Parsing unfair but okay?

Hello,

I'm finding it hard to find a MC static due to not having parse logs available. Four out of five statics are requiring logs in pf or discord recruitments. I've cleared the previous raid tier but I don't have the logs.

Is this never intended to be enforced and just a blanket policy with no action ever intended to be taken?

I find this a massive advantage to PC user since I don't have the option available on playstation. I don't have the ability to see if I'm improving or if my gear setup makes a difference. I'm not asking to parse but a self dps meter for consoles would make a giant difference in being competetive. Currently the only available method to test my damage is the target dummy trials but in 3 minutes it can be heavily skewed by crits/dh and the times can vary by a lot.

Is there any advice on how to join a high end static without logs or the ability to optimize?

Join a parse run for one of the current EXes in party finder -- they're up all the time. Someone else will get the logs for you.

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Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu

Hello,

I'm finding it hard to find a MC static due to not having parse logs available. Four out of five statics are requiring logs in pf or discord recruitments

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parsing and mods/addons in general are against the rules so just report any such group you find

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

parsing and mods/addons in general are against the rules so just report any such group you find

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Those kind of groups are usually advertised on Discord and so on. And the OP blatantly reporting them will result in them having an even harder time finding a group. A solid chunk of statics are pro-parse and will openly mention it. And I don’t think reporting people in your static for a commonplace practice in midcore hardcore groups is a good idea.

I can see how from a casual perspective this seems like a good idea. But not from a raiders perspective. Tbh - since I vc a fair amount in Discord while raiding I’d probably end up cussing someone out for reporting one of my teammates for that.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

parsing and mods/addons in general are against the rules so just report any such group you find

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Here we go again. Show us on the doll where the bad parser touched you.

If you harass someone using the parsing data as the reason, that's an offense. You will be disciplined because you harassed someone. The reason you would be banned would be for harassment, not because of the parser, because SE cannot in any way prove you have a parser. They cannot see what is running on your system, in any way shape or form.

Harassing people = Bad
Looking at numbers and not harassing people = Fine

To the OP:

Like the above stated, join a PF EX run. Or, speak to one of those groups recruiting and explain your situation. Generally one of the group will be a recruiter and would take you on a PF EX run or something equivalent to get data to see.

It does need to be said, that if you in any way get harassed about it, the harassment is a reportable offense.

Running parsers is against the letter but not the spirit of the game and thus is generally something Square turns a blind eye to.

Disparaging other players based on parser data, or demanding they use parsers, is against both the letter and spirit of the game, and a GM will take action if you report someone for doing so.

How fast this will descent into a pointless discussion if using parser is banable or not?
https://c.tenor.com/iqnhYzFvLeUAAAAC/popcorn-panda.gif

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Originally Posted by Endariel

How fast this will descent into a pointless discussion if using parser is banable or not?
https://c.tenor.com/iqnhYzFvLeUAAAAC/popcorn-panda.gif

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It already did.

Pass me some of that popcorn. I already said my piece.

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Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

Here we go again. Show us on the doll where the bad parser touched you.

If you harass someone using the parsing data as the reason, that's an offense. You will be disciplined because you harassed someone. The reason you would be banned would be for harassment, not because of the parser, because SE cannot in any way prove you have a parser. They cannot see what is running on your system, in any way shape or form.

Harassing people = Bad
Looking at numbers and not harassing people = Fine

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Actually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

- That is their stance on parsers. That's Yoshi-P talking into the camera right there.

What people think of them, for or against. Harassment or not - all of that is of no consequence.


That noted... if you join a parsing run and somebody else does the parsing and gives you a link to your results, send that to whoever you're applying to.

The midcore to hardcore casuals are about to come in.

I can smell it.

That and popcorn.

Edit; It’s also against ToS to use Discord but I’ll keep utilizing it as a tool to improve my gameplay experience.

About the only ways they can tell you're using a parser is if you either

a) post video of yourself using one, which they will usually ignore unless given a reason not to, but since they can hit you on the technicality if they want to, I do not suggest doing this

or

b) you straight up admit in-game that you are using a parser, as in the sentence "I'm looking at your numbers on my parser and your DPS is shit bro." This is an excellent way to commit account seppuku with a GM serving as your kaishakunin and I extremely suggest not doing this.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Actually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

- That is their stance on parsers. That's Yoshi-P talking into the camera right there.

What people think of them, for or against. Harassment or not - all of that is of no consequence.


That noted... if you join a parsing run and somebody else does the parsing and gives you a link to your results, send that to whoever you're applying to.

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YoshiP does say to not use them in that video, and then right after follows up with it's a grey area and that SE cannot see what is running on your system.

YoshiP is trying to heavily discourage the harassment mentality, and the mentality of "You must parse THIS high to access THIS content".

SE cannot see the program running. Therefore, for any ban to happen, they have to have proof. When someone is harassing someone else via chat and using that data to belittle them, there's the proof. To back themselves up legally, the reason for the ban would be "harassment", because SE can prove that via their chat logs. They cannot, 100%, prove you have a parser.

EDIT: Or, as someone else stated, someone being a complete idiot and basically admitting they are running it via the in game chat. For which anyone with half a brain wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

EDIT: Or, as someone else stated, someone being a complete idiot and basically admitting they are running it via the in game chat. For which anyone with half a brain wouldn't.

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Half a brain is not a requirement to install either FFXIV or a parser, alas. I saw someone come -to this very forum- to shit-talk another user, to their face, using their parse data, about a week ago.

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Originally Posted by ArkenaeuxBelmont

YoshiP does say to not use them in that video,

[...some pointless stuff about being able to run a red light as long as nobody's looking which is a topic about the grey areas of 'ethics' / 'choices' and NOT about 'rules'...]

SE cannot see the program running.

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Something being impossible for them to see is NOT the same as it being allowed.

All that matters in the video is what he says the rule is.

Everything beyond that is a question of telling people whether or not it's allowed to drive 120mph down a city street if no cop is around.

It's still illegal even if you don't get caught. You just then need to decide for yourself how you view what you should do as a result.

One thing I would however advice against, is going to the police station to hand out instructions or ask for those instructions on how to drive 120mph...

When I was 16 my bicycle was stolen even though it was locked... So I went to the police station to file a report. Outside there was a guy smoking a "now legal in my state but wholly illegal back then controlled substance"... and yelling at the top of his lungs for somebody to arrest him using a slur for individuals in law enforcement. They ignored him... I still thought he was kinda stupid for picking THAT SPOT to make his statement...

Being able to get away with something is very different from something being within the rules...
.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Something being impossible for them to see is NOT the same as it being allowed.

All that matters in the video is what he says the rule is.

Everything beyond that is a question of telling people whether or not it's allowed to drive 120mph down a city street if no cop is around.

It's still illegal even if you don't get caught. You just then need to decide for yourself how you view what you should do as a result.

One thing I would however advice against, is going to the police station to hand out instructions or ask for those instructions on how to drive 120mph...

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Driving 120mph is likely to kill someone - including yourself. Running a parser isn’t even remotely comparable.

Not all statics care about this and you could always make your own that doesn't.

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Originally Posted by kejakalope

Half a brain is not a requirement to install either FFXIV or a parser, alas. I saw someone come -to this very forum- to shit-talk another user, to their face, using their parse data, about a week ago.

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So that kind of person gets nuked by the GMs and deserves every bit of it.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

Driving 120mph is likely to kill someone - including yourself. Running a parser isn’t even remotely comparable.

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-woosh-

I see analogies are not a strong point with you. Try them, to read the rest of the statement and think very vary very hard... until you perhaps understand the concept of what I was saying.

ps: In my example above... whoever stole my bike back when I was a kid got away with it. They were never caught. Does that mean it was within the rules allowed for them to steal it? No. It just means they got away with. Different advice applies to that individual for guiding their conduct...

pps: The example I gave of the guy outside the police station clearly violating the then state law? He did that because "everybody knew" the cops in my town didn't enforce that law. And so he got away with it, then. But if a private citizen had gone into the station and filed a complaint - they had a rule, and now a complaint - and they would have then enforced it.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

-woosh-

I see analogies are not a strong point with you. Try them, to read the rest of the statement and think very vary very hard... until you perhaps understand the concept of what I was saying.

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I can read perfectly fine. How about you come up with a better analogy that actually - you know - makes sense?

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

So that kind of person gets nuked by the GMs and deserves every bit of it.

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yyyyyyyyyyyep, that's how it be

Apply anyways and say you don't have logs, but are willing to do a trial run of an EX or something with them to prove competency. I run a hardcore static and we have two PS4 users who did just that.

Worst that can happen is that they decline you. In which case you did not want to be in that static anyways.

If they are recruiting and you have no logs to present, the best way for them to gauge your performance is for them to play with you. Ask them to consider you in a test/trial run with current Extreme trials.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Something being impossible for them to see is NOT the same as it being allowed.

All that matters in the video is what he says the rule is.

Everything beyond that is a question of telling people whether or not it's allowed to drive 120mph down a city street if no cop is around.

It's still illegal even if you don't get caught. You just then need to decide for yourself how you view what you should do as a result.

One thing I would however advice against, is going to the police station to hand out instructions or ask for those instructions on how to drive 120mph...

When I was 16 my bicycle was stolen even though it was locked... So I went to the police station to file a report. Outside there was a guy smoking a "now legal in my state but wholly illegal back then controlled substance"... and yelling at the top of his lungs for somebody to arrest him using a slur for individuals in law enforcement. They ignored him... I still thought he was kinda stupid for picking THAT SPOT to make his statement...

Being able to get away with something is very different from something being within the rules...
.

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Is any code being manipulated?
Is it providing an in the moment gameplay advantage over another player?
Is it violating another player's ability to play?
Is it breaking an encounter designed by SE?


Trying to compare running a calculator to driving 120mph and recklessly endangering someone's life, or being dishonest enough to steal someone else's property is a horrible comparison.

The program in of itself hurts no one, changes nothing about the game, edits no code, does nothing dishonest. It compiles public data which is readily available in the combat log chat window.

By your logic, yes, it is against the rules of ToS to use any third party program. The same logic would make Discord a bannable offense. The same logic should mean that FFlogs should be taken down.

You see anyone getting banned for that? No. It's 100% about the spirit of the enforcement in this case and not the letter. People use it to harass, they get banned. Someone's an idiot with it, they get banned.

A static quietly using their calculator to enhance their own personal play by seeing what they are doing wrong and improving themselves isn't getting banned.

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Originally Posted by xxmiamorecadenza

The midcore to hardcore casuals are about to come in.

I can smell it.

That and popcorn.

Edit; It’s also against ToS to use Discord but I’ll keep utilizing it as a tool to improve my gameplay experience.

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I'm gonna be real and say if any game, period, started handing out bans for using third party software entirely unrelated to the game (like voice chat apps) I'd straight up quit myself lmao

Not directed at you but like man. I admittedly only skimmed the article where they mentioned Discord technically being against the ToS, but I very much got the impression that it was sort of a "in order to hunt down and ban people using parsers we'd need to use invasive methods and also technically go to the extreme of banning every third party anything" and like... It's so absurd that I just can't even imagine it being taken or used seriously lmao

Anyway yeah OP find a friend or somebody willing to help out is the advice really. Or do what others have suggested and request a trial run. Everyone parsing is doing it at risk obviously but SE is also extremely unlikely to do anything about it unless someone does something silly like link numbers or admit to doing it in chat. So. Take that as you will.

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Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu

Hello,

I'm finding it hard to find a MC static due to not having parse logs available. Four out of five statics are requiring logs in pf or discord recruitments. I've cleared the previous raid tier but I don't have the logs.

Is this never intended to be enforced and just a blanket policy with no action ever intended to be taken?

I find this a massive advantage to PC user since I don't have the option available on playstation. I don't have the ability to see if I'm improving or if my gear setup makes a difference. I'm not asking to parse but a self dps meter for consoles would make a giant difference in being competetive. Currently the only available method to test my damage is the target dummy trials but in 3 minutes it can be heavily skewed by crits/dh and the times can vary by a lot.

Is there any advice on how to join a high end static without logs or the ability to optimize?

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1. Parsing Data is okay, but they should not be making it a requirement and they're welcoming hell fire from GMs by doing that.

2. They could however circumvent that and actually offer to do a trial run with you of an EX to see how you stack up, just remember in this situation you are consenting to them parsing you and accepting they will make a decision on that Data. As long as they're cordial and you're okay with that, that could be an Avenue for you.

3. However if you do agree and they get nasty about your performance using the data, then do report them as they're not trying to be helpful or build on the raiding community, they're just using the parser as an attempt to gate keep and that is not allowed..


Hope that helps!

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

1. Parsing Data is okay, but they should not be making it a requirement and they're welcoming hell fire from GMs by doing that.

2. They could however circumvent that and actually offer to do a trial run with you of an EX to see how you stack up, just remember in this situation you are consenting to them parsing you and accepting they will make a decision on that Data. As long as they're cordial and you're okay with that, that could be an Avenue for you.

3. However if you do agree and they get nasty about your performance using the data, then do report them as they're not trying to be helpful or build on the raiding community, they're just using the parser as an attempt to gate keep and that is not allowed..


Hope that helps!

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I'm pro parse and would never report someone for stating the truth. It comes to a point where if you don't carry your weight you can't beat a dps check. I would gladly welcome all feedback if it helps me improve both positive and negative. It's an amazing tool for self improvement. I get a bit salty for the fact that I don't have the ability to improve at all times only in very few moments when logs are available.

The trial run is a good idea. I guess would have limit myself to ex2 since ninja is kinda broken in the first one with the binding locking it out of attacking which lines up with trick attack windows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

1. Parsing Data is okay, but they should not be making it a requirement and they're welcoming hell fire from GMs by doing that.

2. They could however circumvent that and actually offer to do a trial run with you of an EX to see how you stack up, just remember in this situation you are consenting to them parsing you and accepting they will make a decision on that Data. As long as they're cordial and you're okay with that, that could be an Avenue for you.

3. However if you do agree and they get nasty about your performance using the data, then do report them as they're not trying to be helpful or build on the raiding community, they're just using the parser as an attempt to gate keep and that is not allowed..


Hope that helps!

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I love the irony here. Players are gatekeeping by using parse data as constructive criticism yet reporting potential statics you applied to, and who took the time to give you a trial totally isn't scummy behavior. Anything and every excuse imaginable, I guess...

Allow me to let you in on a secret. The two most popular sources for static recruitment by a enormous margin are Discord and Reddit. Both of which are entirely outside of a GM's reach should they require logs.

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Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu

I'm pro parse and would never report someone for stating the truth. It comes to a point where if you don't carry your weight you can't beat a dps check. I would gladly welcome all feedback if it helps me improve both positive and negative. It's an amazing tool for self improvement. I get a bit salty for the fact that I don't have the ability to improve at all times only in very few moments when logs are available.

The trial run is a good idea. I guess would have limit myself to ex2 since ninja is kinda broken in the first one with the binding locking it out of attacking which lines up with trick attack windows.

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If you have any PC friends who fancy doing EXs, you could ask them to parse you. Otherwise, your best option is joining "barse" parties. One thing I can suggest is logging multiple jobs if you're open to being flexible within your role. That can really help give you an edge on other potential statics. If nothing else, spam the new normal mode raids a bunch. You'll inevitably get things uploaded by someone.

There's usually to always some group in Party Finder that's doing a parse run. Parsing is only against the rules when you use it as a means to ruin someone else's gameplay experience. So, join a run, get the job done, check to see if it's there, improve, apply to statics, and move on.

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Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu

Is there any advice on how to join a high end static without logs or the ability to optimize?

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Run some PF farm groups in EX or such. Those are nearly always logged by someone else.

If you're unwilling to PF, or if your logs turned out to be bad, you weren't ready for a high end static. There's no shame in bad logs, just plug the log into xivanalysis, see where you need to improve and keep practicing in PF until you're at the level you need.

Reporting the groups does nothing so ignore that advice. Even if the devs rushed to your aid and banned all those statics, it wouldn't get you a group. High end groups would find some other way to measure you. It's not about exclusion (many decent statics will even accept mediocre logs if you have good motivation), it's about ensuring their new team member is ready for the content they plan to do.

Clear the current ex trials you will get a parse posted. Just do your best.

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Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu

Hello,

I'm finding it hard to find a MC static due to not having parse logs available. Four out of five statics are requiring logs in pf or discord recruitments. I've cleared the previous raid tier but I don't have the logs.

Is this never intended to be enforced and just a blanket policy with no action ever intended to be taken?

I find this a massive advantage to PC user since I don't have the option available on playstation. I don't have the ability to see if I'm improving or if my gear setup makes a difference. I'm not asking to parse but a self dps meter for consoles would make a giant difference in being competetive. Currently the only available method to test my damage is the target dummy trials but in 3 minutes it can be heavily skewed by crits/dh and the times can vary by a lot.

Is there any advice on how to join a high end static without logs or the ability to optimize?

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If your first question is about how to punish those groups then I'm not convinced you belong in a MC static, or any static for that matter. Parsers and logs are very useful for high end raiding to keep people honest. Explain them the situation and ask for a trial run. Additionally join farm and parse parties on the current ex trials, someone will probably upload logs.

I am so sick of the gray area. Just allow them or don't. This don't ask don't tell is ridiculous and has gone on long enough.

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Originally Posted by Xaruko_Nexume

I am so sick of the gray area. Just allow them or don't. This don't ask don't tell is ridiculous and has gone on long enough.

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But it's the right and balanced solution. It deals with the actual problem. Having a gray area like that is not a bad thing, people just have to think for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Hawuhawuu

Hello,

I'm finding it hard to find a MC static due to not having parse logs available. Four out of five statics are requiring logs in pf or discord recruitments. I've cleared the previous raid tier but I don't have the logs.

Is this never intended to be enforced and just a blanket policy with no action ever intended to be taken?

I find this a massive advantage to PC user since I don't have the option available on playstation. I don't have the ability to see if I'm improving or if my gear setup makes a difference. I'm not asking to parse but a self dps meter for consoles would make a giant difference in being competetive. Currently the only available method to test my damage is the target dummy trials but in 3 minutes it can be heavily skewed by crits/dh and the times can vary by a lot.

Is there any advice on how to join a high end static without logs or the ability to optimize?

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I don't see the problem? You want to join a group of people but not to exept the rules the set? Are they in dept to you and must do what you want? You are the one no one want. Just start your own static and see how well it go when you just take any one.next you will wonder why people ask if you to know what to do?

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Originally Posted by Makeda

Actually:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU

- That is their stance on parsers. That's Yoshi-P talking into the camera right there.

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YoshiP: "That system will be the root of bullying. I'm 100% confident in that. I know you'll see this in party finders: 'Only join if you can prove you can do dps XXX amount'. We never want that to happen."

AHAHAHAHAAHGHAGHAGLHGLHAGLH GALHGLKHKLSDHG KLJKLSDJ WELL
What can we say. The man was right. The prophecy proved itself to be true. And it's exactly why it'll never officially be in game. You can all see right there that that kind of behavior irritates him. But unfortunately no matter how much people kick and scream, that behavior always without fail always comes hand-in-hand with public parsing. Just report it when you spot it. Yah people will cry and type up novels about why they should be able to do exactly what Yoshi has said multiple times now that he hates. But you have the right of way, so it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to take that person down for demanding that in-game which is stupid and begging for a ban to begin with. Idk why people are so determined to do crimes openly-what is this, san francisco. Jeez. -and if this post makes anyone who doesnt post public pfs asking for parse logs still seethe regardless, then you're tripping your own bike with a stick and I need you to stop that.

Parsing and using third party tools are against the rules, guess that anyone using voice chat is also against the rules, I wonder how many players would be able to remain in the game if they followed the letter of the rules instead of the spirit...

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Originally Posted by Bhearil

Parsing and using third party tools are against the rules, guess that anyone using voice chat is also against the rules, I wonder how many players would be able to remain in the game if they followed the letter of the rules instead of the spirit...

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Using voice chat is technically against the rules by their standards. It gives you an 'unfair advantage' if you can communicate with your teammates whilst in the middle of content, after all.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

YoshiP: "That system will be the root of bullying. I'm 100% confident in that. I know you'll see this in party finders: 'Only join if you can prove you can do dps XXX amount'. We never want that to happen."

AHAHAHAHAAHGHAGHAGLHGLHAGLH GALHGLKHKLSDHG KLJKLSDJ WELL
What can we say. The man was right. The prophecy proved itself to be true. And it's exactly why it'll never officially be in game. You can all see right there that that kind of behavior irritates him. But unfortunately no matter how much people kick and scream, that behavior always without fail always comes hand-in-hand with public parsing. Just report it when you spot it. Yah people will cry and type up novels about why they should be able to do exactly what Yoshi has said multiple times now that he hates. But you have the right of way, so it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to take that person down for demanding that in-game which is stupid and begging for a ban to begin with. Idk why people are so determined to do crimes openly-what is this, san francisco. Jeez. -and if this post makes anyone who doesnt post public pfs asking for parse logs still seethe regardless, then you're tripping your own bike with a stick and I need you to stop that.

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Yea definitely, you have the right of way into every static. If someone refuses to make you part of their static report them, I'm sure that'll make it much easier to get into that group and it will definitely lead to a healthy group dynamic. OP is trying to apply for a static, not just some random PF for whatever savage floor or ex trial. That makes a huge difference.

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

YoshiP: "That system will be the root of bullying. I'm 100% confident in that. I know you'll see this in party finders: 'Only join if you can prove you can do dps XXX amount'. We never want that to happen."

AHAHAHAHAAHGHAGHAGLHGLHAGLH GALHGLKHKLSDHG KLJKLSDJ WELL
What can we say. The man was right. The prophecy proved itself to be true. And it's exactly why it'll never officially be in game. You can all see right there that that kind of behavior irritates him. But unfortunately no matter how much people kick and scream, that behavior always without fail always comes hand-in-hand with public parsing. Just report it when you spot it. Yah people will cry and type up novels about why they should be able to do exactly what Yoshi has said multiple times now that he hates. But you have the right of way, so it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to take that person down for demanding that in-game which is stupid and begging for a ban to begin with. Idk why people are so determined to do crimes openly-what is this, san francisco. Jeez. -and if this post makes anyone who doesnt post public pfs asking for parse logs still seethe regardless, then you're tripping your own bike with a stick and I need you to stop that.

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Serious static recruitment is done pretty much exclusively through Discord. And unlike some forum users, Yoshida realizes that he has no power there.

No matter how much he might dislike something, he will never manage to force players into grouping with someone they don't want to group with. Neither should he be able to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Batbrat

YoshiP: "That system will be the root of bullying. I'm 100% confident in that. I know you'll see this in party finders: 'Only join if you can prove you can do dps XXX amount'. We never want that to happen."

AHAHAHAHAAHGHAGHAGLHGLHAGLH GALHGLKHKLSDHG KLJKLSDJ WELL
What can we say. The man was right. The prophecy proved itself to be true. And it's exactly why it'll never officially be in game. You can all see right there that that kind of behavior irritates him. But unfortunately no matter how much people kick and scream, that behavior always without fail always comes hand-in-hand with public parsing. Just report it when you spot it. Yah people will cry and type up novels about why they should be able to do exactly what Yoshi has said multiple times now that he hates. But you have the right of way, so it's up to you to decide whether or not you want to take that person down for demanding that in-game which is stupid and begging for a ban to begin with. Idk why people are so determined to do crimes openly-what is this, san francisco. Jeez. -and if this post makes anyone who doesnt post public pfs asking for parse logs still seethe regardless, then you're tripping your own bike with a stick and I need you to stop that.

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My eyes have never rolled so hard in my life.

The amount of casual-ness radiating from this statement alone is astonishing.