Endwalker's plot is loosely based on Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator (Spoilers)

I cross-posted this from the lore forums for increased visibility.
In short, Meteion was created by mankind and then turned on her creators upon some profound realization, much like how in The Terminator, Skynet was created by humans and then began exterminating humans once it became self-aware. There's other similar elements between the two fictional universes, such as FFXIV having The Final Days, and The Terminator having Judgement Day. In both cases, the entire planet’s population suffers an apocalyptic event. Hell, both fictional universes even have methods of time travel where the time traveler is sent into the past in order to either do something or find something out to save the present timeline.

TLDR: This is just a showerthought. Meteion essentially is Skynet

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In short, Meteion was created by mankind and then turned on her creators upon some profound realization

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Its called the Frankenstein Complex, its a standard writing theme and has been for close to 70 years, starting with Frankenstein, going along to films like Colossus the Forbin Project, Gog and a host of others.

Meteion wasnt part of that btw, the writing themes are far more complex.

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TLDR: This is just a showerthought. Meteion essentially is Skynet

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No, she isnt, far from it.

Um dude Meteion never turned on her creators. She believed she was helping them because that's what all the universe wanted, and that we ere just in denial. She was created to find the answer to life and instead found nothing but death, and suicidal yearnings. Aka Nihilism.

Because she was a super strong empath, that nihilism became a part of her sisters, which infected her as soon as she joined the hive. She became corrupted by it, but not in the sense of evil or wanting to kill to kill. She was bringing the universe what it wanted.

Even to the end she still desired not to hurt Hermes, she offers he come with her (of course corruptly after saying she'd have offered him a peaceful death) but when you redeem her she immediately is forlorn that she could not give Hermes the answer he wanted the answer he yearned for.

That's not turning against her creators. Also, I'd beg to say Meteion had more sentience than a typical AI. Everyone says she's just a familiar and AI, but so was Alpha.

She evolved passed that.

Meteion began exterminating not because of simply self aware but because of fundamental truth introduced by EA, the despair felt by the dragon race, the feeling of nothingness by Omicron, the apathy of certain race, the self loathing of certain sick plaqued race, the failure of a sucessful global citizen to control peace, and countless other unmentioned civilization, including the last place where a civilization can simply vanish unknowingly, this is all accumulated as realization by Meteion that there is no happiness or sadness, everything will end anyway, so why bother? Lets just end everything faster and death is the only answer

Everyone's opinions regarding the story are welcome. Please keep em coming.

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Originally Posted by Ravor

Meteion began exterminating not because of simply self aware but because of fundamental truth introduced by EA

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Yeah I guess we can't blame her. Electronic Arts is the bane of many gamers existence after all.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Meteion wasnt part of that btw, the writing themes are far more complex.

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So what's the complex part? Sadness and despair?

XD yeah Electronic Art is the bane of gamer but on serious notes, The EA i mentioned is one of the race we meet in last map that explain about the fundamental truth of ff14 universe

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

Um dude Meteion never turned on her creators. She believed she was helping them because that's what all the universe wanted, and that we ere just in denial. She was created to find the answer to life and instead found nothing but death, and suicidal yearnings. Aka Nihilism.

Because she was a super strong empath, that nihilism became a part of her sisters, which infected her as soon as she joined the hive. She became corrupted by it, but not in the sense of evil or wanting to kill to kill. She was bringing the universe what it wanted.

Even to the end she still desired not to hurt Hermes, she offers he come with her (of course corruptly after saying she'd have offered him a peaceful death) but when you redeem her she immediately is forlorn that she could not give Hermes the answer he wanted the answer he yearned for.

That's not turning against her creators. Also, I'd beg to say Meteion had more sentience than a typical AI. Everyone says she's just a familiar and AI, but so was Alpha.

She evolved passed that.

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Yes, Yes. There's obviously differences between the two fictional universes. That's why I added the word "loosely" in the title.

The subject title is a spoiler itself please change or delete it.

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Originally Posted by Red_Panda

The subject title is a spoiler itself please change or delete it.

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Can't change or delete titles.

I'll give you the 2nd section of the first level 90 dungeon, which is aptly titled "Judgement Day". That's definitely the Terminator planet.

... everything else is a giant stretch.

Goth Meteion is just Twitter after Tumblr invaded.

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'll give you the 2nd section of the first level 90 dungeon, which is aptly titled "Judgement Day". That's definitely the Terminator planet.

... everything else is a giant stretch.

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It gets better though. If you read the sparkly items on the floor, they go into detail about how in this planet, the main civilization (called the Globalists) tried to unite all the people under one ruler to help establish peace.

Much like the Garleans were trying to do with Eorzea.

Naturally, there were those who opposed this (the Freedom Fighters). And thus war ensued. So the Globalists created the Peacemaker machines in order to defeat the Freedom Fighters, except the Peacemakers ended up realizing than in order to establish peace, they would have to get rid of not just the Freedom Fighters, but the Globalists as well. Now THIS is literally Terminator (and other AI in movies out there, Ultron had similar motivations, etc.).

The machine realized that peace would be impossible unless they were ALL exterminated, which is similar to Meteion's train of thought in the sense that she believes happiness is ultimately impossible - non-existence is the only option.

Ultimately this led to one person (I don't know which side they were on) triggering all the weapons to basically destroy everything - you see it right after you kill the second boss.

It's just so well-done because it sort of illustrates what might have happened to our planet had the Garlean's actually succeeded in conquering everything.

I'll need to google my Twitter to confirm.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

Because she was a super strong empath, that nihilism became a part of her sisters, which infected her as soon as she joined the hive. She became corrupted by it, but not in the sense of evil or wanting to kill to kill. She was bringing the universe what it wanted.

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don't forget that it's pretty strongly implied that said empath ability also allowed her to influence the emotions of others and that said despair caused civilisations to die out just as much as they died out by themselves with her watching, not to mention influencing hermes

Isn't it James Cameron's terminator? Schwarzenegger is just in it right?

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Originally Posted by Jennah

I'll give you the 2nd section of the first level 90 dungeon, which is aptly titled "Judgement Day". That's definitely the Terminator planet.

... everything else is a giant stretch.

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I'm not saying the game is a carbon copy of the terminator universe. I'm saying that FFXIV captures that same spirit where a civilizations seemingly harmless creation ended up being its own undoing. There's obvious differences between the two universes such as the manner in which the Meteia and the machines attempt to destroy their creators.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I cross-posted this from the lore forums for increased visibility.
In short, Meteion was created by mankind and then turned on her creators upon some profound realization, much like how in The Terminator, Skynet was created by humans and then began exterminating humans once it became self-aware. There's other similar elements between the two fictional universes, such as FFXIV having The Final Days, and The Terminator having Judgement Day. In both cases, the entire planet’s population suffers an apocalyptic event. Hell, both fictional universes even have methods of time travel where the time traveler is sent into the past in order to either do something or find something out to save the present timeline.

TLDR: This is just a showerthought. Meteion essentially is Skynet

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Yes, but this basic idea didn't originate with Terminator, it also borrowed from things that preceded it... as most every story does.

One of the things I enjoyed most about this expansion's story is how much they made me LIKE Hermes and Meteion.

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Originally Posted by Viirin

Yes, but this basic idea didn't originate with Terminator

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I never said it did.

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Originally Posted by Sclair0

Isn't it James Cameron's terminator? Schwarzenegger is just in it right?

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Yes you're correct. The title should read "loosely based on The Terminator Starring Arnold" or "loosely based on James Cameron's The Terminator."

I also found some similitude with "Terminator 2", not story wise but the music, part of Endwalker's battle theme sounds similar to said movie's main theme. Pretty cool actually, makes me want to watch the movie again.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

It gets better though. If you read the sparkly items on the floor, they go into detail about how in this planet, the main civilization (called the Globalists) tried to unite all the people under one ruler to help establish peace.

Much like the Garleans were trying to do with Eorzea.

Naturally, there were those who opposed this (the Freedom Fighters). And thus war ensued. So the Globalists created the Peacemaker machines in order to defeat the Freedom Fighters, except the Peacemakers ended up realizing than in order to establish peace, they would have to get rid of not just the Freedom Fighters, but the Globalists as well. Now THIS is literally Terminator (and other AI in movies out there, Ultron had similar motivations, etc.).

The machine realized that peace would be impossible unless they were ALL exterminated, which is similar to Meteion's train of thought in the sense that she believes happiness is ultimately impossible - non-existence is the only option.

Ultimately this led to one person (I don't know which side they were on) triggering all the weapons to basically destroy everything - you see it right after you kill the second boss.

It's just so well-done because it sort of illustrates what might have happened to our planet had the Garlean's actually succeeded in conquering everything.

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Yeah I should've predicted SE would do something like this. The SE localization staff love pop culture references and this is a prime example of that.

I don't see any similarity. Her decision to wipe out existence is born of despair and suffering. It is not the emotionless logical algorithm of a machine made for killing.

Skynet is also not a remotely philosophical character. It cannot be argued with, and it has no cosmic agenda.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I don't see any similarity. Her decision to wipe out existence is born of despair and suffering. It is not the emotionless logical algorithm of a machine made for killing.

Skynet is also not a remotely philosophical character. It cannot be argued with, and it has no cosmic agenda.

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This analysis entirely misses the point of this post. I'm not saying the game's plot is a copy The Terminator's. I'm saying that FFXIV captures that same spirit where a civilization's seemingly harmless creation ended up being its own undoing. There's obvious differences between the two universes.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

This analysis entirely misses the point of this post. I'm not saying the game's plot is a copy The Terminator's. I'm saying that FFXIV captures that same spirit where a civilization's seemingly harmless creation ended up being its own undoing. There's obvious differences between the two universes.

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"Based on" means "a recreation of." And it's not. Not only is it not based on Terminator, but also, Skynet was never "seemingly harmless." It was given the capability to wipe out the human race deliberately, and decided to. Its entire mechanism was a murder machine and it did what was predictable to it. It is nothing like Meteion.

You have failed to understand not only Endwalker but also Terminator.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

"Based on" means "a recreation of." And it's not. Not only is it not based on Terminator, but also, Skynet was never "seemingly harmless." It was given the capability to wipe out the human race deliberately, and decided to. Its entire mechanism was a murder machine and it did what was predictable to it. It is nothing like Meteion.

You have failed to understand not only Endwalker but also Terminator.

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Title says "loosely based." You have to read things carefully, man. Also, "seemingly harmless" as in its creators didn't think it capable of turning on them. They didn't predict Skynet becoming self-aware.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

I also found some similitude with "Terminator 2", not story wise but the music, part of Endwalker's battle theme sounds similar to said movie's main theme. Pretty cool actually, makes me want to watch the movie again.

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Yeah, Soken is known to draw some inspiration from popular pieces from time to time. For example, his song Figments, the OST for the dungeon Dohn Mheg, appears to be inspired by Peter Tchaikovsky’s Dance of the Sugar Plum Fairy from the Nutcracker Suite. It's fantastically composed IMO.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

Title says "loosely based." You have to read things carefully, man. Also, "seemingly harmless" as in its creators didn't think it capable of turning on them. They didn't predict Skynet becoming self-aware.

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Man you need to chill out. People don't agree with your take because it's wrong, telling people to read better isn't going to make your argument more sound. You're just wrong. 100%

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Originally Posted by Exosapien

Man you need to chill out. People don't agree with your take because it's wrong, telling people to read better isn't going to make your argument more sound. You're just wrong. 100%

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I like this idea. Thanks for your input.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

Its called the Frankenstein Complex, its a standard writing theme and has been for close to 70 years, starting with Frankenstein, going along to films like Colossus the Forbin Project, Gog and a host of others.
Meteion wasnt part of that btw, the writing themes are far more complex.

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I wouldn't necessarily exclude Meteion from the Frankenstein Complex. Yeah, she's a biological creation as opposed to a mechanical one which is what the Frankenstein Complex usually refers to, but I'd still say Meteion's character represents that idea quite well because she is a creation who is a danger to the creator.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

I wouldn't necessarily exclude Meteion from the Frankenstein Complex. Yeah, she's a biological creation as opposed to a mechanical one which is what the Frankenstein Complex usually refers to, but I'd still say Meteion's character represents that idea quite well because she is a creation who is a danger to the creator.

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Except again, she never turned on her creator! She kept Hermes in mind in everything she did, she just thought she was doing the right thing!

She didn't say "humanity is ruining the universe I need to kill humanity."
She saw what humanity and species led to, and showed that they wanted, and thus came to the answer that that is what she needed to do to help!

She can't fit 'creation is danger to creator' if she never betrayed her creator.

So loosely is slipped right off.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

Except again, she never turned on her creator! She kept Hermes in mind in everything she did, she just thought she was doing the right thing!

She didn't say "humanity is ruining the universe I need to kill humanity."
She saw what humanity and species led to, and showed that they wanted, and thus came to the answer that that is what she needed to do to help!

She can't fit 'creation is danger to creator' if she never betrayed her creator.

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She still tried to have him and his people killed though. Sure, Meteion’s and the machines’ motives are different, but my point is they both tried to wipe out the civilization that created them. Something that kills is dangerous, and that’s why Meteion, as a creation, was a danger to the creator.

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Originally Posted by Nekaru_Infitima

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I’ll try to better dissect the argument we’re having. What we’re disagreeing on is the motive behind the wiping out of an entire civilization. I’ll agree that the motives are different. Meteion thought she was helping by putting the ancients out of their misery; essentially a mercy killing, and the machines attempting to destroy humanity out of self-preservation. It seems to me what you’re hung up on is the difference in motive, which I agree there is, but my original post was alluding to the theme of “creation killing creator” regardless of their motive. Meteion was the cause of the final days, and the machines were the cause of judgement day for two very different reasons, but the outcome was supposed to be the same: the extinction of those two civilizations. That’s why I use the term “loosely based” on the Terminator. The two fictional stories are not going to match up completely with each other.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

So loosely is slipped right off.

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Oh c’mon. So now the definition of “loosely based” needs to be argued about as well? It honestly comes off as grasping for straws at this point.