What’s the point of the mentor system?

I have fulfilled the requirements lately but I don’t really get it.

First it’s almost the year 2022, when I want to know something I pick up my phone that’s laying next to me and get the information I want within 5 seconds from google and it’s algorithm and from more than one source in case of contradiction. It’s not some year 2000 MMO where getting the information from the internet would be incredibly time consuming.

Next thing is giving the mentor a crown. This will draw in all sorts of special people and it’s clear that those people will use anything possibly to put themselves above others in the internet. It shouldn’t be a crown.

Then there’s supposedly another layer of artificial hierarchy with the title ‘mentor of mentors’. Oof, we’re getting into rough territory here.

Apart from that, to become a mentor you don’t need to be skilled or knowledgeable about the game, the role quests are a joke and the likes and dungeon runs can be farmed. You could fulfill those requirements by running a single dungeon for 3 months. And there’s even ‘advice’ on various sites how to best manipulate people into giving you their like at the end of a run.

I don’t get it really. People were asking for something like that in WoW, but it did never happen for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

I don’t get it really. People were asking for something like that in WoW, but it did never happen for a reason.

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That's actually the best endorsement I've ever seen for FFXIV to HAVE a mentor system. WoW doesn't have it and look at how their community turned out.

Most people tend to say our mentor system is toxic in NA... but you've basically just said the opposite.

And yes, that's why we have it - to promote positive community. It works in JP. I don't know how it fares in EU. It's been a miss in NA. But it has a lot of value in JP I hear, where mentors actually mentor people rather than hold it up like a badge of "Shut up noob, I know more than you about EVERYTHING, see my tag?"

We have it, because when a community uses it as intended, it works to build stronger community.

It is true though, a lot of people only wanted the mentor role for the sake of having a crown next to their name. Not only that, you get a mount too…

But then you do get the helpful mentors. I have come across quite a few since I started who were incredibly helpful & was very informative during dungeons when I was struggling with the mechanics.

I acquired the mount after 2000 runs of the roulette.

That's genuinely the only reason. I just wanted the mount.

As soon as I got it I dipped. Overall I think the title and crown are a joke - as mentors really just regurgitate easily googled answers to relatively basic questions.

I just think it's kinda a shame you've gotta be at endgame to qualify. I enjoyed and spent a lot of time capped at 50, I'd probably make a good ARR mentor. Maybe an ok HW mentor. But since I allow myself to lag behind on MSQ, I never get the chance.

It's supposed to be a system where the mentor helps newbies with their questions, and filling queues through the mentor roulette.

What it is, is a bunch of unregulated people who all have different opinions, and some - usually the more vocal portion in game at least - who use it to inflate their ego and think they run the place.

No real point in mentorship really. It should be shut down. At the very least, they could get rid of the crown though. Many players are mentors either just for the crown, or for their own chat channel (NN). It doesn't really bring anything to the game, and if a player wants to give advice, or help others, there is no need to be a mentor to do so.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

At the very least, they could get rid of the crown though.

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I don’t think SE would get rid of the crown knowing people have gone out of their way to get it. If anything, I think they should change the meaning of the crown.. like, make it an achievement to get the crown and change the mentor icon to a watering can (like Zepla said) by changing the mentor icon to something more nurturing it’ll appeal more towards those who actually *want* to help.

burger king flex

Why are so many people concerned with what icon people get or don't get to display next to their name? It's just a game feature that has no impact whatsoever on your gameplay. It doesn't need to have a deep and profound meaning in the same way that dungeons, glamours or housing doesn't need to be a spiritual experience either. It's an achievement reward that comes with its own roulette.

Unlock it, don't unlock it, it makes no difference at the end of the day.

In theory it's for experienced players to pick up to signify they're more willing and adept to answer questions for newbies and guide them through content.

However, the nature of MMO players tends to be selfish - and so they sought to motivate players to choose this role by giving them tangible rewards for doing it. You get a special icon, a mount, and certain other things; this means now, rather than being filled with skilled players who choose to become mentors to help other people, it's filled with people who become mentors because they wanted a fancy crown to make themselves look cool and a unique mount not everyone else will be able to get.

So, basically, square shot themselves in the foot by doing that and doomed mentorship from ever actually being useful. IMO they should strip those rewards from the mentor program, change the crown to a more humble icon (the little watering can one people have suggested in the past is cute) and keep holding mentors to task and strip poor mentors of their title because boy howdy have I seen more mentors who rage quit and display really caustic attitudes and behaviors in-game than I've seen mentors willing to help do things like explain mechanics and help new players improve at the game.

I admit I became a mentor (only trade atm, still short a few hundred comms for battle but lets face it, comms are inevitable if you're decent, especially if you tank or heal) just for NN. I enjoy NN.

But I also do my due diligence and if someone asks a question I do my best to answer it, if I believe I can answer it satisfactorily. Sometimes I even help people get their MSQ dungeons and trials done. So I do my part in trying to help out when I can, and I believe that so long as there are enough mentors out there that are like me or better than me, and on my server at least I can safely say there are, then the Mentor system is worth keeping.

There ARE toxic mentors out there, absolutely. A product of mentorship being so easy to get, and a mount being awarded through Mentor roulette. It's unfortunate, but it's up to us to police the Mentor program and report any mentors who we believe are abusing the mentor system. Sprouts should be doing this as well but admittedly Square could do a lot better in informing new players about this, as they WILL revoke mentor privileges from mentors that are clearly abusing the system and sprouts in general, but I often see sprouts that don't even know this is possible, let alone know how to report.

As for the crown, that icon could be anything and it'd still spark an elitist attitude in certain individuals, but the point of it is supposed to be advertising "I'm a mentor, I know whats what, ask me if you need help". Personally I hide mine, though. I feel I'm a decent player but I'm still inexperienced enough in several systems that I shouldn't have sprouts following my examples on certain habits of mine. That, and I get anxious of screwing up in raid content and the less attention I draw in that content the better :p

The "Point":
Identify experienced players who have a baseline of competency and willingness to help to those who might have questions in game as well as a universal roulette that would put them in a variety of instances to fill out space with a player who should theoretically be able to guide newer players through unfamiliar mechanics.

The actuality:
Many NA Players immediately saw it as a status symbol and route to another goodie that others might not have and abused the Novice network as their personal moderateable chat and the roulettes were optimized to quick clears or leaving if it was apparent that a non-clear was possible.


The problem as I see it: The Mentor program as it is, is not culturally compatible with the NA/EU player mindset in general. For every mentor out there to be helpful and open, there are mentors who sour the experience for newbies for their own benefit.

Initially I went for Mentor so I could unlock Mentor Roulette and get to teach people how to do Extreme Trials, since they are otherwise a dead content that nobody does anymore.

Once I got it thought I stayed because it's fun to talk on NN sometimes, you see some funny things and even make friends. Obviously I help whenever I can or see someone asking a question, but most of the time people just use it to spread information around about things. In my experience, the majority of mentors in NN don't even talk. And the ones that do are often friendly and helpful. Maybe some of them did do it just to get the crown, but at the end of the day the crown doesn't really mean anything. I doubt new players would even know what it is, so I really don't see the point of making a fuss over it.

I have yet to encounter a mentor in a dungeon who is really good. Usually they are tanks who don't use mitigation, don't say anything in the chat, rarely explain mechanics and just bruteforce the boss after several wipes still. I remember I had to explain a mechanic to two mentors in a dungeon and it's just like... who's supposed to be the mentor here?

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

I have fulfilled the requirements lately but I don’t really get it.

Next thing is giving the mentor a crown. This will draw in all sorts of special people and it’s clear that those people will use anything possibly to put themselves above others in the internet. It shouldn’t be a crown.

Then there’s supposedly another layer of artificial hierarchy with the title ‘mentor of mentors’. Oof, we’re getting into rough territory here.

Apart from that, to become a mentor you don’t need to be skilled or knowledgeable about the game, the role quests are a joke and the likes and dungeon runs can be farmed. You could fulfill those requirements by running a single dungeon for 3 months. And there’s even ‘advice’ on various sites how to best manipulate people into giving you their like at the end of a run.

I don’t get it really. People were asking for something like that in WoW, but it did never happen for a reason.

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Why shouldn't there be an icon and rewards? First off, just because there are some people that do it just for the crown, doesn't mean everyone does.

"Mentor of mentors" title comes from running 500 mentor roulettes. Those can be literally any instance in the game aside from savage, ultimate, or current extremes. A mentor has to be willing to subject themselves to new players, some of which have no desire to learn mechanics to clear that content, and clear 500 instances.

The mount? That's 2000 cleared runs. I can't tell you how many "mentor roulette hostage situations" I was in. That's when the newer players think they know better than to listen to the explanation of mechanics, usually for a synced extreme trial, and think they'll just face pull to victory and ignore mechanics. I had some good groups that did want to learn the fights, and either cleared, or made great progress towards clearing in a lockout.... but there were times when I had groups that were an abuse of my play time. Ignore the mentor's explanation of mechanics that are being failed, refuse to vote abandon, and of course nobody really wants to take a penalty to leave.... then you have yourself a mentor hostage situation.

You can pry my mount whistle out of my cold, dead, fingers. I paid my dues, taught a lot of sprouts, and suffered some horrendously entitled people who don't think the mechanics apply to them for it.

I genuinely enjoyed helping people that wanted help, but that's what I do on a daily basis with friends, FC members, etc. I have also been known to join learning and clear parties for fights I've already cleared when I have the time to kill. You want me to queue to help 2000 groups of newbies clear things? Yeah, I think that deserves a little reward at least. Why begrudge the decent mentors that reward?

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

I have fulfilled the requirements lately but I don’t really get it.

First it’s almost the year 2022, when I want to know something I pick up my phone that’s laying next to me and get the information I want within 5 seconds from google and it’s algorithm and from more than one source in case of contradiction. It’s not some year 2000 MMO where getting the information from the internet would be incredibly time consuming.

Next thing is giving the mentor a crown. This will draw in all sorts of special people and it’s clear that those people will use anything possibly to put themselves above others in the internet. It shouldn’t be a crown.

Then there’s supposedly another layer of artificial hierarchy with the title ‘mentor of mentors’. Oof, we’re getting into rough territory here.

Apart from that, to become a mentor you don’t need to be skilled or knowledgeable about the game, the role quests are a joke and the likes and dungeon runs can be farmed. You could fulfill those requirements by running a single dungeon for 3 months. And there’s even ‘advice’ on various sites how to best manipulate people into giving you their like at the end of a run.

I don’t get it really. People were asking for something like that in WoW, but it did never happen for a reason.

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I agree with you OP, you aren't the sort of person who should be a mentor. You also haven't played long enough to have the experience to do it.

This is why the Mentor system needs completely re-worked, and newbies such as yourself should find it entirely out of reach.

Ah, another thread telling mentors precisely how they should volunteer their time.

What’s the point of the mentor system?

For FFXIV content creators to complain about.

I only picked up mentor to use the novice network, i use it like a linkpearl or fc to talk to other people, ask for help or help others.

Being a mentor doesn't mean you are some super knowledgeable teacher or whatever, even i, after finishing the game, forget stuff after going on a long hiatus.

Mentor is more like being willing to help others if they have questions or need someone to guide them trough content.

Sure there are bad mentors too who use it as a sign of accomplishment or to flex on others, they can be reported i believe, since you are confirming a TOS to helping others when you get it.

The point of the mentor system is so that new players and returners can quickly identify veteran players who can answer their questions.

Mentors invite new players to the novice network regularly and returners get invited automatically after being away for 45 days or more. They regularly ask very basic questions such as how to get a chocobo, how to unlock flying or how to get better gear. Sometimes they ask for help with their queue because it's taking an hour. Mentors work together to tackle problems they have such as a quest not showing or a missing item as well.

They could use google, but it does not always yield a clear answer and a lot of people just want to play a game casually and for it to be intuitive instead of googling everything. It's difficult for an MMO to be intuitive because they are so big, so the novice network is a way for it to be intuitive by having veteran players explain it.

I do wonder why it's a crown but the crown is effective at conveying to a new player that "I don't have this symbol so they must be a veteran player". I can't speak for trade mentors but most pve mentors have played for at least a year. Even though you can meet the requirements by doing a single dungeon I think that most people get it naturally from doing roulettes and leveling all of the classes. If you look at most pve mentors they have leveled a lot of classes and obviously do a lot of content.

The role quests may be easy but they could be a lot easier. I think there are some things they do to test your basic knowledge, such as getting tanks to interrupt or healers to heal so that the duty doesn't fail. I feel sure that there are people who fail them because they didn't give any attention to the casts.

I don't know a lot about WoW, but I heard they did include their own version of the mentor system recently.

In theory a mentor system is a really good thing. Sure you can find a lot of the info online with a quick search, but many people don't learn by just reading a guide or watching a video. Actually getting hands on experience with someone showing you the ropes can be of massive importance, especially in a complicated fight where they can point out exactly what you're doing wrong. Having actually present, human helpers also helps a lot for being able to explain things or answer direct followup questions. It might be easy to find a guide that tells you Do X To Beat Y, but what if you want to know why that works or what if you've tried that and it didn't work for you? What if you want to know what the next step is after Beating Y? A google search might not help much for that but an actual live person can.

The problem is, as others have pointed out, specifically applying special rewards to being a mentor. Having a crown icon, a mount and what is, for all intents and purposes, a special private chat channel, encourages people to just sign up and go through the motions. The requirements for being a mentor, and staying a mentor, are too lenient. If someone really wants to be a mentor they should have to do more than farm commedations, and if they want to stay a mentor they should undergo some form of actual review. It's a lot harder to do, yes, but it's necessary if they really want to have a designated mentor role.

As we type, there are people trying to get unsynced mentor clears on last expansion Extreme content. These people should not be mentors. What happens when they get that duty synced or are they going to continue to tell people not to queue for those duties so they don't have to worry about it?

I recall seeing WoW put in something that's basically being a mentor. https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/mentor...ld-of-warcraft

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Originally Posted by StriderShinryu

The problem is, as others have pointed out, specifically applying special rewards to being a mentor. Having a crown icon, a mount and what is, for all intents and purposes, a special private chat channel, encourages people to just sign up and go through the motions. The requirements for being a mentor, and staying a mentor, are too lenient. If someone really wants to be a mentor they should have to do more than farm commedations, and if they want to stay a mentor they should undergo some form of actual review. It's a lot harder to do, yes, but it's necessary if they really want to have a designated mentor role.

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And that's the problem. People who intend to do good already do. Add a system with some stupid reward or for e-peen folks to flex (more often with bad advice), you're gonna get exactly what's logically coming... which is exactly what happened when the mentor function was introduced and for years later. I don't know how it is now, but I can't imagine it's not the cesspool of stupid that it was before. A handful of sprouts getting actual help, while others are being flooded by mentors looking to flex or talk about stuff they shouldn't on the channel (e.g. spoilers). The average lot of mentors historically aren't very smart people.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

I recall seeing WoW put in something that's basically being a mentor. https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/mentor...ld-of-warcraft

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That's actually really funny and way too late. Might have been handy back in Cata.

Make the crown icon a watering can. You know, to water the sprouts.

Then only mentors who actually care about it will be proud to sport the icon.

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Originally Posted by AbysmalDuck

As we type, there are people trying to get unsynced mentor clears on last expansion Extreme content. These people should not be mentors. What happens when they get that duty synced or are they going to continue to tell people not to queue for those duties so they don't have to worry about it?

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I personally tell people if I don't remember/know the mechanics for a fight when I run mentor roulette. Usually it comes back to me as we do it, and I will explain them if needed. Though, I am missing a few extremes from the last two expansions because I just haven't had the drive to do them....so I haven't been able to do the roulette since sometime in Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Ah, another thread telling mentors precisely how they should volunteer their time.

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That's kind of the point, innit? If you don't want to be a mentor, don't be a mentor. It should be something people do because they want to do it. Because they want to be helpful. Not something for people to do for some arbitrary status symbol so they can jerk off about being mentors while telling everyone else "you don't pay for my sub, I owe you nothing".

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Originally Posted by Dewslam

That's kind of the point, innit? If you don't want to be a mentor, don't be a mentor. It should be something people do because they want to do it. Because they want to be helpful. Not something for people to do for some arbitrary status symbol so they can jerk off about being mentors while telling everyone else "you don't pay for my sub, I owe you nothing".

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Not really, mentors become mentors for as many reasons as there are mentors. Your or my reason to be a mentor don't need to be in alignment, nor do we need to be in alignment with any other mentor out there.

What other mentors do isn't my business -- or yours.

Square gets an opinion through GM response. No one else really matters.

Mentors are great in the servers I’ve been too. They’re helpful even when another mentor has a question. The Novice Network helps new players get out of their comfort zone by having shy sprouts eventually participate in the chat with one another. Some even make friends. Its a heart warming place.

Having the ability to ask a unique question in the NN is much faster than searching online. People usually jump in the answer anyone’s question. If NN wasn’t any good then why is it always packed with mentors? Obviously people enjoy the community.

Become a mentor.
Collect mentor rewards.
Drop mentorship status.

To get people mounts.

It's a fairly broken system, infamously so.

I mean, the nature of a mentor system is great because it's intended to guide players- and it works for a lot of mentors I know because they're willing to help out people.

I figure it's a system mainly targeted for people who goes out of their way to help others but can now have an extra incentive to do so. It's just a miss on the NA servers because people are pretty selfish here at times and only care about the reward and lose sight of the original reason. The capitalist mindset in NA is heavily based on the idea that "Time is money" and it shows in the community sometimes in an overzealous fashion. The other thing is that people will generally put in less effort as someone else who puts in more effort if it means they will get the same result. That's resultant toxic behavior due to many factors, but the society they live in has a very subtle but strong impact on the way these people treat others in the game.

In JP, the system works great, but that's also attributed to their culture influencing their community, and their decision to always put their best foot forward and be positive/nice (JP culture is really amazing in that regard). Basically put, it's the fault of the players that make the system seem bad, not the system itself is at fault.

I mean, this can also be reflected in NA and JP's Raid finder settings. JP uses the raid finder, but NA doesn't. NA only uses PF to selectively choose people.

At most, SE could only put some guidelines to follow to prevent the toxicity from continuing - ex: penalty for leaving duty, reportable offense if being held hostage in a duty, etc.

To be a burger king. Its quite nice.