Will BLM ever get a party buff?

I'm leveling Black Mage now since the Summoner changes made me feel like I need a different, more in-depth sorta caster class to play with, and at level 62 now I still feel a little wanting for something extra. I think that mostly stems from the fact I seem to only have GCDs outside of a few personal buffs like Leylines and Sharpcast, and no party buff to grant to others.

Which is odd since I thought BLM was historically always the offensive buff guy in the Final Fantasy series? I mean, I've not played EVERY game in the series, but in FF1, the only time when my party Black Mage didn't have the Boost spell was when I hadn't gotten to a town with it yet, and in FF9 I adored Vivi's elemental combos with Steiner. Both would be valid options for a 15-20s buff like most DPS seem to carry but-...

For some reason BLM is the 'selfish' DPS class that only contributes big damage to the group. Why is that? It has to be an intentional design choice given how long it's been in the game, but I can't imagine why this job, of all things, is the only one that lacks any sort of party utility. Especially given both the other casters get Raise somehow! (Even Blue Mage sorta does, and that's not even a full fledged job!)

When will Square let me catch my Dark Knight's sword on fire, and/or fill the Dragoon with even more bloodlust?

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Originally Posted by Aztectornado

I'm leveling Black Mage now since the Summoner changes made me feel like I need a different, more in-depth sorta caster class to play with, and at level 62 now I still feel a little wanting for something extra. I think that mostly stems from the fact I seem to only have GCDs outside of a few personal buffs like Leylines and Sharpcast, and no party buff to grant to others.

Which is odd since I thought BLM was historically always the offensive buff guy in the Final Fantasy series? I mean, I've not played EVERY game in the series, but in FF1, the only time when my party Black Mage didn't have the Boost spell was when I hadn't gotten to a town with it yet, and in FF9 I adored Vivi's elemental combos with Steiner. Both would be valid options for a 15-20s buff like most DPS seem to carry but-...

For some reason BLM is the 'selfish' DPS class that only contributes big damage to the group. Why is that? It has to be an intentional design choice given how long it's been in the game, but I can't imagine why this job, of all things, is the only one that lacks any sort of party utility. Especially given both the other casters get Raise somehow! (Even Blue Mage sorta does, and that's not even a full fledged job!)

When will Square let me catch my Dark Knight's sword on fire, and/or fill the Dragoon with even more bloodlust?

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BLM has pretty much always just been the big exploder in the series. I think in the original they had haste and some offensive support magic, but as more jobs grew in following titles it became more of just a nuker while things like Time Mage took on a more support role. It's just the design philosophy of the game. Every dps role has synergy jobs and selfish jobs. Some people like being the big dog, and some people like being a team player. The end result (in a perfect world) is the same, as rDPS is supposed to be competitive among all jobs regardless of if they are a buffer or a selfish job. If BLM had a lot of its rDPS shifted to party buffs, then caster wouldn't really have a selfish job anymore.

I mean apoc use to be a thing

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Originally Posted by Mysticunicycle

BLM has pretty much always just been the big exploder in the series. I think in the original they had haste and some offensive support magic, but as more jobs grew in following titles it became more of just a nuker while things like Time Mage took on a more support role. It's just the design philosophy of the game. Every dps role has synergy jobs and selfish jobs. Some people like being the big dog, and some people like being a team player. The end result (in a perfect world) is the same, as rDPS is supposed to be competitive among all jobs regardless of if they are a buffer or a selfish job. If BLM had a lot of its rDPS shifted to party buffs, then caster wouldn't really have a selfish job anymore.

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That's fair, BLM is also the offensive powerhouse so far as magic goes in the series, but whenever I stop and think "who has the offensive buffs?" in relation to FF, I've personally never seen it on anything but Black Mage. Considering how limited my experience is though, I guess that's unsurprising since I've never even heard of a time mage before this moment!

And I'm not even particularly asking for its seat as top dog of explosions to go away, or god forbid it should get raise and go into necromancy, only that it'd be nice if I had even a singular utility Ability to cast for the party, or even a debuff similar to Scholar. There's plenty of classes that lean further into utility than others, but it's odd to me that there's still only one that doesn't have even one party utility.

Or wait, does Ninja not have one too? Machinist, Ninja, Warrior, and Samurai are about the only jobs I haven't spent a whole lot of time looking at or unlocking. It occurs to me I might be completely uneducated in this claim.

If BLM ever got more party utility, I'd like to see it lean more into its "metamagic mastery" identity by getting back Manashift or Apocatastasis, or even a passive trait that improves Addle somehow.

If anything, BLM should get more Nukes to shoot off. But if we go for Squeenix usual design choices, the best were getting is just filler traits and charges for already existing stuff.

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Originally Posted by Aztectornado

That's fair, BLM is also the offensive powerhouse so far as magic goes in the series, but whenever I stop and think "who has the offensive buffs?" in relation to FF, I've personally never seen it on anything but Black Mage. Considering how limited my experience is though, I guess that's unsurprising since I've never even heard of a time mage before this moment!

And I'm not even particularly asking for its seat as top dog of explosions to go away, or god forbid it should get raise and go into necromancy, only that it'd be nice if I had even a singular utility Ability to cast for the party, or even a debuff similar to Scholar. There's plenty of classes that lean further into utility than others, but it's odd to me that there's still only one that doesn't have even one party utility.

Or wait, does Ninja not have one too? Machinist, Ninja, Warrior, and Samurai are about the only jobs I haven't spent a whole lot of time looking at or unlocking. It occurs to me I might be completely uneducated in this claim.

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Ninja is a buff job with trick attack. Samurai, Black Mage, and Machinist all have no party buffs apart from their respective role actions. They are the "selfish" jobs that have higher personal damage but don't gain any damage through buffing other party members.

I think the idea of pure dps and gradients of support dps is fine, I just think the balance in terms of damage is a bit funky right now. Personally, I like black mage being just about blowing enemies up and would hate to see that philosophy go.

Probably not. Addle's already one of the best role actions as it is, so I don't see them feeling a need to give BLM more, especially given it's got a strong fanbase who really just want to throw fire.

I feel that BLM is very well realized with its party contribution at the expense of having more dps... However, I would welcome a lot more personal utiity. Like another charge from Manaward, or a new 3-minute self cleanse from a stack of vulnerabiity.

It would be cool if Leylines were some sort of beacon that would leave aetherial residue so you could always Between the Lines back to its position until you would set a new one.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I feel that BLM is very well realized with its party contribution at the expense of having more dps... However, I would welcome a lot more personal utiity. Like another charge from Manaward, or a new 3-minute self cleanse from a stack of vulnerabiity.

It would be cool if Leylines were some sort of beacon that would leave aetherial residue so you could always Between the Lines back to its position until you would set a new one.

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What more dps?
at this point every job should have party utility, including NIN, DRG, BLM and SAM if they are gonna keep the dps-utility system so unbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

I feel that BLM is very well realized with its party contribution at the expense of having more dps... However, I would welcome a lot more personal utiity. Like another charge from Manaward, or a new 3-minute self cleanse from a stack of vulnerabiity.

It would be cool if Leylines were some sort of beacon that would leave aetherial residue so you could always Between the Lines back to its position until you would set a new one.

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Another charge on Manaward would be great. I'd like it if they made it so Aetherial Manipulation (the roller skates power) could be used on enemies like Sage's Icarus.

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Originally Posted by Aztectornado

I'm leveling Black Mage now since the Summoner changes made me feel like I need a different, more in-depth sorta caster class to play with, and at level 62 now I still feel a little wanting for something extra. I think that mostly stems from the fact I seem to only have GCDs outside of a few personal buffs like Leylines and Sharpcast, and no party buff to grant to others.

Which is odd since I thought BLM was historically always the offensive buff guy in the Final Fantasy series? I mean, I've not played EVERY game in the series, but in FF1, the only time when my party Black Mage didn't have the Boost spell was when I hadn't gotten to a town with it yet, and in FF9 I adored Vivi's elemental combos with Steiner. Both would be valid options for a 15-20s buff like most DPS seem to carry but-...

For some reason BLM is the 'selfish' DPS class that only contributes big damage to the group. Why is that? It has to be an intentional design choice given how long it's been in the game, but I can't imagine why this job, of all things, is the only one that lacks any sort of party utility. Especially given both the other casters get Raise somehow! (Even Blue Mage sorta does, and that's not even a full fledged job!)

When will Square let me catch my Dark Knight's sword on fire, and/or fill the Dragoon with even more bloodlust?

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As someone who's played every final fantasy, I have to say Black Mages that offer any sort of support are by far the outliers in the series. FFI had Boost, yeah, but that's kind of it. I wouldn't really call Steiner's magic sword a form of Vivi's Support, more just exactly that, a combo attack. Black Mages have had debuffs that could be considered utility like sleep and slow, but those were pretty rarely effective and largely inferior to just blasting enemies with your most powerful spells.

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

I think the idea of pure dps and gradients of support dps is fine, I just think the balance in terms of damage is a bit funky right now. Personally, I like black mage being just about blowing enemies up and would hate to see that philosophy go.

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Well considering RPR and MNK now seems to do same and better damange than BLM, i fear groups will start to deny BLMs access to party groups like they did in Stormblood. Why bring a pure DPS without party buffs and utilities when they can bring RPR who gives party damage buffs, and AOE heal Dot which is strong and has a way better chance of damage uptime considering how much movement there is in the Savage fight. Even double Triple cast and Swiftcast isnt enough for some of the movements needed for max uptime unless utilize procs and such very efficiently. But that could mean having to way using them incase you have to move etc :(

If they do not balance BLM/MNK/RPR/SAM before 6.1, I will not be pleased if i start to see PF start denying me access again when i wanna do things on my own outside my static :(

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Originally Posted by Raikai

It would be cool if Leylines were some sort of beacon that would leave aetherial residue so you could always Between the Lines back to its position until you would set a new one.

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I think BLM should have a teleport forward ability on a short CD. Useable while casting but can’t go through obstacles. Why restrict movement back to a fixed spot. This also eliminates the advantage one player has over another with respect to fight knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Anacrusys

I think BLM should have a teleport forward ability on a short CD. Useable while casting but can’t go through obstacles. Why restrict movement back to a fixed spot. This also eliminates the advantage one player has over another with respect to fight knowledge.

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Hard disagree. What's the point of knowing a fight if every Tom, Dick, and Harry can do the same thing as an experienced player by just winging it?

I was strictly referring to leyline placement as the only spot you can move back to, and how fight knowledge affects it more than any other movement skill in the game. What other job has to move back to an exact spot? Exp. A first time on the boss dancer can dash anywhere like an experienced dancer. A first time on the boss BLM has an extra disadvantage in not knowing where to drop leylines. In sum, fight knowledge affects BLM far more than any other job. Okay, let’s forget about the fight knowledge aspect. Moving on.

The teleport forward would be far superior to between the lines. It would also allow them to remove 1-2 other hot keys (if you guys agree) and replace them with more interesting skills. I’m assuming they added xenoglossy and amplifier because everyone complained about movement. amplifier is a wasted unecesssary hot key they could replace

If you added the teleport, you could remove between the lines, xeno, and amplifier and add two new cool skills. Or at least amplifier if you want to keep xeno. Lastly, it would also be nice if your cast would finish wherever you teleported to. So teleporting mid cast would not interrupt the cast. I know it would work extremely well.

Why would any BLM worth their salt want to trade in Between the Lines for a bog-standard forward teleport when they could just AM to someone that's already in a safe zone, or heaven forbid, just move out of the way with either Triplecast, Swiftcast, Xenoglossy, Thundercloud or Firestarter procs and Umbral Ice Paradox, then zip back to their Leylines?

You're trying to solve a problem that already has multiple solutions.

I forgot about AM that would be another skill to replace. AM is terrible on console, you can easily be dead by the time you target someone with the dpad. So now we could add three totally new skills! and have better mobility with the teleport in any direction than all these other movement skills combined. I’m sure people would like three new interesting and engaging skills without adding more hot keys. I’ll throw this out there maybe high dps melee range skill(s) SMN and RDM both have melee range skills. We now have a teleport to get in or out of melee range.

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Originally Posted by Aztectornado

Will BLM ever get a party buff?

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Probably not, but... why would it need to? Unless you mean that in terms of non-rDPS utility, such as the old Apocatastasis buff, I'd rather BLM just stay the Carry than be dependent upon party performance to do its full rDPS.

Nope, Blm will never get party buff., unless it wants it's dps to drop as low as Smn's atm

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Originally Posted by Mysticunicycle

Ninja is a buff job with trick attack. Samurai, Black Mage, and Machinist all have no party buffs apart from their respective role actions. They are the "selfish" jobs that have higher personal damage but don't gain any damage through buffing other party members.

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I thought Machinist had that one party-wide defense buff?

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Originally Posted by Aztectornado

I thought Machinist had that one party-wide defense buff?

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Tactician/Shield Samba/Troubadour are just a role action in a trench coat. BLM has Addle like every other caster.

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Originally Posted by Anacrusys

I forgot about AM that would be another skill to replace. AM is terrible on console, you can easily be dead by the time you target someone with the dpad. So now we could add three totally new skills! and have better mobility with the teleport in any direction than all these other movement skills combined. I’m sure people would like three new interesting and engaging skills without adding more hot keys. I’ll throw this out there maybe high dps melee range skill(s) SMN and RDM both have melee range skills. We now have a teleport to get in or out of melee range.

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You should probably setup some macros for AM and put them on an "oh shit" crossbar. Assign one button to each party slot, make them muscle memory and then you don't have to worry about trying to target somebody specifically. Make the Dpad the tanks and healers, and the other face buttons the other 3 dps.

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Originally Posted by Anacrusys

I forgot about AM that would be another skill to replace. AM is terrible on console, you can easily be dead by the time you target someone with the dpad. So now we could add three totally new skills! and have better mobility with the teleport in any direction than all these other movement skills combined. I’m sure people would like three new interesting and engaging skills without adding more hot keys. I’ll throw this out there maybe high dps melee range skill(s) SMN and RDM both have melee range skills. We now have a teleport to get in or out of melee range.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

You should probably setup some macros for AM and put them on an "oh shit" crossbar. Assign one button to each party slot, make them muscle memory and then you don't have to worry about trying to target somebody specifically. Make the Dpad the tanks and healers, and the other face buttons the other 3 dps.

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I play controller too, and I have mine setup on a 'submenu' sort of macro. Macro 1 copies its hotbar into 5 for safekeeping, then grabs hotbar 6 and copies it over itself. Hotbar 6 has buttons for all 7 other players, and the macro on that button will spam AM on them 5 times in an attempt to combat lag, then copy the original hotbar back into place. the 8th button is Cancel, and just copies the hotbar back without casting AM.

Macros -

Go to...
/macroicon "Aetherial Manipulation"
/chotbar copy BLM 3 BLM 6
/chotbar copy BLM 5 BLM 3

#2 (replace 2 with 3-8 for other macros)
/ac "Aetherial Manipulation" <2>
/ac "Aetherial Manipulation" <2>
/ac "Aetherial Manipulation" <2>
/ac "Aetherial Manipulation" <2>
/ac "Aetherial Manipulation" <2>
/chotbar copy BLM 6 BLM 3

...Cancel
/chotbar copy BLM 6 BLM 3


I also use something similar for my Astrologian Play and Minor Arcana actions, and even setup a submenu for my class selection hotbar. All the ARR classes (Gladiator, Rogue, Archer,etc) have seperate hotbars that are free real estate for setting up quickswap hotbars like this

High DPS or a substantial party buff. Choose one.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

High DPS or a substantial party buff. Choose one.

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but you can have both if you're monk or reaper and also utility

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

High DPS or a substantial party buff. Choose one.

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meanwhile smn in shb

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Originally Posted by ZiraZ

but you can have both if you're monk or reaper and also utility

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That's why a lot of raiders are confused on why yoshi is considering buffing monk. It's current dps with mantra and brotherhood is a bit much already. If we balancing jobs based on how busy they are then that's fine but by what metric are we basing that on? CPM or how many resources a job has? Like mnks opener is busy and burst is busy, but outside of that, it is simple.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

meanwhile smn in shb

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Tbf they could never balance smn and still can't... I blame the fact that they can't stay with one version of the job. This version will either change in 6.2 or in 7.0, it honestly can't stay the same unless they aren't planning to add anything to it in the next expansion

I hope it never does. I like that my DPS pretty much solely relies on my own execution, and I don't really have to consider fitting certain things into buff windows other than maybe a pot and a manafont for a double despair, or as many xenoglossies as possible. I don't want BLM to become another fit y amount of x into your buff window.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

As someone who's played every final fantasy, I have to say Black Mages that offer any sort of support are by far the outliers in the series. FFI had Boost, yeah, but that's kind of it. I wouldn't really call Steiner's magic sword a form of Vivi's Support, more just exactly that, a combo attack. Black Mages have had debuffs that could be considered utility like sleep and slow, but those were pretty rarely effective and largely inferior to just blasting enemies with your most powerful spells.

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I'm with you there.... I've played all of them and am having a hard time thinking of what dedicated black mages offered support, and the best I could come up with was Lulu's reflex and focus skills. So if anything I could see black mages getting something like focus for the whole party since it would still be a largely selfish skill. It might buff paladin, healers, and ninjas if used at the right time, but unless you're running two casters, that's about it.