Confused by Lolorito and Ilberd

Replaying the MSQ in NG+, in HW, when you and Raubahn confront meriel the former maid of Nanamo, Lolorito shows up and explains the scheme to you. He said Ilberd knows full well of his plan to sabotage Teledji's. And he asked Ilberd to lie about the assassination to enrage Raubahn to cut down Teledji. What I don't understand is what's the reason Ilberd said to Raubahn after his arm got cut off (at the time Teledji's already dead) that he is the one assassinated the sultana himself which further enrages him and sparks the fight and later attempt to execute him.

Ilberd's goal has ever been fixated on liberating Ala Mhigo, what will he gain from defeating and killing Raubahn though? Simply out of hatred towards the "sultana's lap dog"?

My read of it? Yes. Ilberd's goal is liberating Ala Mhigo- but it's also an emotional fueled hatred born of resentment of the Ala Mhigans themselves as much as it is the Garleans. His summoning of Shinryu and his plans up to and including his death make that clear. He resents Raubahn and anyone else that have moved on to creating a new life after Ala Mhigo fell -including himself as he admitted that he did settle down with a family post-fall and then lost them. He wants to punish the Ala Mhigans who haven't laser-focused on liberating Ala Mhigo in a way that he sees as conductive to that goal. His hatred is very realistic in that it's multifaceted towards his oppressors, his fellow victims, and arguably himself.

I don't understand how Lolorito was not executed for treason. He claims he saved her life. He could have just stopped the poisoning from happening. Instead he drugs her so she cannot stop him while he does whatever he wants for however many weeks/months went by before she was woken up via antidote he also could have given to her at any time. He also allowed the WoL to be framed for this crime.

As far as Ilberd was concerned, even he had given up on freeing Ala Mhigo. He said as much with how he was sickened by the way the other refugees had given up hope. He summoned Shinryu to destroy everything. Garlemald and Ala Mhigo both. He wanted to spite the Garleans, not save his people.

Which I can appreciate. To spite him I would rather have left Ala Mhigo under Garlean rule. All his plans and sacrifices for nothing. Would have made me smile.

While the "Killing Teledji" plot was entirely Lolorito's brainchild, everything did not go according to said plan; Teledji goaded Raubahn into killing him himself, after which Raubahn attacked Lolorito in a blind rage, Ilberd stepped in to protect him, and then goaded Raubahn into a fight anyway for the sake of his grudge.

It was a bad situation that spiraled out of control, though I don't understand why Lolorito didn't immediately relinquish his position as de facto head of state, resuscitate Nanamo, and clear the Scions' and Raubahn's names. Well I do, but it's entirely Doylist (the "Ul'dahn Revolution" arc was just filler to keep players occupied while Heavensward was being written, since there were no guarantees the game would survive past A Realm Reborn and given how badly Legacy failed the SE suits didn't want to invest in it until it proved its worth) which is why the ending and denouement of said arc is just kind of grafted into random parts of Heavensward.

Ilberd's goal was to mobilize Eorzea into liberating Ala Mhigo; once he realizes that's impossible with the means presently available to him as Lolorito's right hand man, and Lolorito tires of his insubordination (taking Raubahn to Halatali to execute him was entirely Ilberd's idea) and releases him from his services, Elidibus tempts him with the power to see his goals realized by way of summoning and forcing Eorzea's hand, even if he dies for it.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

I don't understand how Lolorito was not executed for treason. He claims he saved her life. He could have just stopped the poisoning from happening. Instead he drugs her so she cannot stop him while he does whatever he wants for however many weeks/months went by before she was woken up via antidote he also could have given to her at any time. He also allowed the WoL to be framed for this crime.

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Raubahn thought to do it but was reminded he himself also broke the rule of law by murdering Teledji without a fair trial. And Lolorito did provide the awakening potion to mend his wrong. Needless to say, he successfully removed the growing threat of Teledji (he would destablize ul'dah in exchange of getting closer to obtain Omega) through manipulating Raubahn.

It does seem very odd to me that Lolorito also fueled Raubahn's rage in the banquet by suggesting he and the scions work together in the assassination which shouldn't be part of his plan (Get Raubahn to kill Teledji) as he explained later in HW.

Lolorito successfully removed the threat of Teledji via assassination. Honestly the Sultana should have done that as soon as she realized what he was up to.

Nation's leaders having secret orders of assassins working for them used to be a fantasy staple. Not all of a sudden these people are too 'good and true' to solve a problem outside the limitations of the law?

Lawful Good is not the end all be all. Need some Neutral and Chaotic Good to help keep things running.

Unfortunately for Nanamo, Ul'dah has PLD, BLM, and MNK. The Rogues and Dark Knights live in other city-states, but, hey, it turns out the Reapers had that role during the Garlean Republic (sadly could not assassinate their way out of the Republic turning into the monster that the Empire was), and the Lemures are setting up shop now in Ul'dah. There's hope for the Sultanate ;p

Edit: now I crave a job quest addition where we introduce Drusilia to her newest granddaughter 'Lilira', who would be more than happy to help out this family and has a few Syndicate members that Drusilia would love to meet.

It's actually a personal failing of Nanamo's; she's very honest, straightforward, and soft-hearted, which is a hindrance when dealing with snakes like Teledji. Doesn't help she was raised from a young age to be a puppet ruler to the Syndicate.

Lolorito, being a ruthless businessman and shrewd politician when he needs to be, would naturally be much more adept at dealing with treachery like Teledji's.

The thing with Teledji's plan is that if it was stopped by just straight-up stopping it, Teledji and Ilberd would've known something was up and gone for a contingency plan that was probably even worse. Lolorito was actually rather clever to stop it by making it look like it worked, thereby getting those two to stick their necks out and show their whole plan. That doesn't make Lolorito a good person--I'm still of the mindset that after Endwalker, the biggest villain in the world is the Syndicate--but he's a helpful one. A businessman who stands to profit from the status quo is at least going to put resources into preserving it.

With Ul'Dah politically pretty much on a permanent knife's edge, the sultana pulling a big move like 'execute Lolorito' is going to fail hard without a good plan beside it.

Oh no! Lolorito fell down some stairs and died!

Anyway..

Regarding simply assassinating or publicly executing Lolorito, it would not be difficult at all for Nanamo. She has enough truly loyal supporters, and is liked by the populace enough that if she really, really wanted it, it could happen. But there's two main things stopping that, the first is who Nanamo is as a person, it just isn't in her nature to have her enemies killed.

The second is that, if Lolorito was killed, what does that actually accomplish? Sure, maybe Nanamo and a few others get to feel a personal sense of revenge, but after that they're left with an empty seat on the syndicate, a seat that could be filled by any of the numerous unscrupulous merchants of Ul'dah. Who's to say another Teledji wouldn't take his place?

Despite obviously having his own agenda, Lolorito has demonstrated a willingness to work with the Sultana and to some extent, even help her if it means he can profit from it in some way. He's a known variable, that Nanamo can cooperate with for the sake of fufilling their mutual interests. Getting rid of a valuable asset like that is not entirely wise, and Nanamo is demonstrating she's becoming politically savvy by recognizing that.

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

Oh no! Lolorito fell down some stairs and died!

Anyway..

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Honestly, I do suspect something like this to be in Lolorito's future. Lolorito's whole angle seems to be to quietly let his wealth accumulate and to avoid any big moves, so he's unlikely to make any great enemies. But he is still widely unpopular, so it seems less likely that he'll actually be assassinated, and more that he'll face a relatively minor accident and then by sheer chance nobody will be able to help him before an unfortunate death. Terrible shame, that.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Regarding simply assassinating or publicly executing Lolorito, it would not be difficult at all for Nanamo. She has enough truly loyal supporters, and is liked by the populace enough that if she really, really wanted it, it could happen. But there's two main things stopping that, the first is who Nanamo is as a person, it just isn't in her nature to have her enemies killed.

The second is that, if Lolorito was killed, what does that actually accomplish? Sure, maybe Nanamo and a few others get to feel a personal sense of revenge, but after that they're left with an empty seat on the syndicate, a seat that could be filled by any of the numerous unscrupulous merchants of Ul'dah. Who's to say another Teledji wouldn't take his place?

Despite obviously having his own agenda, Lolorito has demonstrated a willingness to work with the Sultana and to some extent, even help her if it means he can profit from it in some way. He's a known variable, that Nanamo can cooperate with for the sake of fufilling their mutual interests. Getting rid of a valuable asset like that is not entirely wise, and Nanamo is demonstrating she's becoming politically savvy by recognizing that.

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The man has shown he is willing to drug the sultana and frame people who the very planet's existence relies on them being around to save it. And he was allowed to get away with it with zero consequences. He will do it again. And I can only pray the devs let me torture him for a while before finally killing him. And then I can whisper to him as I drag the blade across his throat 'Hydaelyn is no longer around to hold me back. All who wronged me will suffer as you have.'

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Originally Posted by Necrotica

And I can only pray the devs let me torture him for a while before finally killing him. And then I can whisper to him as I drag the blade across his throat 'Hydaelyn is no longer around to hold me back. All who wronged me will suffer as you have.'

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