from the third boss is the result (we did not end up clearing the boss), then so be it, as that's what I thought I accepted, but I had no idea it'd revoke looting rights from the first two. :(

■Date & Time: 11/01/2022, 1:30 P.M. ST (Chaos datacenter), 2:30ish P.M. LT
■World name: Louisoix
■Character name: Lanaya Visili
■Monster name: Phoinix (Savage)
■In-game time: 1:30 P.M. ST (Chaos datacenter), 2:30 P.M. LT
■Platform: Windows
■Client Language: English

■Steps:
1. Joined a group through party finder for P3S
2. Had to revoke looting rights as I hadn't cleared P1S or P2S yet this week, accepted it not knowing it'd revoke looting rights for P1S and P2S rather than P3S
3. Locked from loot for P1S and P2S, rather than P3S as I thought I would be

The way the looting process works is spelled out in every Savage patch change notes that has ever been released.

No issue at all, its already been a very long time like this, also in last expansions.

This dialogue was added in Patch 4.3 — the message is quite clear that, by skipping ahead, you forfeit all rights to prior floor loot. Before, it wasn’t exactly clear unless you just knew how the loot system worked, since the gear forfeit is actually not explicitly mentioned in the Savage patch notes; just gear distribution per floor and coffer loot rules.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/13...png?1527583670

This isn’t a technical issue, and the game warned you ahead of time: The preceding duty will be skipped and its weekly reward lost.

Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ccabfaff09eeee

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Originally Posted by Puss_Kat

The way the looting process works is spelled out in every Savage patch change notes that has ever been released.

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I just went to look back at the patch notes of the tier release but can't actually find this mentioned. Even if it were there though, that doesn't stop people from reading past it by accident. It did give me a warning in-game, but the way I read that I thought it would lock me from loot for P3S rather than the bosses prior. This warning only showed once we signed for the duty, giving me 45 seconds to read a fair amount of text, so I may have misread, as I first even assumed it was because the leader had not signed for duty incomplete when starting the duty. After asking, they mentioned that it'd lock me from loot, which lead me to assume that it'd be only for that boss, at which point I accepted that that would be the outcome.

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Originally Posted by DarkArvan

No issue at all, its already been a very long time like this, also in last expansions.

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It is for me, though. Not a technical issue, no, I mentioned that, but I can't find the appropriate place to post this. Have to try something, right? And while I well believe it's been in the game for a long time, that doesn't mean I have been. The only time I've done Savage prior was during the start of Shadowbringers but I never had a reason to skip any bosses early in the week back then, so I avoided it through pure coincidence.

You openly admitted to seeing the text which warned you about what was about to take place. You chose to forfeit which precludes you from receiving prior rewards. Seeking a reversal of decision when you were informed prior with a prompt you had to select BEFORE proceeding should not be granted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

This dialogue was added in Patch 4.3 — the message is quite clear that, by skipping ahead, you forfeit all rights to prior floor loot. Before, it wasn’t exactly clear unless you just knew how the loot system worked, since the gear forfeit is actually not explicitly mentioned in the Savage patch notes; just gear distribution per floor and coffer loot rules.

https://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/13...png?1527583670

This isn’t a technical issue, and the game warned you ahead of time: The preceding duty will be skipped and its weekly reward lost.

Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ccabfaff09eeee

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You are correct, looking at that picture it's quite clear, reading it without any pressure or the like. I don't think I read the first part entirely, only the part after pressing accept, as it covered part of the first part, which lead me to believe (and accept) that I'd skip loot from that boss specifically.

I know it's not a technical issue, I just have no idea where to go otherwise for a (chance at) assistance, and I noticed some posts here get delegated to a different subsection of the forums with a (seemingly) different type of support.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I just went to look back at the patch notes of the tier release but can't actually find this mentioned. Even if it were there though, that doesn't stop people from reading past it by accident. It did give me a warning in-game, but the way I read that I thought it would lock me from loot for P3S rather than the bosses prior. This warning only showed once we signed for the duty, giving me 45 seconds to read a fair amount of text, so I may have misread, as I first even assumed it was because the leader had not signed for duty incomplete when starting the duty. After asking, they mentioned that it'd lock me from loot, which lead me to assume that it'd be only for that boss, at which point I accepted that that would be the outcome.

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Gear/reward forfeit isn’t mentioned in the Patch Notes. However, the game itself warns you in a very short, simple message. The most important part is even highlighted for emphasis. 45 seconds is more than enough time to read what the game presented you. Speed-reading through it or just assuming the text was in regards to something else isn’t a valid reason to ask for this rule to be revoked with regards to your situation. I’m sorry, but you are entirely at fault here; not the game.

Best you can do is carry on, and learn from this experience.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

You are correct, looking at that picture it's quite clear, reading it without any pressure or the like. I don't think I read the first part entirely, only the part after pressing accept, as it covered part of the first part, which lead me to believe (and accept) that I'd skip loot from that boss specifically.

I know it's not a technical issue, I just have no idea where to go otherwise for a (chance at) assistance, and I noticed some posts here get delegated to a different subsection of the forums with a (seemingly) different type of support.

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There is no assistance to be granted with regards to this. The game is very clear in its warning. You chose to either not read it carefully enough, or skimmed/skipped through it entirely. There’s plenty of time before pressing Commence to read and understand what the game is telling you—the 45 second timer is not that huge of a pressure. If you were unsure, you could have always withdrew (at no penalty to yourself since you were in a PF and wouldn’t incur a strike towards the 30 minute withdraw penalty), and asked for clarification. Skimming it is no one else’s fault but your own. Not trying to be rude here, but this is just the fact of the matter.

Accept the consequence, and learn from it going forward.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Gear/reward forfeit isn’t mentioned in the Patch Notes. However, the game itself warns you in a very short, simple message. The most important part is even highlighted for emphasis. 45 seconds is more than enough time to read what the game presented you. Speed-reading through it or just assuming the text was in regards to something else isn’t a valid reason to ask for this rule to be revoked with regards to your situation. I’m sorry, but you are entirely at fault here; not the game.

Best you can do is carry on, and learn from this experience.

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I don't blame the game, other than for having this system in the first place (I don't see the need for it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have read it properly). However, this mentality bugs me. Should people be punished so severely with no recourse if they simply didn't read something the proper way? I didn't make a mistake while doing heart surgery, I made a mistake when signing up for a duty in a videogame.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I don't blame the game, other than for having this system in the first place (I don't see the need for it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have read it properly). However, this mentality bugs me. Should people be punished so severely with no recourse if they simply didn't read something the proper way? I didn't make a mistake while doing heart surgery, I made a mistake when signing up for a duty in a videogame.

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Yes, there should be consequences for failure to read game warnings properly—warnings the developers put in there specifically to prevent what happened to you after listening to complaints that the reward forfeit was not clear enough to those unsavvy with Savage loot rules (i.e., new raiders). They implemented measures to prevent this—you chose to ignore them/skim them/not read and understand them properly. That falls back on no one but yourself.

It’s one weekly reward for one week. Not really game-breaking since this tier will be around for the next 6 months. At most, you will be behind one week with regards to gear due to the loss of a page from P1S and P2S. Coffers wouldn’t be guaranteed since you are at the mercy of RNGesus for them when in a party of 7 other people and no Lootmaster to distribute loot, so they cannot be considered here.

You’re kind of coming off here as if this is some earth-shattering horror when it’s simply you failed to read the warning, and now you have to learn to accept and deal with the consequence of it. Video games shouldn’t be free of consequences, either.



As an aside, the system itself exists to prolong longevity of the content. Nothing more, nothing less. The floors themselves have to be completed in order anyways were you to queue for the solo. The only reason you could skip ahead to P3S was because the PF leader had already cleared P1S and P2S. If they hadn’t, then they wouldn’t be able to queue into P3S.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Yes, there should be consequences for failure to read game warnings properly—warnings the developers put in there specifically to prevent what happened to you after listening to complaints that the reward forfeit was not clear enough to those unsavvy with Savage loot rules (i.e., new raiders). The implemented measure to prevent this—you chose to ignore them/skim them/not read and understand them properly. That falls back on no one but yourself.

It’s one weekly reward for one week. Not really game-breaking since this tier will be around for the next 6 months. You’re kind of coming off here as if this is some earth-shattering horror when it’s simply you failed to read the warning, and now you have to learn to accept and deal with the consequence of it. Video games shouldn’t be free of consequences, either.

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My point is exactly that it ISN'T a earth-shattering game-breaking thing, which is why it seems so steep to want it to be punished so severely. I agree that the mistake is mine, I should've just read it properly and in its entirety. Far as I know, most games have some way to assist when the player/customer makes a stupid mistake (e.g. deleting an item, despite there being a warning). We're human, after all. I certainly am, all things considered. I just hope(d) that the same would be here, and it doesn't hurt trying. :(

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

My point is exactly that it ISN'T a earth-shattering game-breaking thing, which is why it seems so steep to want it to be punished so severely. I agree that the mistake is mine, I should've just read it properly and in its entirety. Far as I know, most games have some way to assist when the player/customer makes a stupid mistake (e.g. deleting an item, despite there being a warning). We're human, after all. I certainly am, all things considered. I just hope(d) that the same would be here, and it doesn't hurt trying. :(

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And my point is that it really isn’t that severe of a punishment when this gear will be available for the next 6 months. You have plenty of time to get it. You are only behind by one week, and only for the first two floors.

Human though we may be, there is no recourse for this because you made a mistake, and measures are in place to prevent said mistake. The only kind of recourse that could be given is your one-time retrieval of an item—but you technically didn’t lose one. At least, not within the confines that that policy is used for. You never cleared P1S or P2S, so you didn’t lose a page for the GMs to retrieve because you never had one to begin with. You merely skipped ahead despite the game warning you that rewards would be forfeited if you did.

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Originally Posted by Michieltjuhh

I don't blame the game, other than for having this system in the first place (I don't see the need for it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't have read it properly).

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The reason for the loot lockouts is to avoid people gaming the system to gear up for BiS too quickly. It's the entire function of how the savage gear grind works. I admittedly dislike it as well, because it makes it hard to help friends with savage and also still raid with a static, unless you maintain a separate raid-alt, but I've yet to see anyone come up with an alternative that doesn't get gamed to gear up too quickly.

If your clear status didn't affect everyone else's loot, then you could have a group of eight people each with an alt, and run the duty with one person's "real" character and seven alts, let that real character roll on everything, then that person swapped to their alt and another swapped to their "real" character and you did it again and let them roll on everything, etc. You'd instantly be able to gear an entire static up with every possible drop they could get per floor in a given week. So instead, if 1-4 people have already cleared, you get only 1 chest, and if 5+ people have cleared, you get none.

And it is meant that you do the floors in order each week. You can skip past earlier floors if the party lead has already cleared them that week -- thus meaning if your static only cares about P3S and P4S for gear any longer, you only need one person to clear P1S and P2S for the week so that they can queue the group into P3S -- but it is meant to be a "skipping this" mechanic, not a "going ahead and then coming back later" one.

Yeah, it sucks that you didn't realize this would happen, but it's a long-established fact of how savage works in this game. It's unfortunate, but look at it as a learning experience; missing your pages and loot from P1S and P2S for one week isn't the end of the world.