Healers, not required. (EW SPOILERS)

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qL4y1J7Mh
(EX Trial 1)

Healers are no longer required in some of the supposedly hardest content in the game.

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1qL4y1J7Mh
(EX Trial 1)

Healers are no longer required in some of the supposedly hardest content in the game.

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Good riddance!

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Originally Posted by FrogDog

Good riddance!

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Yeah, screw em. We don't need those players anyway.

EX....hardest content in the game....wat

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

Yeah, screw em. We don't need those players anyway.

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Well, players have this notion that healing is hard and requires skill.

While that might once have been true, healing has been baby-fied into one button press for full HP job ever since ShB. Yet people still complain that healing gives them teh anxioteh and "single pull plz", and those are the players Yoshi-P and the dev team listen to the most and thus keep dumbifying the job even more and making fights easier and giving you Ultra Echo.

So indeed if they get removed good riddance. Just turn them into another DPS class and have everyone be responsible for their own Hp, it would make it all the more easier for being able to tell who to invite for raids and who not.

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Originally Posted by Kyrj

EX....hardest content in the game....wat

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"some of"

I knew there was gonna be at least one of you.

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

Yeah, screw em. We don't need those players anyway.

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You and I seem to agree on so much.

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Well, players have this notion that healing is hard and requires skill.

While that might once have been true, healing has been baby-fied into one button press for full HP job ever since ShB. Yet people still complain that healing gives them teh anxioteh and "single pull plz", and those are the players Yoshi-P and the dev team listen to the most and thus keep dumbifying the job even more and making fights easier and giving you Ultra Echo.

So indeed if they get removed good riddance. Just turn them into another DPS class and have everyone be responsible for their own Hp, it would make it all the more easier for being able to tell who to invite for raids and who not.

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It's almost like they designed the role for people who don't even want to play it in the first place, huh.

Yeah just remove the role entirely, no point in actually putting any real effort in improving what we already have and no point in providing feedback. It's not like most MMO's have healers anyway.

Dancer fans who wanted the job to be a healer rejoice.

Inb4 the gut Curing Waltz next expac. :p

y'all mind keeping the wallowing self pity in the healer forum where it belongs? kthnxbye.

that trial blows chunks anyway
heres your trial guide
follow the leader
tank swap
you've cleared

we've had ults and savages cleared with only tanks
red dps and green dps not required

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Originally Posted by OtakuSempai

Yeah just remove the role entirely, no point in actually putting any real effort in improving what we already have and no point in providing feedback.

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That ship has long sailed. The dev's mind is clearly already made in regards to which direction they want to take the healer role and it will only get worse and worse with each expansion. Better to cut your loses and pull the bandaid off now.

so are people wise up yet? Remember those threads 3 weeks about how it's harder to heal now or healer are broken yada yada. You know ... the kind of thread that people make at the beginning of every single expack and just never seem to remember how it went?

Now, people properly geared up, no longer eat mechanic or tank the floor, healing is as easy as it ever be. Frankly it's so potent now that in Ex if I have to cast a GCG heal, it's not because the contents need healing, just the group playing badly.

I solo 24 current content as a warrior from 47%. Dps and healers are not needed

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Originally Posted by Brandedblade

y'all mind keeping the wallowing self pity in the healer forum where it belongs? kthnxbye.

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Meteion is spreading it, I swear!!!!

Don't kill off healing SE. I've always liked playing healing or support. FFXIV doesn't have a true support role like BRD, RDM or COR like in FFXI so I'm stuck with healer. With how many jobs FFXIV has they could honestly make a "support" group out of the existing jobs and a couple of well placed ones in xpacs. I'd like to see it, but not holding my breath either.

For there not being healers required, there sure is a lot of healing in that video.

Jokes aside, this isn't uncommon in any game. People do weird things for a challenge and for fun. All Paladin runs, all Gunbreaker and Warrior runs, etc. Just shows if you can follow the mechanics perfectly, which sadly 99.99999175 of players cannot, you take less damage. What this is showing is perhaps certain tanks have too much healing.

EX isn't the hardest content though. You don't even see 8 thanks clearing E12S, least when it was relevant so....yeah healers are needed to some extent.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Just shows if you can follow the mechanics perfectly, which sadly 99.99999175 of players cannot, you take less damage.

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There's this thing called latency, and focus for a lot of us you know. We can know the mechanics perfectly, and still not move fast enough, or know them ahead of time and move but be more focused on trying to hit the combo for damage and in the fleeting moment forget.

I'm sorry most of us don't have the perfect eidetic memory, hand-eye coordination and internet setup you elitists call for.

Thankfully the devs understand NOT EVERYONE HAS THE REACTIONARY SKILLS OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE THEIR LIVES ON CALL OF DUTY.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

There's this thing called latency, and focus for a lot of us you know. We can know the mechanics perfectly, and still not move fast enough, or know them ahead of time and move but be more focused on trying to hit the combo for damage and in the fleeting moment forget.

I'm sorry most of us don't have the perfect eidetic memory, hand-eye coordination and internet setup you elitists call for.

Thankfully the devs understand NOT EVERYONE HAS THE REACTIONARY SKILLS OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE THEIR LIVES ON CALL OF DUTY.

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latency had nothing to do with it, since you want to get snarky. I've had to play from Australia visiting friends, and once was used to the delay, had no issues.

Finally, I was simply staying that some play this way, that most of us do not, encompassing myself. I need 5-10 practice groups to get mechanics down.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

latency had nothing to do with it, since you want to get snarky. I've had to play from Australia visiting friends, and once was used to the delay, had no issues.

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So glad it works for you. I see an AOE, and I'm out of it ON MY SCREEN, and still get hit. This happens dozens of times to more people than just me. And if you pre-emptively move, before you see the AOE, then you can get hit by a different attack or forget to hit your combo.

Dunno about the rest of you but I still look at my hotbar when fighting, I have not and probably will not memorize the buttons to where I don't have to. (Summoner was muscle memory but not new summoner and reaper is a definite no for muscle memory.)

Those people expecting this are elitests and way less than the number you gave.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

So glad it works for you. I see an AOE, and I'm out of it ON MY SCREEN, and still get hit. This happens dozens of times to more people than just me. And if you pre-emptively move, before you see the AOE, then you can get hit by a different attack or forget to hit your combo.

Dunno about the rest of you but I still look at my hotbar when fighting, I have not and probably will not memorize the buttons to where I don't have to. (Summoner was muscle memory but not new summoner.)

Those people expecting this are elitests and way less than the number you gave.

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Your inability does not make others elitist. You've just not found a ui setup that works for you, and your refusal to adapt to your latency is on you. If you know you'll be hit even after you move, move sooner, that simple.

There is a reason people make and join practice groups like I do, to learn these things.

This isn't anything new. People beat savage fights back in SHB without healers either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdDxjXMMWgU

EX1 in EW places almost all of its unavoidable damage in literally two attacks: The bleed AOE & the multi stack marker, both of which are staggered out heavily between uses meaning there's huge amount of time for all the CDs that make no healer possible to recharge. Outside of those two attacks there's like, zero unavoidable AOE damage, it's no surprise it can be done without healers. Try it in something like, EX2 where there's two uses of the multi-stack marker within like, 45s-60s of each other, or extremely rapid, high-impact full raid wide damage happening.

If anything, the video showcases just how important balancing fight design is with the amount of extra tools they've given non-healers.

Not to mention...you honestly think any random PUG/PF would be able to co-ordinate this level of mitigation planning where anything missing is basically a wipe? (watch how close they get to dying every stack)
No healer challenges will always be for the high end players who are bored. At least one healer will be mandatory for 99.9% of groups.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Your inability does not make others elitist. You've just not found a ui setup that works for you, and your refusal to adapt to your latency is on you. If you know you'll be hit even after you move, move sooner, that simple.

There is a reason people make and join practice groups like I do, to learn these things.

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...I'm done with you.

This is why the devs don't cater to your kind.

What is the point of this thread honestly? If it is to brag about it, that is good and congratulations, if it is to say that healer role are useless than in my understanding, Healer role are there to mitigate damage or heal hp and help dps ing when no one need it, having them is an assurance, but you can enter any instance with whatever class you want, all 8 dps or all 8 tank or solo it in probably 4 years or less from now

Ah it's the chinese gamers. Carry on.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

...I'm done with you.

This is why the devs don't cater to your kind.

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You act and imply I'm some sort of hardcore raider, when in just a casual player. Funny thing is, the developers do cater to players like myself. Fail mechanics, punished with death debuff eventually after stacking damage debuffs.

You think it offensive that I do practice runs apparently before entering farm groups, not realizing the game isn't about just you, since when you screw up, you punish everyone else.

Know what differs between us? I respect other people's time by not wasting it and playing as well as I can, you make excuses.

"no healers required"

take away second wind, curing waltz, bloodbath, clemency and bloodwhetting. if we don't need healers, we don't need healing actions.

oh wait...

edit: let's also not forget this is a premade that knows what they're doing. half of my own datacenter would be helpless without healers in the party.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

"no healers required"

take away second wind, curing waltz, bloodbath, clemency and bloodwhetting. if we don't need healers, we don't need healing actions.

oh wait...

edit: let's also not forget this is a premade that knows what they're doing. half of my own datacenter would be helpless without healers in the party.

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Pretty much this. They chain farmed it for accessories and just wanted to try something fun and challenging for the heck of it.

I mean people have been doing this since HW. I remember man mode Zurvan ex vividly.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

that trial blows chunks anyway
heres your trial guide
follow the leader
tank swap
you've cleared

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That's pretty much my first clear: Follow the marked player
Done.

It is quite ironic how Squeenix fails to design proper Healer and Tank Jobs, and yet have the audacity to say "do some Devs even play their own Games?"

There are ALOT of ways to fix the issues on both Healers and Tanks. Everyone here who has experienced multiple MMOs in his life, knows that normally, Specialist Roles such as Healers and Tanks, arent suppoest to be generalized down to the bare bones.

- I think its stupid Game design that every Job has Party Utilities that should normally be in the hands if Healer and Support classes (like Bard, DNC and RDM).
- It is also stupid that RDM and SMN have access to the same Res Skill as Healers have (which destroys another aspect of the main duty of Healers). IF Res should be inplimented into another Class outside of the Healer Role, it should be alot more restricted, like having a 2-5Min CD and that it cannot be swift-/dualcasted.
- Tanks being now way too beefy, renders Healers completely unnecessary. Bloodwhetting/Heart of Corundum aside (which are way too potent), Tanks already had too many ways of the same type of dmg mitigation, and the more they get, the less Healers get something to do (cut the amount of Tank CD's that reduce dmg by X amount in half and give Tanks a "Parry Skill" that isnt straight up broken. For example, -10% dmg reduction for 4-6sec for the next attack recieved, but if you dont get hit by anything during that time and it wears off, u recieve +10% dmg for the same amount of time, also on GCD)
- If you want Healers to be healing properly, then give them actual Skills that actually compliment their other Skills in their Kit more, instead of giving them simple black and white fashioned abilities. This is a MMORPG, not Dragon Quest.

Also, Get yourself a proper Team for Job design and remove the people who currently do it. Youre failing for 3 Expansions in a Row now and it is only getting worse. The fact that Healers have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 Years at least, is just Unfair.

Tl;dr: Dont design Tanks and Healers, if you dont play Tank or Healer in MMOs.

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Originally Posted by ErryK

"no healers required"

take away second wind, curing waltz, bloodbath, clemency and bloodwhetting. if we don't need healers, we don't need healing actions.

oh wait...

edit: let's also not forget this is a premade that knows what they're doing. half of my own datacenter would be helpless without healers in the party.

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That's not how this works at all. Unless you intend to say a healer is only identified by their heal. Is this true? Then let's just rip that pesky damage spell and DoT they have. Shields? Haha, that's not a heal. Out you go. Buffs? Unless that buff makes HP go zoom, it should be shoved into the shredder and fed yet to another DPS as they are want to do.

What an insipid argument. There's plenty of reasons this proves little, but to say "If you have no healers, no heals allowed" is almost mind-numbingly insulting. It's this notion that healers and healing are so fundamentally married that one simply cannot exist without the other that has made the healing class able to be played to utter perfection by some primitive bot. If people can survive without healers because they have their own heals, that's a reality you can't modify to satisfy your snarky belief.

I'm positive you are very graceful and proud in your ability to press two buttons. Maybe, when you're feeling spicy, even THREE. But let's not pretend like healers have, ever had, or will ever have a monopoly on healing.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

It is quite ironic how Squeenix fails to design proper Healer and Tank Jobs, and yet have the audacity to say "do some Devs even play their own Games?"

There are ALOT of ways to fix the issues on both Healers and Tanks. Everyone here who has experienced multiple MMOs in his life, knows that normally, Specialist Roles such as Healers and Tanks, arent suppoest to be generalized down to the bare bones.

- I think its stupid Game design that every Job has Party Utilities that should normally be in the hands if Healer and Support classes (like Bard, DNC and RDM).
- It is also stupid that RDM and SMN have access to the same Res Skill as Healers have (which destroys another aspect of the main duty of Healers). IF Res should be inplimented into another Class outside of the Healer Role, it should be alot more restricted, like having a 2-5Min CD and that it cannot be swift-/dualcasted.
- Tanks being now way too beefy, renders Healers completely unnecessary. Bloodwhetting/Heart of Corundum aside (which are way too potent), Tanks already had too many ways of the same type of dmg mitigation, and the more they get, the less Healers get something to do (cut the amount of Tank CD's that reduce dmg by X amount in half and give Tanks a "Parry Skill" that isnt straight up broken. For example, -10% dmg reduction for 4-6sec for the next attack recieved, but if you dont get hit by anything during that time and it wears off, u recieve +10% dmg for the same amount of time, also on GCD)
- If you want Healers to be healing properly, then give them actual Skills that actually compliment their other Skills in their Kit more, instead of giving them simple black and white fashioned abilities. This is a MMORPG, not Dragon Quest.

Also, Get yourself a proper Team for Job design and remove the people who currently do it. Youre failing for 3 Expansions in a Row now and it is only getting worse. The fact that Healers have to deal with this mess for another 2-3 Years at least, is just Unfair.

Tl;dr: Dont design Tanks and Healers, if you dont play Tank or Healer in MMOs.

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What I like most about FFXIV is that it's not like other MMOs... which is a good thing because the game is wiping the floor with the other MMOs, and for a good reason.

FFXIV is seeing record numbers flock to it. I think the dev team is doing something right. If you so pine for the feel of another MMO perhaps play them a bit?

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Originally Posted by lezard21

Well, players have this notion that healing is hard and requires skill.

While that might once have been true, healing has been baby-fied into one button press for full HP job ever since ShB.

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My 2.0 WHM had Benediction, can't recall if my 1.0 CNJ did as well .. just saying.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

What I like most about FFXIV is that it's not like other MMOs... which is a good thing because the game is wiping the floor with the other MMOs, and for a good reason.

FFXIV is seeing record numbers flock to it. I think the dev team is doing something right. If you so pine for the feel of another MMO perhaps play them a bit?

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The only right thing they are doing, is anything BUT the parts that involve adjustments on any of the Jobs. IF FFXIV didnt had that much of a engaging Story, i doubt it would be as successful as it is today.

This thread is just nihilists, smug gits and overly defensive healers throwing hands.

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Originally Posted by Veliaire

What I like most about FFXIV is that it's not like other MMOs... which is a good thing because the game is wiping the floor with the other MMOs, and for a good reason.

FFXIV is seeing record numbers flock to it. I think the dev team is doing something right. If you so pine for the feel of another MMO perhaps play them a bit?

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Besides the fact that this is effectively an appeal to popularity fallacy...

This is likely anecdotal, but most every praise I've seen for the game since it started to balloon in popularity was praise for the story, the gear mechanics, and the choreography of the fights as aspects that were making the game great in spite of the less than stellar class gameplay. When it came to class gameplay, most people seemed to feel that previous expansions (those before Shadowbringers) had stronger gameplay elements for classes, in particular for healers and tanks. The only classes that appeared to be "good" were DPS. And I honestly agree.

I think the game became popular in spite of the class gameplay for those two roles. Healers have been openly suffering for a long time while being ignored by the devs, and tanks are consistently a mixed bag. If I could get the same level of quality in story/gearing mechanics in other games as I could here but with more care and attention paid to healers or tanks I'd jump on that game over FFXIV in a heartbeat.

WAR can keep itself alive without a healer.
PLD practically IS a healer.
DNC's rotate Healing Waltzes.

Pretty much what they did with E4S only with SMNs instead of RPRs.

Maybe, but I’m not one of those players.