I FOUND IT! 3420 is the Perception you want for your MIN/BTN retainers!

I have done some work on testing retainer stats requirement for extra yield. Here are my results:

Gathering Retainers (MIN or BTN)
(Gathering/Perception)
3010/2935 = lvl 83 30 pieces, but lvl 84 20 pieces
3018/3016 = lvl 84 30 pieces, but lvl 85 20 pieces
3018/3076 = lvl 85 30 pieces, but lvl 86 20 pieces
2995/3175 = lvl 86 30 pieces, but lvl 87 20 pieces
2995/3195 = lvl 86 30 pieces, but lvl 87 20 pieces
2995/3201 = lvl 86 30 pieces, but lvl 87 20 pieces
2995/3215 = lvl 87 30 pieces, but lvl 88 20 pieces
2995/3261 = lvl 87 30 pieces, but lvl 88 20 pieces
2935/3306 = lvl 88 30 pieces, but lvl 89 20 pieces
2935/3377 = lvl 89 30 pieces, but lvl 90 20 pieces
2935/3411 = lvl 89 30 pieces, but lvl 90 20 pieces
2935/3417 = lvl 89 30 pieces, but lvl 90 20 pieces
2935/3419 = lvl 89 30 pieces, but lvl 90 20 pieces
2935/3420 = lvl 90 30 pieces!!!
2935/3435 = lvl 90 30 pieces!!!

So the MAGIC NUMBER is 3420 Perception!!!
Gathering has no impact to that extra yield once you got pass the Gathering requirement stated on the item list when you do your ventures. So ZERO melds of gathering on your lvl 90 gear!

In terms of the melds required to achieve 3420 Perception, you don't need any Grade 9 / 10 materia at all. I used PURELY Grade 8 or lower to achieve that amount. Some light overmelds were needed. But most gear just need 1 overmeld (with the exception of the hat and offhand).

Below are my melds on my retainer:
https://i.imgur.com/PkARkpj.png
MH & OH required 1 overmeld using Grade 8. OH needed a 2nd overmeld using Grade 7.

https://i.imgur.com/HGXzxMo.png
Hat is not maxed. One could have added even more perception there if need.
Chest, gloves and pants are all maxed on Perception with the above melds.
Shoes could have added 1 more perception. But actually, we don't need that much here... I could have used a Grade 5 instead of a Grade 6 for that overmeld. There will be 5 perception less, but you can see from below that I have 3425 from these melds. So -5 is still fine.

https://i.imgur.com/u8n9PPz.png
I used Grade 7 for all my overmelds here, but one could have used Grade 6, which is even stronger. I just didn't have enough Grade 6 for overmelds. If you have a lot of Grade 6, you could use that instead, and that will give you a boost of 2 more perception per accessory. That extra 10 perception you gain using Grade 6 would allow you to subtract 10 perception from somewhere else.

https://i.imgur.com/YFRYLIj.png
Here's my final retainer stats from the melds above. Note that I could reduce 5 perception from somewhere, and it would have been fine.

https://i.imgur.com/faDh624.png
This is just to show that I could have used this meld instead to reduce 5 perception.

https://i.imgur.com/HwsgvEu.png
This is just to show that I could have used Grade 6 instead on all my accessories' overmelds, and I would have 2 more perception per accessory.

https://i.imgur.com/3tUE7si.png
Finally, if you run out of Grade 7 / 8 materia, you can always get more from Qitari Beast Tribe vendor using those tokens. It's a good way to utilize those old tokens!

As for Battle Retainers, I do not know that much. All I know is ilvl 555 will give 12 pieces of lvl 86 mats, 10 pieces of lvl 88 mats and 7 pieces of lvl 89 mat. Good luck testing these! :)

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EDIT on 2023-01-26:
Patch 6.3 Retainer Stats Threshold Test Results on Post #19:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6173552

Copied post below:
It's Patch 6.31 now. Today, I have experimentally tested and confirmed the following retainer stats in the game:
https://i.imgur.com/GbLikbc.png

Honestly, unless you regularly use a lot of Alien Onions, it's NOT worthwhile to go as high as 4107 perception (probably just need 4104 as Silverbane has suggested above from prediction) on your retainers. It takes almost a full set of i620 Indagator's gear with very strong overmelds. It burned out a lot of my materia stashes just to confirm this.

4020 perception is worthwhile if you wanna gather 50 pieces of Chondrite/Integral Log per run. It takes at least 2 pieces of i620 Indagator's gear as well as both Indagator's mainhand and offhand tools with Grade 10 materia overmelds to achieve this much perception.

Meanwhile, 3687 perception is very achievable with a mixed combination of i560s, i590 Pactmaker's and i620 Indagator's gear, with reasonable melds.

Personally, I have 1 retainer currently >4020, and all other retainers >3687.

We love you Caimie! Thank you for all you've done for the gathering and crafting communities.

Data on Fisher Retainers:

2320 perception:
15 lvl 83 Spiny King Crab
12 lvl 84 Dream Pickle
7 lvl 86 Protomyke #987
12 lvl 87 Grey Mullet
9 lvl 88 Shallows Cod
9 lvl 88 Rummy-nosed Tetra

2342 perception:
15 lvl 83 Spiny King Crab
15 lvl 84 Dream Pickle
7 lvl 86 Protomyke #987
12 lvl 87 Grey Mullet
9 lvl 88 Shallows Cod
9 lvl 88 Rummy-nosed Tetra

2362 perception:
15 lvl 83 Spiny King Crab
15 lvl 84 Dream Pickle
7 lvl 86 Protomyke #987
12 lvl 87 Grey Mullet
12 lvl 88 Shallows Cod
12 lvl 88 Rummy-nosed Tetra

... So the optimal perception appears to be somewhere between 2343 and 2362. Once again, just need Grade 8 or lower materia. No Grade 9 / 10 materia needed.

Thanks for all your hard work!

Update for battle retainers:
570 is giving 15 items on level 88 (Ophiotaurus Hide/Berkanan Sap) and 12 on level 89 (Dynamis Crystal). I'm going to guess that 580 will be the goal to get 15 on the Dynamis Crystal.

Thanks Jojoya

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Update for battle retainers:
570 is giving 15 items on level 88 (Ophiotaurus Hide/Berkanan Sap) and 12 on level 89 (Dynamis Crystal). I'm going to guess that 580 will be the goal to get 15 on the Dynamis Crystal.

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Awesome! Thanks, Jojoya! :)
Now that means there's a reason to craft a few i580 if I wanna boost my retainers a bit!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caimie_Tsukino

2342 perception:
15 lvl 83 Spiny King Crab
15 lvl 84 Dream Pickle
7 lvl 86 Protomyke #987
12 lvl 87 Grey Mullet
9 lvl 88 Shallows Cod
9 lvl 88 Rummy-nosed Tetra

2362 perception:
15 lvl 83 Spiny King Crab
15 lvl 84 Dream Pickle
7 lvl 86 Protomyke #987
12 lvl 87 Grey Mullet
12 lvl 88 Shallows Cod
12 lvl 88 Rummy-nosed Tetra

.

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Does this not imply that you need More than 2362 Perception? I’d expect 15 fish for the last two, not a cap at 12.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Does this not imply that you need More than 2362 Perception? I’d expect 15 fish for the last two, not a cap at 12.

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Oh, you're right. I wasn't thinking straight. But i have no intention of adding any more Perception, as I have pretty much hit the ceiling with Grade 7/8 materia. If I want anymore perception, I would need to remeld the mainhand, and overmeld with Grade 10/9. Not worth my materia to do this test.

Thanks for all the hard work put into this!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Update for battle retainers:
570 is giving 15 items on level 88 (Ophiotaurus Hide/Berkanan Sap) and 12 on level 89 (Dynamis Crystal). I'm going to guess that 580 will be the goal to get 15 on the Dynamis Crystal.

---

571 gets 12 of the level 89 items.
574 gets 15 of the level 89 items.

580 is not necessary. Unfortunately I did not have gear to try to narrow the 15 items/venture for level 89 items further.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

571 gets 12 of the level 89 items.
574 gets 15 of the level 89 items.

580 is not necessary. Unfortunately I did not have gear to try to narrow the 15 items/venture for level 89 items further.

---

I finally got some extra pieces to toss on my retainer and 573 is the point where a retainer will bring back 15 Dynamis Crystals (572 was still 12).

Inspired by Caimie Tsukino's work, I extended it by crafting some Pactmaster MH and OH for my retainers. Here's how it changed where the amounts returned shift from 50 to 40 and from 40 to 30s:

Old Chondrite MH/OH
Gath 2935 Perc 3420
50 -> 40 @ Lv 83 Palm Log -> Cucumber
40 -> 30 @ Lv 86 Carrot of Happiness -> Iron Wood log

Chondrite MH
New OH w/ no Overmeld (Guile X)
Gath 2994 Perc 3504
50 -> 40 Lv 84 Eblan Lentils -> Beets
40 -> 30 Lv 87 Scarlet Moko -> Giant Popota

New MH w/ no Overmeld (Guile X)
New OH w/ no Overmeld (Guile X)
Gath 3097 Perc 3527
50 -> 40 Lv 84 Eblan Lentils -> Beets
40 -> 30 Lv 87 Scarlet Moko -> Giant Popota

Chondrite MH
New OH w/ one Overmeld (Guile X, X)
Gath 2994 Perc 3529
50 -> 40 Lv 84 Eblan Lentils -> Beets
40 -> 30 Lv 87 Scarlet Moko -> Giant Popota

Chondrite MH
New OH w/ two Overmeld (Guile X, X, IX)
Gath 2994 Perc 3543
50 -> 40 Lv 84 Eblan Lentils -> Beets
40 -> 30 Lv 88 Sykon -> Sideritis Leaves

New MH w/ no Overmeld (Guile X)
New OH w/ two Overmeld (Guile X, X, IX)
Gath 3097 Perc 3570
50 -> 40 Lv 84 Eblan Lentils -> Beets
40 -> 30 Lv 88 Sykon -> Sideritis Leaves

New MH w/ one Overmeld (Guile X, X)
New OH w/ two Overmeld (Guile X, X, IX)
Gath 3097 Perc 3595
50 -> 40 Lv 84 Eblan Lentils -> Beets
40 -> 30 Lv 88 Sykon -> Sideritis Leaves

New MH w/ two Overmeld (Guile X, X, IX)
New OH w/ two Overmeld (Guile X, X, IX)
Gath 3097 Perc 3609
50 -> 40 Lv 85 Snow Flax -> Carrots of Happiness
40 -> 30 Lv 89 Elder Nutmeg Seeds -> Integral Logs

My wife is in the process of crafting entire Pactmaster gear sets for her retainers.
I'll keep you posted on what results that leads to, but I'm not sure getting 10 more Alien Onions per venture makes sense as an investment from an ROI perspective. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

Inspired by Caimie Tsukino's work, I extended it by crafting some Pactmaster MH and OH for my retainers. Here's how it changed where the amounts returned shift from 50 to 40 and from 40 to 30s:

---

Your work is the real inspiring one! I didn't even noticed the timing factor! Thanks for the info!

Results for higher Perception numbers:

Gath 3097 Perc 3692
50 -> 40 Lv 86 -- 50 Carrots of Happiness, 40 Ironwood Logs
40 -> 30 Lv 89 -- 40 Elder Nutmeg Seeds, 30 Integral Logs

Gath 3097 Perc 3717
50 -> 40 Lv 86 -- 50 Carrots of Happiness, 40 Ironwood Logs
40 -> 30 Lv 90 -- 40 AR-Caean Cotton Boll, 30 Alien Onions

Gath 3097 Perc 3734
Same as 3717

The 3717 number my wife achieved with just a few single overmelds of her Pactmaker MH/OH/left-hand side and L89 right-hand side. I think if I was starting from scratch, I'd go straight to her gear setup instead of using the L89 MH/OH/left-hand -- it might save money by requiring less overmelds.

I am probably going to wait until the final gear set to upgrade my retainer gear beyond the MH and OH tools. But it would be interesting to know how much Perception is needed to get 50 Alien Onion per venture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

But it would be interesting to know how much Perception is needed to get 50 Alien Onion per venture.

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4104 Perception for 50 Alien Onions per venture.
3762 to get 40.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

4104 Perception for 50 Alien Onions per venture.
3762 to get 40.

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BTW, these numbers were not determined experimentally, but were taken from the Garland Tools database:

https://www.garlandtools.org/db/#item/36097

There you can find the yield-vs-perception data in the "Ventures" section of "Sources and Uses" for an item, if that item can be obtained via a mining or botany venture.

The maximum perception possible in the current best gathering gear is 3874 (without food), so at present, it is impossible to get 50 Alien onions from one venture.

Greetings, fellow gatherers and crafters! :)

It's Patch 6.31 now. Today, I have experimentally tested and confirmed the following retainer stats in the game:
https://i.imgur.com/GbLikbc.png

Honestly, unless you regularly use a lot of Alien Onions, it's NOT worthwhile to go as high as 4107 perception (probably just need 4104 as Silverbane has suggested above from prediction) on your retainers. It takes almost a full set of i620 Indagator's gear with very strong overmelds. It burned out a lot of my materia stashes just to confirm this.

4020 perception is worthwhile if you wanna gather 50 pieces of Chondrite/Integral Log per run. It takes at least 2 pieces of i620 Indagator's gear as well as both Indagator's mainhand and offhand tools with Grade 10 materia overmelds to achieve this much perception.

Meanwhile, 3687 perception is very achievable with a mixed combination of i560s, i590 Pactmaker's and i620 Indagator's gear, with reasonable melds.

Personally, I have 1 retainer currently >4020, and all other retainers >3687.

Wow. :o I have to see what this does for fisher :)

Is there a reason that people don’t trust the breakpoints as given in Garland Tools? They seem to be extremely accurate (perhaps even datamined) and have been available since around expansion launch so I wouldn’t be excited about burning through stacks of materia to double-check them myself. Have they been found to contain errors or be unreliable?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EorzeaWanderer

Is there a reason that people don’t trust the breakpoints as given in Garland Tools? They seem to be extremely accurate (perhaps even datamined) and have been available since around expansion launch so I wouldn’t be excited about burning through stacks of materia to double-check them myself. Have they been found to contain errors or be unreliable?

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Surely Garland Tools are as accurate as they can be. But these stats were clearly unachievable around expansion launch. So ultimately they were just predictions until someone actually tested them to confirm them. And by actual testing, one can also determine how achievable (and profitable) it is.

The thresholds I listed here are very useful for myself. I look at any MIN/BTN retainer of mine, check on its gear and its perception level, and then look at the table, and notes I wrote above, and I will have a pretty good idea whether I want to perform "an upgrade" or not. Because I can somewhat judge how much effort and gil I need to put in to perform a meaningful/impactful upgrade. The table above is basically a guide for "investment vs return" if one knows how to utilize it! Having a Garland Tools website just doesn't seem to do that for me... Is there no one who feel the same here?

Having Garland Tools is similar to having a MooMoo app for buying stocks. It is a very powerful and sophisticated app. But I'd rather having some extra guidelines to tell me what kind of capital I need to achieve certain amounts of earnings when buying certain stocks... They are just not the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deveryn

Wow. :o I have to see what this does for fisher :)

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Please let me know too! Thanks! :)

2660 Gathering, 2556 Perception Fishing retainer :
L86 : 9 fish
L87 : 15 fish
L88 : 12 fish

2660 Gathering, 2561 Perception :
L86 : 9 fish
L87 : 15 fish
L88 : 15 fish

Sadly, there are no higher level targeted fishing Ventures to look at. All of the open slots in my (DoL) retainer gear are getting the 25 Perception materia, but I am not overmelding any retainer gear. I’m still in the process of making Indagator gear for my retainers; I have yet to make the Pants or Body pieces (retainers still have i560 gear in those slots) and the old gear pieces have at most T8 materia in them, not T10, as I knew I’d be pulling the materia out of the old gear when I replaced it.

I have 2403 perception on my fishing retainer and it's bringing back 7 L86 and 12 beyond that.

I did Indigator left side (no materia yet), pact rod and ophio right with +25 perception in each.

I'm holding off on dumping more into this with the limited uses for the fish.

I just stumbled upon this chart that shows how much perception I need for various tiers. Just wanted to give a "thanks" to the OP for going through all that effort to verify all the tiers. I was just working on two more retainers and it was a boon to get extra yield at 90. And here I thought 20 was the cap.

Was able to get my retainers all 4020 spending almost nothing
Indagator's Helmet and Boots plus both weapons are the pieces that will need a bit of overmelding but only to the 3rd meld, helmet to the 4th but with cheap old melds.
The rest of the left side you can either use 590 Pactmaker's or just buy the new Purple scrip gear, didn't need to overmelding that.
560 Ophiotauroskin all right side is incredibly easy to craft, only 2 of the pieces need a single overmeld each.

6.4 is annoying.

Anyone know what Perception is needed for 50/8’s for level 90 items? 4072 Perception is insufficient for 50 Raw Star Quartz, or 8 of anything Ilmenite and lower on the list.

EDIT :

Ok, just took one of my Mining Retainers and MAXED Perception out. Got to 4235 Perception. Not everything required pentamelding, but everything that took it got it. Body, Hands, Legs, Feet, and right side accessories could meld to max Perception. MH, OH, Head could not reach the item’s Perception cap even with all 5 melds used.

Level 90 Raw Stone Quartz maxes out at 50/hour.
Level 90 Stoneheard Water, Lunar Adamantite Ore, Rhodium Sand, Rime Dolomite, Raw Eblan Danburite max out at 9/hr.
Level 90 Ilmenite, Raw Rutilated Quartz, Ash Diatomite cap out at 7/hr. I suspect that these would also hit 8/hr then 9/hr if there was enough Perception available to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

6.4 is annoying.

Anyone know what Perception is needed for 50/8’s for level 90 items? 4072 Perception is insufficient for 50 Raw Star Quartz, or 8 of anything Ilmenite and lower on the list.

EDIT :

Ok, just took one of my Mining Retainers and MAXED Perception out. Got to 4235 Perception. Not everything required pentamelding, but everything that took it got it. Body, Hands, Legs, Feet, and right side accessories could meld to max Perception. MH, OH, Head could not reach the item’s Perception cap even with all 5 melds used.

Level 90 Raw Stone Quartz maxes out at 50/hour.
Level 90 Stoneheard Water, Lunar Adamantite Ore, Rhodium Sand, Rime Dolomite, Raw Eblan Danburite max out at 9/hr.
Level 90 Ilmenite, Raw Rutilated Quartz, Ash Diatomite cap out at 7/hr. I suspect that these would also hit 8/hr then 9/hr if there was enough Perception available to do so.

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Hi Roth,

If you check out my first post's update back in January, I had added the following chart:
https://i.imgur.com/GbLikbc.png

I had tested it to be 4107 back then :)

So you were right that 4072 was not enough, and 4235 was enough (at least for Raw Star Quartz)!

I don’t see myself melding my other miner or my botanists to that degree. It depends on just how lucrative the fourth Workshop makes the Island Sanctuary.

I’m actually a bit miffed that the best gear melded to the max does not allow bringing back the maximum of everything. Those timed nodes only coming in at 7/hr is annoying compared to the 9/hr of the other timed nodes.

Is good folks here findings out all this info. Can helps peoples who rely on retainers for supplies. As for Mao, all Mao retainers used for is quicks explorations. All new mats can't be harvested by retainers so Mao has to go out and fetch thems by Mao self. Mao sad.

Was it confirmed if gear affects Quick Ventures?

As far as I know …

Gear has a huge impact on Ventures, Quick or otherwise.

Ilevel is the stat for combat retainers.
Gathering and Perception are the stats for DoL retainers. Gathering is a minimum to gather the item, Perception for additional amount returned. It USED TO BE that Gathering controlled all that and Perception affected how much came back HQ, but that changed with Endwalker.

It is unknown whether Gathering, Perception, or both is used for Quick Ventures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

It is unknown whether Gathering, Perception, or both is used for Quick Ventures.

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IMHO only level and iL affect quick ventures. And many returns aren't affected at all.

Not for DoL retainers, no.

It USED to be Gathering, but that was back when Gathering affected how many items a DoL retainer brought back on a targeted Venture, and Perception affected how many of them were HQ. With the cahnge to “no more gathered HQ mats, and Perception affects how many a DoL retainer brings back” I don’t know whether Gathering, Perception, or both play a part in a DoL’s Quick Venture. The one thing I do know is that ilevel is only used for combat retainers, not gathering retainers.