Ok, so i understand the queues, i am willing to even understand the fact that you guys havent rented Cloud space, and all you do is blame chip shortages.
(You know that you could either get the servers at a higher price, or do the rational thing, SPEND on CLOUD SERVICES in the meantime, while this situation subsides).
But, if you are not willing to do that.
AT THE VERY LEAST...
FIX ERROR 2002... If you need more servers for the login queue, to increase from 21k to something like 100K, then so be it..
At least without error 2002, you dont get to babysit for 4-5 hours.
I have been unable to play the past days, everytime, even babysitting, you go to the bathroom or even a small distraction (you cant expect us to be 5 hours looking at the computer screen), and then you need to begin from scratch.
TO ALL THE FANBOYS. STOP EXCUSING SE, THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES, EITHER BUY THE FRICKING SERVERS EVEN IF AT HIGHER PRICE, OR JUST RENT IT!!
USE THE CLOUD..... IT IS THERE FOR USE !!
OK, ENOUGH is enough !! 2002 error needs fixing...
Printable View
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12-13-2021, 01:14 AMSwimcitoOK, ENOUGH is enough !! 2002 error needs fixing...
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12-13-2021, 01:29 AMWulf
Ah yes, let's ask Yoshi-P to buy non-existent servers and adjust the client to work with 'the cloud'. Sure. No problem! It'll be done tomorrow.
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12-13-2021, 01:30 AMSwimcitoThat is just a NAT Gateway and an IP away...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf
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12-13-2021, 01:32 AMConando
They’re not going to move the game to THE CLOUD.
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12-13-2021, 01:34 AMijuakos_xqwztsAnd a service contract outlining the responsibilities of both parties, including assurances that the provider can supply a certain amount of uptime. Because God forbid you people can't get logged onto the server...Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimcito
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12-13-2021, 01:35 AMSwimcitoLOL, i will just laugh at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conando
My post is mostly intended for SE Technical employees.
They do know it is technically feasible -
12-13-2021, 01:36 AMSwimcitoStandard contracts suffice lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ijuakos_xqwzts
Even if people talk about the outages and stuff..
They do have 99.99+% uptime.
They can get Azure or AWS and they are pretty much covered, even if naysayers say otherwise.
Probably a good idea to get Azure, to not "feed" the competition -
12-13-2021, 01:48 AMXerkrosis
Would be enough if there was an automated re-queue, instead of giving up immediately and closing client. You know, like other games and services do.
The time to regain your old queue position is too short. Reopening client, typing in password & authenticator, and from here on hammering Numpad 0 until you're back in. And don't let me mention when you happen to grab a sandwich or do something else at home while waiting. -
12-13-2021, 01:52 AMSwimcitoAlso this. Dont know why the Launcher "Closes" when we launch the game... and why it doesnt auto log us... we have to click "Start Game" and allQuote:
Originally Posted by Xerkrosis
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12-13-2021, 01:52 AMLarirawielIf the server software is not prepared to run in a cloud environment then it should not be done. Because then it will have poor performance and stability. And the second thing is, nobody knows on which architecture the server software runs. If it is something very exotic then it will be impossible to get it in the cloud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swimcito
Cheers -
12-13-2021, 01:53 AMForctyusGoldits not about Yoshi or the Devs. its only and only about SQUARE ENIX...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf
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12-13-2021, 02:01 AMKitKatnip
As others have mentioned, if they could just patch it so the error doesn't close out the client and log you off, everyone would not be so angry about it.
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12-13-2021, 02:07 AMKyrj
I never realized how old the community was until all these posts started popping up with "JuSt UsE tHe ClOuD"
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12-13-2021, 02:24 AMDivinemights
They did fixed 2002 issue on their end but as explained, 2002 is a 2 sides issue
If your connection is slow/unstable, you get 2002 as well and that is not fixable from SE's end
After they applied their fix, my 2002 reduced from 8 times into 2 times -
12-13-2021, 02:43 AMRetrisarThey said at start that its mostly our fault ( and it wasn't ) . They said that they fixed.. yet 2002 still is live and kicking . I wouldn't trust in everything that they said .Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
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12-13-2021, 02:49 AMHavenchild
This dude is the clouds biggest spokesperson.
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12-13-2021, 03:02 AMLarirawielSorry but this is not true. Even with a perfect connection the 2002 error can occur. It is built-in in the game client. Here is a good explanation:Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1..._OdCBfejk/edit
SQEX should fix this ASAP.
Cheers -
12-13-2021, 03:21 AMDivinemightsDid I said perfect connection won't have 2002?Quote:
Originally Posted by Larirawiel
I pretty sure i said i had 8 and reduced to 2
You are using a internet shared by a neighborhood and there will be spike especially during prime time, especially everyone stay at home right now due to Covid concern.
Tell me how you are going to fix this as a game company then since you thinks yourself is so smart -
12-13-2021, 04:00 AMRetrisarReduced from 8 to 2... not sure how this is a improvement, you still get kick being in queue - and if you not babysitting your pc … back to 6k queue to start over .Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
Here's the thing - since im a customer ( bought game ) and playing sub on top on that i've got right to demand that service was available. If somehow you wont get water supply - are you also would sit quiet and said .. well its Covid, probably its a Pipe shortage or something so i can wait , who need a shower or drink. -
12-13-2021, 04:08 AMKes13a
OP, as presented to you on another thread....
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/443994
they did look at a cloud solution, it was not considered feasible or reliable. so.. present the cloud solution as many times as you want.. but simply not going to happen. -
12-13-2021, 04:10 AMHasratBecause 2 is smaller than 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrisar
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12-13-2021, 04:21 AMDivinemightsWhich hellhole are you living in right now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrisar
I hope it is just a bad comparison you are giving because you are comparing a chip shortage (manufacturing by foreign entity) to a base living needs (responsible by local government), comparing a high tech part manufactured at foreign to a cheap pipe produced locally.
2002 has a lot of unidentifiable variables, if SE is able to reduce 8 to 2, yes, under current situation I will accept it because reality there is no resolution until either Covid is gone or TMSC/Samsung is able to increase their prodcuctity (in which i doubt).
Yes, I play fallout 4/ps5 games/FGO while lying on sofa and pay attention to que occassionally while waiting for 6,500 que to Levithan every night.
Am I angry?
Not really, i foreseeing this after mass WoW exodus, SE sold out digital copy, and all youtubers are paring FF14.
Frustrated, yes, sometimes, but it is something can cope with -
12-13-2021, 04:21 AMRazkine_Blazehawk
They can use the cloud to increase the capacity of the login servers. as i understand it, are the login servers overloaded, and therefore a part of the 2002 error
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12-13-2021, 04:23 AMDivinemightsIt doesn't really helpQuote:
Originally Posted by Razkine_Blazehawk
If login server don't give you 2002 and server is 100% full.
You are just going to see people complain about cant even get a que at all -
12-13-2021, 05:40 AMPacketdancer
So, a couple things (speaking as someone who used to work in the games industry, including on MMOs):
- Splitting a game's various servers across physical data centers is often problematic; from the point-of-view of the client, yes, if the servers were in City A and then the dungeon servers were in City B, it's still just a connection either way. But internally, you need communication between the servers; transferring your character data to/from instance servers, as an example, or allowing your linkshells and FC chat to continue even when you're in an instance. The amount of traffic between those servers is fairly high; that's not a problem when they're in the same physical datacenter, but moving the traffic between physical locations across normal Internet connections could have some hefty performance implications. So you want all the servers associated with the Primal data center, for instance, to be in the same physical location. (Granted, this is speaking in general about how MMO architectures work, so maybe there are caveats that would make it possible with FFXIV, but I'm not holding my breath there that they've solved that particular problem.)
- Given the above, that means to use "the Cloud" -- i.e., virtualized servers -- for a given in-game DC, you need to move the entire DC into "The Cloud" (to keep a given data center virtualized on real-hardware in the same physical data center) and start paying for virtual CPU time. All of which could dramatically increase the cost of the game's operation, as opposed to buy-once-and-set-up hardware, and which would almost certainly necessitate a major downtime to actually perform that migration. Worse still, an MMO server has fairly high performance requirements -- as it is, any little hiccups in server performance will absolutely get noticed at the higher-end of content, like savage raiding -- so you're going to be at the highest tier of pricing for any sort of virtualization in the first place. (And it still might have performance quirks, because virtualization is what it is.)
- The alternative -- and arguably the correct choice -- is, obviously, to buy more dedicated hardware. Square-Enix already attempted this -- based on what they said in a couple of the announcements, they offered to play multiple times list price to suppliers -- but have still hit walls. The chip shortage just means that the high-end server hardware they require just isn't there to buy. They could, one presumes, take all the servers they have managed to amass thus far for the Oceanic data center, divide them up, and ship them to the existing data centers... but that hardly seems fair to the Oceanic folks, who are already having to wait longer than planned since the same hardware shortage means that Square-Enix hasn't quite gotten all the servers they need for that data center as it is. Repurposing those servers would require pushing the Oceanic data center out even further, or cancelling it entirely. Even with that, they'd have to ship all that hardware to the other data centers, which would take time.
This doesn't mean they didn't have any options, mind you. Just not any good ones.
It is standard practice in many scenarios where you have live services and need to test deploying them to have dev-test hardware; you can roll out a new build to that hardware, make sure it all upgraded properly and everything's working, and then roll out the new build to the real live servers. Square-Enix does that... or did, in the past. Right now, based on their announcements, they're flying without much of a safety net because they took all those dev-test servers and repurposed them for login servers. (Hence the increase of login queue from 17k to 21k.)
That strikes me as a bit gutsy; it goes well beyond what many companies would do, as it means there is the potential for problems in rollouts of hotfixes -- they're more likely to have to take the servers down, and to do so for longer when they do, to ensure things don't go wrong. But I don't really see that they had a lot of other choices, and that hardware was right there already.
(I suspect they've also repurposed some of the housing instance servers in the same way -- i.e., the machines that normally handle the interior of a personal house or apartment -- because it seems possible to run up against a limit where there are no housing instances that can be allocated; you try to go into your FC house or personal house and get an error, which is not something I'd ever seen before. But that's just a gut feeling, as I haven't seen anything official said about it anywhere, and the inability to enter a house sometimes might be something only tangentially related.)
This sucks, no lie. And as a player, I'm like "C'mon, I want you to fix this." I've been trying to log in for the past 4 and a half hours, which is frustrating. But hey, I've got time to write really long posts on the forum instead of throwing myself back into that new extreme trial?
But as an engineer -- moreover, one with experience working in precisely this field (before crunch time began to destroy my soul) -- I honestly cannot think of a good way they can, at least not without massive caveats attached. (Like "cancelling the Oceanic data center" or whatnot.)
I gotta feel for them, because they had carefully planned for the Endwalker launch last year, worked to make sure they'd have server capacity, etc. And then came COVID-19 and hardware shortages, but still, they'd been ready ahead of time! And then the influx of new players this past spring and summer spiked past what the Endwalker numbers were projected to be; all that Endwalker prep meant that when we suddenly developed queues, they were still really short ones. ("56 people in queue." and whatnot.) But the Endwalker influx on top of that is... just... unprecedented.
None of this makes the situation acceptable, mind you, much less enjoyable.
But you can have an unacceptable situation and still not have any sort of reasonable path to resolve it without creating a bunch of other problems... and I strongly suspect that's where Square-Enix is, right now.
Which is a terrible situation, both for the devs and for the players. -
12-13-2021, 05:42 AMHayden
The important thing is for you to yell as loud as you can and open as many threads as possible. That'll fix it.....
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12-13-2021, 05:44 AMChiapet
Im so fed up with getting down to 50 and getting 2002 loggin in back in in less then a min and ending back in 4k+ ... im so fed up...I waited so long I'm in tears I just cant..
Who ever the big wig in SE (not YoshiP) that didn't want to spend money on servers back where there was still queues in 2019.. try to say this as nice as i can.. I don't like you... -
12-13-2021, 05:45 AMChiapetLet people vent. we're frustrated. We're tired and fed up. We need an outlet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayden
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12-13-2021, 05:53 AMKyrjThat's not how it works. The cloud isn't some magic cure all for servers there's a lot of work that goes into using it for w/e your server needs are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razkine_Blazehawk
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12-13-2021, 06:45 AMRizon
To the OP. I see several problems to your proposed solution.
1. You are assuming that cloud service providers have sufficient capacity sitting around and available to cover the game and all thhe players worldwide. Don't think so.
2. As this game iks considered to be global and players can move from region to region the cloud service needs to be uniform in structure to allow for the smooth transfer of player information. This is highly unlikely
as each region has its own standards
The only thing I somewhat agree with you is that SE needs to shoulder their fair share of the blame and stop placing sole responsibility on the players and their ISPs. If their systems where up to snuff the occasional loss of packets
would have no effect on service....or are they telling me that once we are in game we never lose a packet? -
12-13-2021, 06:50 AMRoxiu
I wonder what would happen if the forums would automatically Black List posts of this subject? Oooh man, I shudder to think of the hysteria that would follow.
I agree the 2002 error is frustrating but you're acting like SE is doing nothing to alleviate the problems even if a small workaround or band-aid fix is implemented. They've done just that and are looking for ways to do more. I think you're comparing a company like SE to Blizzard/Activision in the way (they) have handled things like this in the past. Difference is? SE has already implemented solutions, and they have already made improvements. Albeit small improvements, but improvements nonetheless. -
12-13-2021, 06:55 AMRizonThis is not a case of SE being unwilling to spend for upgrades. It's a case of there being no assets to spend the funds for. SE has repeatedly stated that they would spend premium $ for assets trhere are just none available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiapet