DNC damage

I've read in the forums that DNC damage is really low. Was wondering if a 25% chance for Fan Dance 3 to proc Fan Dance 4 and a 25% chance for Saber Dance to proc Starfall Dance would help.

On a more personal wish list I wish Fan Dance 4 and Starfall Dance was a circle AoE around your target. Where the Bird of Fan Dance 4 explodes upward out of the ground under the target and Starfall Dance has the chakrams rain down around the target. But that is just me.

Curious what other DNCs think.

Personally i'd like to see starfall dance and fan dance 4 be more frequent procs as the buff rather than just potency boosts
wasnt a big fun of less overall procs with the job, when thats the most fun part of it

I agree. I'm not sure exactly the best way I'd go about it currently, but I'm not sure why Fan Dance IV and Starfall Dance were relegated to reactions after Flourish and Devilment respectively. Also, if that's the goal, then why do they have their own spots on the hotbar rather than replacing Flourish or Devilment after they're used, like with Improvised Finish? Not that Dancer has an issue with hotbar real estate or anything, but it's just a little odd.

I'm personally fine with having a cone AoE and line AoE. I kind of like that we have a bit of positional responsibility to maximize our potential with these actions. There are a handful of little things that make you want to think about where you're standing in relation to the raid, and I think that's really fitting, though also not particularly punishing either.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

I agree. I'm not sure exactly the best way I'd go about it currently, but I'm not sure why Fan Dance IV and Starfall Dance were relegated to reactions after Flourish and Devilment respectively. Also, if that's the goal, then why do they have their own spots on the hotbar rather than replacing Flourish or Devilment after they're used, like with Improvised Finish? Not that Dancer has an issue with hotbar real estate or anything, but it's just a little odd.

I'm personally fine with having a cone AoE and line AoE. I kind of like that we have a bit of positional responsibility to maximize our potential with these actions. There are a handful of little things that make you want to think about where you're standing in relation to the raid, and I think that's really fitting, though also not particularly punishing either.

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I think the reason they are activated with Flourish and Devilment is to more easily do a GCD > oGCD > GCD etc. The opener I've been using on dungeon bosses is Standard > Technical > Devilment > Tilliana > Flourish > Starfall > Fan Dance 4 +3 and then I use things as they come back up but every Technical phase plays out the same way. So I think THAT is the reason. Since your procs are now shared between single target and AoE you have less GCDs to work in your oGCDs if they didn't proc the way they do.

However having another way to get Starfall and Fan Dance 4 sometimes would be good to go along with the guaranteed ones. Like how Flourish guarantees your regular attacks and Fan Dance 3. You can get them sometimes but there is a way to guarantee them once a min or 2 min. Even a 10% chance would be good imo. Just something that would allow you to use more of your skills more.

I hadn't thought about Flourish becoming Fan Dance 4 or Devilment becoming Starfall but now that you mention it that would make a lot of sense.

I'd also like to be able to use these skills more often. Would be a fun way of fixing our low damage problem too.

I'm fine with Starfall being behind Devilment for a big infrequent action that hits like a truck, however I would love if the animation was on par, because it looks really underwhelming.

I wish Fan Dance IV was an upgrade from Fan Dance III, because other than a potency boost, they are nearly the same, but the former having a cooler animation. Flourish could just give 2 charges of that instead. But then, the job designers really seem to like having very similar actions across the board. While it works... I'd rather have stuff with more distinct functionalities, or that interacted with something else at least.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

Personally i'd like to see starfall dance and fan dance 4 be more frequent procs as the buff rather than just potency boosts
wasnt a big fun of less overall procs with the job, when thats the most fun part of it

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I’m Actually kinda shocked how submissive the DNC mains are with all these brand new skills absolutely locked behind long ass buff CD. Surely this isn’t the best outcome? Imagine if they locked all skills behind buffs like this. Can’t use Flèche unless you use embolden, can’t use Drill unless you use reassemble can’t use Xenoglossy without us hint leylines, it’s so needlessly restrictive and automatic. Like the job is daftly afraid of users having any amount of freedom

Dancer damage is low, partly because with the Flourish change, we lost extra procs, which weren't compensated. And, yes, the new skills are locked behind long CDs, which kind of sucks.

Also, Tilana makes no sense. Seems like it should just be higher potency and not refresh Standard Step. What possible situation is there when we'd need and extra refresh on Standard Step? It's a one minute buff with a 30 second recast that we do on cool down. Tilana is the strangest, most pointless skill ever.

So, at the very least, Dancer needs potency buffs and Tilana needs a change to either just do more damage, or have an actually useful bonus on it. Maybe increase Esprit or something.

Personally it flows extremely well, and I'd be extremely happy with just small potency buffs. I am curious how it'd flow with FD4 being a FD3 Proc but I'unno, it feels fine as is to me.

Keep in mind, DNC will only get stronger as more gear comes out, as it increases the effectiveness of the dancer themselves and their Partner. Jobs that rely on buffs are just naturally weaker closer to expac launch.

Still, small potency buffs is really all I'd ask for. The job itself feels great as is, tbh.

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Originally Posted by VorpalSpork

Dancer damage is low, partly because with the Flourish change, we lost extra procs, which weren't compensated. And, yes, the new skills are locked behind long CDs, which kind of sucks.

Also, Tilana makes no sense. Seems like it should just be higher potency and not refresh Standard Step. What possible situation is there when we'd need and extra refresh on Standard Step? It's a one minute buff with a 30 second recast that we do on cool down. Tilana is the strangest, most pointless skill ever.

So, at the very least, Dancer needs potency buffs and Tilana needs a change to either just do more damage, or have an actually useful bonus on it. Maybe increase Esprit or something.

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Tilana opens up the door to a lot more multi-DP openers, and that's really it's main function outside of just being a single-weave space GCD to pump even more AOE damage out. It's something a lot of people who were into higher-end DNC optimizations really wanted to see, and frankly I just love the possibilities the skill opens up. Being able to start a fight with standard on someone, then switching to another DPS and reapply standard asap is extremely nice.

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Originally Posted by Flatopia

Tilana opens up the door to a lot more multi-DP openers, and that's really it's main function outside of just being a single-weave space GCD to pump even more AOE damage out. It's something a lot of people who were into higher-end DNC optimizations really wanted to see, and frankly I just love the possibilities the skill opens up. Being able to start a fight with standard on someone, then switching to another DPS and reapply standard asap is extremely nice.

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Um... that doesn't work though. If you drop Closed Position on someone, they lose their Standard Step buff.

Well, Dancer damage remains in the toilet after patch notes. Rather depressing.

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Originally Posted by VorpalSpork

Well, Dancer damage remains in the toilet after patch notes. Rather depressing.

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But you indirectly are buffing reaper. You’re useful now

Just reading the Japanese forums and they aren't happy with the lack of Dancer buffs, either. Maybe in 6.1.

I'm pretty disappointed with Dnc output right now. The amount of nerfs they made to potency and tying two abilities to only pop up when using buffs for Endwalker, just really doesn't make sense to me. I usually have fun playing dnc by being a buffer and contributing to damage, but since the expansion it just feels like they are there just to buff the party and provide eyecandy or something. All I know is I'm going to be hanging dnc up for a while until they decide to look into rebalancing jobs only because they clearly messed up the job right now.

Totally lost on my side too, the buff given by Tilana is totally useless and I absolutely do not see how the modifying the patch will fix anything.

So... Witch them changing your dances to weaponskills does that mean skill speed will make them cool down faster? Or ar the Dances still abilities but the Finishes now Weaponskills? Does this actually do anything other than just reassigning them?

All this does is indirectly buff Reaper and Monk.

https://i.imgur.com/7kFmKXU.png

According to the current logs of savage Asphodelos, the gap between DNC and BRD is simple ridiculous, about 8~9% rD difference is unacceptable.
Even if they buff the Saber Dance by 200 potency, it still can't fill up this gap, i don't even know how could they screw up the balance so hard.
I can only hope they can finally notice this by now and fix it little bit with future patch.

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Originally Posted by VorpalSpork

What possible situation is there when we'd need and extra refresh on Standard Step? It's a one minute buff with a 30 second recast that we do on cool down. Tilana is the strangest, most pointless skill ever.

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Stranger than Starfall only being usable during Devilment despite getting zero benefit from the buff?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

So... Witch them changing your dances to weaponskills does that mean skill speed will make them cool down faster? Or ar the Dances still abilities but the Finishes now Weaponskills? Does this actually do anything other than just reassigning them?

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The CD starts with the steps, not the finish. SKS won't help.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

Um... that doesn't work though. If you drop Closed Position on someone, they lose their Standard Step buff.

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Yeah, I know. But some jobs have more damaging openers than others, but afterwards fall off.
Ninja was like this. Their opener was a lot of damage that benefitted a lot from having Standard, but afterwards you'd switch to another job that did more like Dragoon. It's not having multiple dance partners, as I actually already said in the post you're replying to. It's for being able to switch partners, and then reapply Standard when you want.
This can be used for multi-DP openers, which I just explained again, or maybe your DP messed up and got a damage down or just died and tilana can be used to instantly get standard back up on your new partner.

So here are my thoughts on lv. 83 DNC buff damage:
1. Tech Step should add another buff on top of Standard Step either to your partner or the group.
2. Improvisation must add some kind of damage boost to offset the 15s no DPS while charging your ability. It can be either a DPS boost AoE area effect, improve Devilment, or add a different DPS buff all together.
3. Alternatively if you don't add a dps boost to Improvisation then you must at least allow Steps to be used while charging up.
4. Reduce the cooldown of Devilment to either 60s or 90s, 60s preferred to line up with everything else.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

So here are my thoughts on lv. 83 DNC buff damage:
1. Tech Step should add another buff on top of Standard Step either to your partner or the group.
2. Improvisation must add some kind of damage boost to offset the 15s no DPS while charging your ability. It can be either a DPS boost AoE area effect, improve Devilment, or add a different DPS buff all together.
3. Alternatively if you don't add a dps boost to Improvisation then you must at least allow Steps to be used while charging up.
4. Reduce the cooldown of Devilment to either 60s or 90s, 60s preferred to line up with everything else.

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1. I woudn't say no to something minor, like giving a Dhit buff or something to your partner. I do think adding more damage to standard and tech is a slippery slope, and may lead to dancer damage being even MORE swingy and reliant on your party than it already is.
2. Improv being just a downtime tool if you want the full 15 seconds is fine as is considering it gives a fine regen and 5% shield in double weave. Wouldn't mind a healing potency buff but I think the core design of it is honestly fine, especially considering the old one was just frustrating.
3. Steps during improv actually is a really cool idea. I simp for this. Being able to prep a dance in downtime of a fight while improving sounds awesome and very welcome. Dunno how feasible on the spaghetti code that is, but I really like this idea.
4. I wouldn't say no to this. It buffing your own damage with SF Dance being more frequent sounds fun and isn't as swingy or reliant as just making the dance buffs feel stronger. If this happens I still hope Starfall hits like a truck still and doesn't just feel worse as a consequence. I really like how powerful SF Dance feels currently and would hate to see that go.

((Edit, spelling))

What if your DNCs were Crit Direct Hits if you didn't mess up your steps?