Why do "Standard Controls" players still need to face target but not "Legacy Control"

Despite standard controls being default, everyone has to switch to legacy to avoid having to face target when using actions. This makes no sense and is terrible for players who prefer "standard controls", making it unnecessarily clunky for those who are stubborn enough to stick to it.

Is there any reason behind keeping this difference? Or is there simply no one still using standard controls that the developers completely forgot standard controls are clunky as hell?

Me still using Standard Controls be like:

https://c.tenor.com/Fp0JJdxY6msAAAAC/yes-sweating.gif

I dont quite understand what youre asking here.

you can select auto face target when using standard.

The main issue is that FF's frontal cone of where you are considered to be facing the target is not 180°. So when strafing around a target you will often not be able to execute actions unless you have auto facing turned on.

For those of us who are used to wow movement (which is what standard is supposed to mimic) - this causes MORE problems, because were used to the ability to constantly be able to hit a target in that 180° cone in front of you..
So moving around a boss, we will be attacking no matter what.

If youre using standard movement to run around a boss and youre not paying attention - you can easily start to move in directions you dont expect to, because youre auto facing the target when you attack.

its really weird. just use legacy. its odd at first but i 100% promise that if you turn it on and just play with it for a day you will never go back

Just use Legacy controls. Will it be a bit rough early on? Yeah but then it’ll click and you’ll wonder why WoW doesn’t have this.

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Originally Posted by Xuled

Just use Legacy controls. Will it be a bit rough early on? Yeah but then it’ll click and you’ll wonder why WoW doesn’t have this.

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I mean..wow doesnt really need it. you dont really have to fight against the movement in wow in order to hit the target. having an attack cone of 180° is nice. But both gams are built around their own movement.

Yes. Do yourself a favor - switch to Legacy.

On Legacy, you still face the target after using your ability. The only difference is that when you press S, you immediately turn 180º and start walking backwards.

Even if you play on keyboard, I just literally can't go back to how it was before.

Also, as a non-legacy user, ask yourself how often you use the S key - a key that literally makes you walk away backwards slowly, while facing the target. Let me go ahead and tell you - YOU NEVER USE IT, IT'S USELESS!!! You use your mouse to turn the camera around, and then either walk forward or strafe sideways!

Well, here is the beauty of using legacy - YOU CAN STILL DO THE EXACT SAME THING IF YOU WANT! It doesn't lock you out. But after a while, you're going to ask yourself: "What is the point of this when I can literally just press S to get to where I want, while at the same time keep my eyes on the boss?"

Long story SHIRT - PIPE DOWN AND TURN ON LEGACY MODE!

I am scared to get used to "legacy" because legacy makes it sound like something that is going to be removed

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Originally Posted by Harriks

I am scared to get used to "legacy" because legacy makes it sound like something that is going to be removed

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It's the default if you use a controller, so for everyone who plays on console.

It's been in for 8 years. It's not getting removed lol.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Also, as a non-legacy user, ask yourself how often you use the S key - a key that literally makes you walk away backwards slowly, while facing the target. Let me go ahead and tell you - YOU NEVER USE IT, IT'S USELESS!!! You use your mouse to turn the camera around, and then either walk forward or strafe sideways!

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As someone who has only dabbled using legacy: every day. I just like backpedaling in general and doing small adjustments with it even if it's more or less the same with legacy. I actually can't for the life of me just hit S and run towards the camera to dodge something and instead just strafe out like i was on standard.

My wish is that there was some kind of hybrid mode where the movement would be standard out of combat and legacy while in combat and also would allow me to change where my character is facing with my mouse. I've eaten so many stare attacks because I try to look away with the mouse.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

As someone who has only dabbled using legacy: every day. I just like backpedaling in general and doing small adjustments with it even if it's more or less the same with legacy. I actually can't for the life of me just hit S and run towards the camera to dodge something and instead just strafe out like i was on standard.

My wish is that there was some kind of hybrid mode where the movement would be standard out of combat and legacy while in combat and also would allow me to change where my character is facing with my mouse. I've eaten so many stare attacks because I try to look away with the mouse.

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i was used to strafing out of mechaincs also - But it kept getting me killed in FF. Because in FF if you strafe out and continue to attack.. it will auto face you to your target and you will not longer be moving in the same direction..
Legacy was a must for me in FF.

A lot of players are saying "Just switch to legacy", you'll get used to it. Well that's kind of my point.. The standard controls are just shitty in comparison but I know many people like myself, prefer standard controls. (One reason is that you can turn the camera while running in a straight line. On Legacy, you would have to hold S instead of W if you wanna run towards the camera for example, but on standard you can keep holding W while turning the camera.

And also, I don't see any reason to make standard controls shitty, if there's supposed to be some kind of "tradeoff". I know so many, especially new players who are confused why the standard controls are as bad as they are.

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Originally Posted by nelothi

I dont quite understand what youre asking here.

you can select auto face target when using standard.

The main issue is that FF's frontal cone of where you are considered to be facing the target is not 180°. So when strafing around a target you will often not be able to execute actions unless you have auto facing turned on.

For those of us who are used to wow movement (which is what standard is supposed to mimic) - this causes MORE problems, because were used to the ability to constantly be able to hit a target in that 180° cone in front of you..
So moving around a boss, we will be attacking no matter what.

If youre using standard movement to run around a boss and youre not paying attention - you can easily start to move in directions you dont expect to, because youre auto facing the target when you attack.

its really weird. just use legacy. its odd at first but i 100% promise that if you turn it on and just play with it for a day you will never go back

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Like you said, auto face target while on standard doesn't automatically point your character back the way you want it to be facing, you have to manually turn the character back the way you want.. Or the infamous "shake mouse while holding right click" workaround, which is kinda insane that we have to deal with.

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

A lot of players are saying "Just switch to legacy", you'll get used to it. Well that's kind of my point.. The standard controls are just shitty in comparison but I know many people like myself, prefer standard controls. (One reason is that you can turn the camera while running in a straight line. On Legacy, you would have to hold S instead of W if you wanna run towards the camera for example, but on standard you can keep holding W while turning the camera.

And also, I don't see any reason to make standard controls shitty, if there's supposed to be some kind of "tradeoff". I know so many, especially new players who are confused why the standard controls are as bad as they are.

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It's actually kinda sad how most of you see a bad mechanic, agree that it's bad, and just tell people to ignore it and use something else and ask them to stop complaining about it being bad. If it turns people off from the game shouldn't it be considered a problem? Especially when it's the DEFAULT SETTING on Windows version.

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

It's actually kinda sad how most of you see a bad mechanic, agree that it's bad, and just tell people to ignore it and use something else and ask them to stop complaining about it being bad. If it turns people off from the game shouldn't it be considered a problem? Especially when it's the DEFAULT SETTING on Windows version.

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its only bad because you have to use auto face in FF.
for one reason or another (not sure why myself..) FF is designed around having an attack cone that is not 180° - they could change that.. but im not sure why they dont have that in the first place.
untill that gets addressed - use legacy. it feels way better.

So... Standard mode is "character control", which means whatever direction your character is facing is where the camera is facing. So if you run by an enemy and attack, your camera swings around and your character then goes in the direction it is now facing.

Legacy is "camera based", so character and camera are independent of each other. This is why they work the way they do

The entire premise of your question is wrong though. You character has to be facing the target to execute actions. This is true for both Legacy and Standard. And auto-face setting does exactly what it says in both modes.

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

A lot of players are saying "Just switch to legacy", you'll get used to it. Well that's kind of my point.. The standard controls are just shitty in comparison but I know many people like myself, prefer standard controls. (One reason is that you can turn the camera while running in a straight line. On Legacy, you would have to hold S instead of W if you wanna run towards the camera for example, but on standard you can keep holding W while turning the camera.

And also, I don't see any reason to make standard controls shitty, if there's supposed to be some kind of "tradeoff". I know so many, especially new players who are confused why the standard controls are as bad as they are.

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Uhm... hello? On Legacy, you don't HAVE to hold S instead of W if you wanna run towards the camera. You can just keep holding W and turn the camera. The S is there as an option in case you don't want to turn the camera...

Like I honestly don't get what your point is. On Standard, A and D turn the camera... but people just hold down the right mouse button to turn the camera anyway WHILE turning their character at the same time. Not only that, but holding the right mouse button turns A and D into strafe keys... WHICH HAPPENS BY DEFAULT IN LEGACY MODE!

EDIT: Actually, for those who play on Standard, during a fight you're mostly just holding down the right mouse button most of the time, because it's how you control the camera and turn your character when you're running.

So at the end of the day, functionally and practically speaking, the ONLY THING that changes when you change from Standard into Legacy mode, is that the S key now makes you run backwards towards the camera instead of slowly backing up. And I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure the backwards run is A LOT more useful during fights where I'm trying to avoid a gaze mechanic and keep the boss in my screen.

Just a heads-up that you can do the Standard Mode backpedal in Legacy Controls by pressing D S and A at the same time. The backpedal is lame but sometimes, especially in Gaze mechanics, I prefer not to be turned back around fully. Not many situations it's handy in, off the top of my head I do it only in Bardam's Mettle.

But yeah, if you like the Standard Mode backpedal but want to play Legacy, well here's your solution.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

Uhm... hello? On Legacy, you don't HAVE to hold S instead of W if you wanna run towards the camera. You can just keep holding W and turn the camera. The S is there as an option in case you don't want to turn the camera...

Like I honestly don't get what your point is. On Standard, A and D turn the camera... but people just hold down the right mouse button to turn the camera anyway WHILE turning their character at the same time. Not only that, but holding the right mouse button turns A and D into strafe keys... WHICH HAPPENS BY DEFAULT IN LEGACY MODE!

EDIT: Actually, for those who play on Standard, during a fight you're mostly just holding down the right mouse button most of the time, because it's how you control the camera and turn your character when you're running.

So at the end of the day, functionally and practically speaking, the ONLY THING that changes when you change from Standard into Legacy mode, is that the S key now makes you run backwards towards the camera instead of slowly backing up. And I dunno about you, but I'm pretty sure the backwards run is A LOT more useful during fights where I'm trying to avoid a gaze mechanic and keep the boss in my screen.

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If this is true, I didn't know about it. When I select Legacy controls, hold W, and turn the camera, the character turns with the camera and will always run away form the camera, never towards unless I hold S. Is there a different keybind I'm supposed to be using?

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Originally Posted by Azuri

The entire premise of your question is wrong though. You character has to be facing the target to execute actions. This is true for both Legacy and Standard. And auto-face setting does exactly what it says in both modes.

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Not true? When on legacy mode, enabling auto face target makes it so you don't actually have to face your target. Attacking an enemy can be done while running a different direction. This is not the same as in standard mode where your character will face the target and run off towards it.

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Originally Posted by nelothi

its only bad because you have to use auto face in FF.
for one reason or another (not sure why myself..) FF is designed around having an attack cone that is not 180° - they could change that.. but im not sure why they dont have that in the first place.
untill that gets addressed - use legacy. it feels way better.

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This is exactly what I'm talking about. You say "Until that gets adressed".. It's been like this for 8 years; I want it to be adressed that's why I'm posting. I think you're the only one who understand my comment.

I know that using Legacy controls is a "workaround" or "hotfix" and I made that clear in the post so I don't know why people are telling me to switch.

for reference, Legacy control players *do* need to face targets, it's just that their camera isn't yoinked in the same direction when using autoface and the important part is their character facing instead of the camera, there's not really a way i can see to fix this other than completely removing the need to face towards enemies to cast etc, but i don't see them doing that

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

Not true? When on legacy mode, enabling auto face target makes it so you don't actually have to face your target. Attacking an enemy can be done while running a different direction. This is not the same as in standard mode where your character will face the target and run off towards it.

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This is the intended behaviour and again, you have to face the target in both modes to execute actions. Standard and Legacy are "Movement Settings", not "Camera Settings". In case of standard your movement is "character-based" and "forward" is the direction the character is facing. Legacy is "camera-based" so "forward" is the direction your camera is facing. Logically, when you use standard and have auto-face enabled you character will correctly turn toward the target and your "forward" will be pointing towards the target. In legacy your character turning to face the target has no effect on where "forward" is and if you were to keep holding "W" they would just continue running in the direction your camera is pointing after turning momentarily.

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

If this is true, I didn't know about it. When I select Legacy controls, hold W, and turn the camera, the character turns with the camera and will always run away form the camera, never towards unless I hold S. Is there a different keybind I'm supposed to be using?

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I see what is going on. You are turning your camera using the LEFT mouse button. Which makes me want to question how you're playing.

Please answer me this - how do you turn your character when you're walking?

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

I see what is going on. You are turning your camera using the LEFT mouse button. Which makes me want to question how you're playing.

Please answer me this - how do you turn your character when you're walking?

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For me, using Legacy controls, turning the camera with right or left mouse button do the same thing: The character turns with the camera. When I use standard controls, right click turns camera and character. Left click turns camera only. I haven't found a way to turn camera only with Legacy controls

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Originally Posted by Azuri

This is the intended behaviour and again, you have to face the target in both modes to execute actions. Standard and Legacy are "Movement Settings", not "Camera Settings". In case of standard your movement is "character-based" and "forward" is the direction the character is facing. Legacy is "camera-based" so "forward" is the direction your camera is facing. Logically, when you use standard and have auto-face enabled you character will correctly turn toward the target and your "forward" will be pointing towards the target. In legacy your character turning to face the target has no effect on where "forward" is and if you were to keep holding "W" they would just continue running in the direction your camera is pointing after turning momentarily.

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Yeah, sounds like a great mechanic to me..

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

If this is true, I didn't know about it. When I select Legacy controls, hold W, and turn the camera, the character turns with the camera and will always run away form the camera, never towards unless I hold S. Is there a different keybind I'm supposed to be using?

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I use autorun (r or scrollwheel) and left mouse button if need be.

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

For me, using Legacy controls, turning the camera with right or left mouse button do the same thing: The character turns with the camera. When I use standard controls, right click turns camera and character. Left click turns camera only. I haven't found a way to turn camera only with Legacy controls

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The main question is why you would want turn just the camera. You're aware that using right-click turns camera and character, while left-click turns just the camera.

Let's say you're in the middle of a fight. The boss is about to use a gaze attack. You have to look away from the boss.

For Standard players, your options are to use A and D to turn your character (SLOWLY) and face away, or use the right-click to INSTANTLY turn your character away. I was asking because I was under the impression you didn't know about using right-click to turn your character.

Let's make it even more dangerous - running out of an AoE attack. How do you do this using Standard? Same thing. Except here, we can see the right-click is clearly more efficient, since using the mouse to turn your character is a lot faster than turning using A or D (without holding anything).

Now let's apply the same two scenarios, only in this case we'll use Legacy.

Enemy is using a gaze attack? Just tap S at the right time, then go back to hitting the boss. No mouse movement is even needed.

You have to run backwards out of an AoE attack? Just hold S. No mouse movement needed either.

The thing with Legacy mode is that movement will always be relative to the camera. So if the camera is facing the boss, pressing S will make you run away from the boss. If you re-orient the camera so that the boss isn't on the screen anymore, you will then have to press W to run away. This is similar to games like Dead By Daylight - if you look behind you to see the killer, you have to switch. It would be extremely confusing otherwise, because it's not always apparent which direction your character is facing. So there would be times where you'd want to walk forward in certain direction, but you'd begin to move in another, because that's the direction your character is facing.

When you're playing with Legacy, you're really not supposed to be moving the camera so much. And if you do, then you'll have to adjust your movement.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

The main question is why you would want turn just the camera.

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It's useful when you need to be running in one direction, but checking multiple angles in different directions at once.

I don't use the S button? There really is no need to back peddle. Use the S button for something better (an action that is pressed constantly). As for legacy? If you learn to constantly strafe instead of forwards and backwards, it's quicker then moving forwards and backwards. This is a PvP trick. Learn how to use strafing with mouse control on Standard mode. Forget the backwards button. Yes, it will take time to get used to it, but, once you do, your reaction time and non-reach action button will give you a better edge. And for god-sakes...if you still have A and D bound as turns....get rid of it. LOL

I have been using standard for 5 years, and after i started going for the necromancer title it was really causing me problems and caused me to almost die a myriad of times. I was wondering why people streaming weren't having this issue until someone told me. I didnt even know about it. If anyone wants to know how my run went, my computer froze at floor 181 and i have not reattempted because i dont know why it happened. Dont want to go through 8 hours of floors to have it freeze again.

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Originally Posted by Rayinfluense

A lot of players are saying "Just switch to legacy", you'll get used to it. Well that's kind of my point.. The standard controls are just shitty in comparison but I know many people like myself, prefer standard controls. (One reason is that you can turn the camera while running in a straight line. On Legacy, you would have to hold S instead of W if you wanna run towards the camera for example, but on standard you can keep holding W while turning the camera.

And also, I don't see any reason to make standard controls shitty, if there's supposed to be some kind of "tradeoff". I know so many, especially new players who are confused why the standard controls are as bad as they are.

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So much this, were I not a healer main I would swap to legacy but standard lets me run back and away diagonally while still keeping my camera pointed in towards the boss and my party so I can see who is about to mess up a mechanic and heal them. If I try and do that with legacy it makes her backpedal left or right instead and screws me over. I am so used to flicking camera around to keep an eye on my party but it is a pain for gaze mechanics in particular having to 180 like that.

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Originally Posted by Aelin_Ashryver

So much this, were I not a healer main I would swap to legacy but standard lets me run back and away diagonally while still keeping my camera pointed in towards the boss and my party so I can see who is about to mess up a mechanic and heal them. If I try and do that with legacy it makes her backpedal left or right instead and screws me over. I am so used to flicking camera around to keep an eye on my party but it is a pain for gaze mechanics in particular having to 180 like that.

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You can do this on Legacy though. :( In fact, with Legacy you can run back and away STRAIGHT towards the camera... instead of just diagonally.