SAM tweaks "I" would like to see.

Tweak 1: Remove Kaiten
Once gotten we only ever use this move on Higinbana, Goken, Midare, and now Nomakiri. And with all the melee mastery traits this patch you've proven you can add traits that just boost damage of skill.s

Tweak 2: Combine Iaijutsu and Tsubame-gaeshi
Since using any other weaponskill removes Tsubame this would consolidate 2 buttons, 3 if you remove Kaiten, into 1. And SAM now has a lot of buttons.

Tweak 3: Combine Ikishoten and Ogi Namakiri
Again just more button consolidation. I don't know if there is a rotation where you hold Namakiri until you can Ikishoten a 2nd time to get 2 Namakiri but I feel this would really help us controller players.

Tweak 4: Remove Kenki cost of Gyoten and Yaten
I don't care if you have to lower the potency of them all the way to 1 or remove it entirely or remove the enhanced Enpi effect or all together. I just want to be able to move around without having to worry about weather I have Kenki or not.

Again these are just things I would want. Thanks for reading :)

I disagree with removing Kaiten. Keeping enough gauge to use Kaiten on time is apart of playing SAM.

I don't care either way about the gapclosers, but if the kenki is removed, then I'd like for them to deal no damage, like RPR's.

I agree that SAM has too many buttons. I don't see a reason why Ikishoten and Namikiri, or Iaijutsu and Tsubame, can't share buttons. Namikiri is only ever usable after using Ikishoten, and the buff doesn't last long enough to use it again before it drops.

Also, there's no reason for Shoha2 to exist. Why isn't this just a trait to upgrade Shoha1 into AoE? This is even worse bloat than Shoha1 was at the start of Shadowbringers.

Like the poster above, I believe Kaiten has a lot of value in the rotation. It makes kenki into something more to think about than "burn it as you get it."
As far as concatenating tsubame and ogi with iaijutsu and ikishoten respectively...honestly I can get behind that. As it is Ogi turns into Kaeshi Namikiri, so I Iki > Ogi > Kaeshi and Iai > Kaeshi seem like good button mergers.

I have to disagree about Kaiten giving you more to think about. The only difference between it being there and not being there is that you wait till you have 35 Kenki to use Shinten rather than 25 Kenki. But to each their own I guess :)

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Tweak 1: Remove Kaiten

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I'd rather not. It flows well, is about the final component keeping the Kenki gauge relevant now that Guren/Senei cost 25, and the last thing I'd want is just less Kenki or even more Shinten spam, especially now that Seigan is gone.

Just remove the ability to reapply it while it's already active.

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Tweak 2: Combine Iaijutsu and Tsubame-gaeshi

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This would take more than the typical button-consolidation behavior or you wouldn't be able to track Tsubame-Gaeshi. I'd prefer they be consolidated only for so long as one doesn't manually put Tsubame-Gaeshi on their bars (at which point they split) and that it show the CD for Tsubame-Gaeshi even while revealing (and not darkening even on TG cooldown) the readied Iaijutsu.

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Combine Ikishoten and Ogi Namakiri

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Yes, definitely.

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Tweak 4: Remove Kenki cost of Gyoten and Yaten

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No. They are clearly attacks. They don't need the Thunderclap treatment. And they cost you only 8 potency (Shinten has an efficiency of 10.8 potency per Kenki, vs. GT/YT's 10.0).

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I have to disagree about Kaiten giving you more to think about. The only difference between it being there and not being there is that you wait till you have 35 Kenki to use Shinten rather than 25 Kenki. But to each their own I guess :)

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The difference is from Shoha. It increases the value of each Iaijutsu by 193.3 potency (or 66.7n for Shoha II), but that potency does not scale with Kaiten. This can give some very niche situations by which a normally inferior choice of Iaijutsu may be worth rushing out without Kaiten (since the Kaiten on them wouldn't be as efficient as Shinten) in order to finish off your Meditation stacks, such as before a boss jump for which you could Meditate back to full.

honestly just want some potency buffs here and there
either third eye last 5 second to be a little more comfy to use
or just rework it into swift cast+kaiten skill for SAM

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Originally Posted by Duskane

either third eye last 5 second to be a little more comfy to use

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That would kind of defeat the point of being a precisely timed defensive, no?

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or just rework it into swift cast+kaiten skill for SAM

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What in the what now? A free alt-Kaiten available every 15 seconds would be both broken and convoluted, all while again defeating the point of being rewarded for awareness of the timing of raid damage.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That would kind of defeat the point of being a precisely timed defensive, no?

What in the what now? A free alt-Kaiten available every 15 seconds would be both broken and convoluted, all while again defeating the point of being rewarded for awareness of the timing of raid damage.

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nah id expect the timer to be extended to a 60 second CD or something if it got reworked like that

but I just find third eye a little annoying to weave in sometimes due to its tight timing thats all

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

This would take more than the typical button-consolidation behavior or you wouldn't be able to track Tsubame-Gaeshi. I'd prefer they be consolidated only for so long as one doesn't manually put Tsubame-Gaeshi on their bars (at which point they split) and that it show the CD for Tsubame-Gaeshi even while revealing (and not darkening even on TG cooldown) the readied Iaijutsu.

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Hadn't thought about the fact Tsubame has charges. Perhaps they should lower the potency of it and just make a combo you can do all the time if there were to consolidate it. Tho I'm guessing they wont.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

either third eye last 5 second to be a little more comfy to use
or just rework it into swift cast+kaiten skill for SAM

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lol. Even with it now just giving you 10 Kenki I still forget to use it.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

That would kind of defeat the point of being a precisely timed defensive, no?

What in the what now? A free alt-Kaiten available every 15 seconds would be both broken and convoluted, all while again defeating the point of being rewarded for awareness of the timing of raid damage.

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I'm not advocating that we tie Third Eye into Kaiten at all, but Third Eye just doesn't feel good to use. Latency can screw you out of actually parrying anything, and with Seigan gone it feels like we've been left with half a skill that's only there because "hey look, Sekiro parry button." FFXIV isn't an action combat game, trying to make it play like one for one job for thematic reasons just isn't working. It was bad enough when Merciful Eyes got nerfed so hard that everyone took it off their bars. We could've kept Seigan as a transforming button like Ogi Namikiri/Kaeshi Namikiri is now.

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Originally Posted by Theodric_Thorne

I'm not advocating that we tie Third Eye into Kaiten at all, but Third Eye just doesn't feel good to use.

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I'd have to disagree. I don't think a single extra second of duration would kill what's satisfying to me about the skill, but it's relatively sharp timing and the versatile reward does, to me, make it feel quite good to use.

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Latency can screw you out of actually parrying anything, and with Seigan gone it feels like we've been left with half a skill that's only there because "hey look, Sekiro parry button."

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Having played around 180 ms for quite a while, it's always seemed that latency never shortened duration, only forced you to cast earlier. Your skill will start later, but also therefore last until later.

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We could've kept Seigan as a transforming button like Ogi Namikiri/Kaeshi Namikiri is now.

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Which would then mean you have no AoE spending option for Third Eye's reward unless Seigan were reworked to a cleave, which would still leave slightly less agency than just letting you spend its reward towards any Kenki skill of your chooosing (Kaiten, Shinten, Kyuten, Guren, or Senei).

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Tweak 1: Remove Kaiten
Once gotten we only ever use this move on Higinbana, Goken, Midare, and now Nomakiri. And with all the melee mastery traits this patch you've proven you can add traits that just boost damage of skill.s

Tweak 2: Combine Iaijutsu and Tsubame-gaeshi
Since using any other weaponskill removes Tsubame this would consolidate 2 buttons, 3 if you remove Kaiten, into 1. And SAM now has a lot of buttons.

Tweak 3: Combine Ikishoten and Ogi Namakiri
Again just more button consolidation. I don't know if there is a rotation where you hold Namakiri until you can Ikishoten a 2nd time to get 2 Namakiri but I feel this would really help us controller players.

Tweak 4: Remove Kenki cost of Gyoten and Yaten
I don't care if you have to lower the potency of them all the way to 1 or remove it entirely or remove the enhanced Enpi effect or all together. I just want to be able to move around without having to worry about weather I have Kenki or not.

Again these are just things I would want. Thanks for reading :)

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Kaiten is fine the way it is. It gives meaningful management to the kenki bar, plus this games GCD is way too long and oGCD's make the long GCD bearable.

As for the rest....I guess? I dunno. I personally don't think SAM as "a lot of buttons" and I'm not a fan of merging a bunch of skills into single buttons. Pressing 1 button over and over again like in pvp isn't enjoyable.