NIN feels even more off after the 6.05 changes

With the changes to NIN if 6.05, it really didn't solve any problems and just made the class feel bad while taking away a unique animation.

To start off, Phantom Kamataichi changes are fine. Would I rather them nerf Bunshin damage and make it a 60s CD or buff it and make it a 120s, but the way it is right now is good enough. The real issue is Raiju. Now, instead of combo-ing forked and fleeting, they are separate buttons that add to button bloat and you choose between a singular one of them. The damage got buffed, sure, but the move itself lost a unique property of being a combo action (This would be like them separating Burst Strike and Hypervelocity on GNB, both do the same thing and now you just choose between one or the other). Furthermore, they did not address the fact that the stacks get deleted if you use another weaponskill after Raiton. Why even have a timer on the stack if I have to use it immediately and cannot bank it for use at a more convenient time? This makes no sense whatsoever and is really terrible to play with.

What they should have done is left Forked and Fleeting as a combo action but let us hold onto the charges and use them when we wanted to (as the timer allowed) and that would have been fine. At this point they are two buttons for one purpose. Might as well just combine the animations and just call it Raiju and save me the hotbar space because it makes little sense to have 2 buttons that do the exact same thing.

Now those who say "but one isn't a gap closer anymore so I can use that when I want to stay at max melee range," well, the thing is, if you could bank the charges then you could just use it when it was good to do so anyway so that isn't an issue if they fixed the charge problem. Primal Rend is a forced gap closer on WAR and no one is complaining about that because you can hold the charge until you are ready to use it, unlike how Raiju is currently.

So, in short, Raiju changes suck. Please revert them to being a combo action and let us hold onto charges (given the timer) and not let them get deleted by using other weapon actions. I can hold onto Phantom Kamataichi charge as long as I want and use it when I want, why not the Raiju charges? Please revert this, the skill just feels so lackluster to be broken in two. If you don't want to revert it for whatever reason then just combine the two animations and make it one skill because there is no reason for this to take up two hotbar spaces.

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Originally Posted by TroaRandt

Now those who say "but one isn't a gap closer anymore so I can use that when I want to stay at max melee range," well, the thing is, if you could bank the charges then you could just use it when it was good to do so anyway so that isn't an issue if they fixed the charge problem. Primal Rend is a forced gap closer on WAR and no one is complaining about that because you can hold the charge until you are ready to use it, unlike how Raiju is currently.

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Wouldn't you want to use Raiju near immediately anyway to get it in under TA and all that?

Honestly the changes worked out great for my hotbar (playing on playstation) i can now have everything i need on one hotbar and only need to switch for AoE or to use armor crush/huraijin, or gap close
and why would you want to hold the stacks you should be putting your raitons under trick...the problem we faced was really the double gap closer and potency issues

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Wouldn't you want to use Raiju near immediately anyway to get it in under TA and all that?

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If you could bank the charges then you could have charges ready for when TA came up.

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Originally Posted by Overrated

Honestly the changes worked out great for my hotbar (playing on playstation) i can now have everything i need on one hotbar and only need to switch for AoE or to use armor crush/huraijin, or gap close
and why would you want to hold the stacks you should be putting your raitons under trick...the problem we faced was really the double gap closer and potency issues

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The potency change works out to a 20 - 30 potency increase in best conditions. So it isn't like the dps got a huge boost. Raitons should be under trick, but you get a nijutsu ever 20s so you would be able to bank charges of Raiju to use during TA and still have both charges of ninjutsu up for TA window.

I agree, this was brought up on another thread. I hope its just a bandaid fix for savage. Granted it did fix the cant attack while bound and force out of max melee issue but at the cost of the cool back to back animation and made the lvl 90 skill feel underwhelming in the fun factor for me. Like many said in the other thread just making it not break from weaponskills could have made it flexible, fix the same issues, and keep the dope forked and fleeting combo animations.

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Originally Posted by TroaRandt

If you could bank the charges then you could have charges ready for when TA came up.

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You get charges from using Raiton, which you also want to use under TA. They're already there. Some people act like making the stacks not break instead of allowing us to pick the pure melee option would somehow add some flexibility, when in fact the entire gameplay of NIN is based on fitting everything you can under TA anyways. Raijus actually having utility-difference also makes them more than just button bloat and we've just gotten the Kamaitachi hotkey freed for them.

As for Bunshin, its 90 second cd is pretty much the only thing keeping the downtimes a little bit varied. If anything, NIN needs a couple more cds that automatically drift away from TA, not less.

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Raitons should be under trick, but you get a nijutsu ever 20s so you would be able to bank charges of Raiju to use during TA and still have both charges of ninjutsu up for TA window.

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What charges though? The one ninjutsu that's used outside of TA is Suiton, to set up the TA, you don't get Raiju charges from that. The other 2 are what you hold for TA.

Nah dog, These ninja changes are based and great.

I think the changes are really good! Ninja feels better now and is very fun to play! But I still think he falls a bit behind other dps, like dragoon. If they don't want to buff any potencies, how about a buff to the support aspect of ninja?
Increase the trick attack window to 20 seconds! With that every important skill fits into TA and it adds a lot of additional group support!

Good idea or too op?

The change completely ruined the ninki generation, it feels awful to have to bhav 1 gcd before TA, the forced spinning inside of it is also bad.

Well, how about you don't do it then? Do you use phantom kamaitachi in TA? I don't! I use it as a very flexable ranged skill that I can use when I am forced out of melee range! The gap close raiju as well!
I think people should focus more on having perfect uptime when you can't hit with melee attacks rather than: how can I do the absolute max dps in TA?

I would rather have not gotten a Raiju change, but if they were going to change it like this then they should've kept it at 2 charges per Raiton...
If they had actually buffed the potency like they did too on top of that our damage issue may even have become better/ solved ( I ain't good at math lol ).

The biggest issue with Raiju imo was always that you can't do weapon skills without breaking the stacks.
This change just made Raiju less fun imo.
They should've buffed the potency, kept it at two charges and let us use weapon skills with it.
If they really wanted to make it a gap-closer + no gap-closer version then they should still have kept it at two charges.

Yah, would have been happier with what OP suggested. Also hoping this is just a bandaid for Savage. It was quite the cool factor having Raiju be a two step combo action, just needed a bit of tweaking.

I feel like we're probably in a small minority and yelling at a wall but I couldn't agree more. I came on today for the first time since the patch and ran an expert roulette with my FC and the entire run ended up me just ranting about what the hell they've done to Ninja. I absolutely hate it. Forked Raiju was fun, it was my favourite thing this expansion and made me fall in love with Ninja all over again. Now it's just watered down and ruined and don't even get me started with this new hard on this expansion for making seperate buttons be the same button proc for multiple buttons, it's so god damn stupid.

"What they should have done is left Forked and Fleeting as a combo action but let us hold onto the charges and use them when we wanted to (as the timer allowed) and that would have been fine. At this point they are two buttons for one purpose. Might as well just combine the animations and just call it Raiju and save me the hotbar space because it makes little sense to have 2 buttons that do the exact same thing."

Yeah. This is exactly what I was saying as well.

So are you guys gonna stop playing nin now because of this? Im genuinely curious.

I don't really hate NIN, I am at an impass on what to spend stuff on to gear now whether it's going to be NIN or BLM and I love both.
Which is also why I wish we had gotten the actual balance patch with the Savage patch...
Hard to make your mind up when you don't know what's going to happen.

The presence of Raiju is a lot less now tho and I do think that's a bad thing.
I really hope they bring back two stacks because it almost doesn't even feel like it's part of your rotation and the extra 1 2 3 spam is more noticeable than it was before.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I don't really hate NIN, I am at an impass on what to spend stuff on to gear now whether it's going to be NIN or BLM and I love both.
Which is also why I wish we had gotten the actual balance patch with the Savage patch...
Hard to make your mind up when you don't know what's going to happen.

The presence of Raiju is a lot less now tho and I do think that's a bad thing.
I really hope they bring back two stacks because it almost doesn't even feel like it's part of your rotation and the extra 1 2 3 spam is more noticeable than it was before.

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How long until the next patch do you think?

Btw something I noticed before too and kinda forgot about until I saw it again now.
Why does NIN have the same poetics gear as Casters <_<?
Look at the chestpiece it's the same just a different color lol.

It's just odd to me that we got a robe basically.

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Originally Posted by Cyrexs

How long until the next patch do you think?

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Probably around March is my guess.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Btw something I noticed before too and kinda forgot about until I saw it again now.
Why does NIN have the same poetics gear as Casters <_<?
Look at the chestpiece it's the same just a different color lol.

It's just odd to me that we got a robe basically.



Probably around March is my guess.

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Yeah it’s kind of a bummer having to wait for a whole new patch to see if certain things about the job will get fixed or not. In your opinion do you think we’ll see any ninja adjustments next patch?