[Ongoing Thread] Endwalker Lore Questions [Spoilers]

After finishing EW I have a couple of lore questions but instead of making a thread for every single one of them I thought I could just start an ongoing thread in which players answer each other's questions.

So everyone else who has lore questions, feel free to just ask them here.

Obviously this thread is gonna be full of spoilers! :)

My questions:

1. So why exactly was Zodiark needed?

On the moon we get an explanation about the aether flows/streams/nets engulfing the planet (I play in German so I don't know what the game calls them in English) by the moon warden.
S/he says that the outer "streams", the astral streams, were damaged during The Final Days.
At places where the streams were particularly damaged, the effects of The Final Days manifested.

To this one NPC (I forgot which one) says something along the line of
"So they created Zodiark to repair/balance those astral nets out. Because he is a primal of darkness."

I've tried to read up on the aether lore/system of FF14 and honestly I don't understand it?
I've read that Astral and Umbral are the "polarities" aether can have.
Is it correct that Astral is Light and Umbral is Darkness (umbra = shadow)?
So if the Astral flow = the Light flow is already weakened, why do you need to summon a primal of Darkness to balance it out? Should that not tip the imbalance even further away from the Astral polarity?


2. How are Ascians reborn?

We learn that the souls of unshattered Ascians go back into the lifestream, too.
Later we hear some characters talk about how they hope Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus will be reborn sometime in the future (am I messing this up? I think that was stated, right?).

But how exactly would they be reborn? Just as Ascians? Or is that out of question now that their original world is gone?

(I don't know how rebirth works in FF14. Can any soul just be thrown back into the living world again, no matter the circumstances of the current world? Or is there some kind of sentience/controlled decision behind this?
E.g., the Ascians' civilisation is gone, the era of their people is over and their original world - the unsundered planet - doesn't exist anymore?
Or could it have anything to do with the planet's aether structure? The original unsundered planet, the Ascian habitat, had a completely different aether structure, so maybe there was some kind of "attraction" between the aether of the original planet and the Ascians' souls that pulled them back from the lifestream?)

I would theorise they can't be reborn as mortals, because the aether constellation and denseness of their soul is different from that of mortals/shattered Ascian souls, right?
(It's stated their presence contains a lot more aether (which hinders them from being taken over by Dynamis and only their magic of creation is affected) than that of mortal beings.)


3. So which "version" of time travel happened?

I know, time travel never really makes sense anyway but at least I want to understand in which way it doesn't make sense. :P

Is it the one-way time travel, which means that before we travel Venat/Hydaelin, Hermes, Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus have never met the WoL and after I return I'm technically in a different future?
Or is it the loop time travel? So the time-travel already affects the original timeline to begin with, Hydaelin already knows everything and my time-travel is already pre-determined? (Kinda like the time turner in Harry Potter.)

I know, technically the game says our action could change the actions in the future (but not the events/outcomes) implying that originally none of it has taken place.

But then there's something I don't understand about the original time-line:

How did Hydaelin know the Elpis flowers are the key? Did she just somehow Find Out with her Goddess primal powers that Dynamis is the cause and remembered that Hermes had been researching Dynamis but she didn't know the details?


4. In the timeline altered by time-travel (no matter whether it's the new timeline or it has always been like this because of a loop) how did Amon actually get Fandaniel's memories back?

I know they try to explain it after the dungeon but it's still not entirely clear to me.
So Hermes has forgotten everything when he is the Fandaniel in the altered timeline because of the Kairos but he does not die, so his soul doesn't return to the lifestream and his memory loss shouldn't be reversed. He is however sundered. So the soul "shard" dies and is reborn which causes fragments of the memories to return.
And when he gets the crystal of Fandaniel everything finally comes back to him. I assume these Ascian crystals are similar to job crystals which can hold the memories of their previous owners?
But that crystal is from the Fandaniel who never had his memories re-established, e.g., by death so how can Amon get all these memories back in a time-line where time-travel/Kairos happened? Is it enough when a soul shard is reborn? Can that undo the Kairos effect in the Fandaniel Crystal's memory aether?

My assumption regarding the old time-line is that Fandaniel knew about Meteion's prediction and actions but purposefully kept the Convocation in the dark, just like Emet, Hythlo and Venat speculate when you are in Elpis. So the Amon of the original time-line should inherit a crystal whose memories are intact.

My main concern after the MSQ:

What's gonna be going on with hydael- er.. Eitherys's aether, and the environment that relied on it, after we directly tapped into the mothercrystal several times to get to the literal end of the universe? Was killing hydaelyn/zodiark enough to replace some of that aether? Is dynamis/akasa going to be a more prominent feature to the world? (in a less apocalyptic way) Is this how we're going to reset the power levels?

I don't know just how much of the crystal was used, but burning enough to get two "vehicles" to the edge of the universe in such a short time could not have been insignificant.

My 2 gil:

1.

Darkness/Umbral is the polarity of action and Light/Astral is stasis. Zodiark was required because his vast umbral energy charges the aether batteries of the planet, preventing the aetherial fields from weakening.

2.

All dead beings are sent back to the lifestream to await rebirth. They could be broken up or be reborn with same soul. Both are possible but I’d imagine the unsundered will never be reborn whole.

3.

Alexander seemed to establish stable time loops where time travel always happened. I like that idea best and it makes things neater. If not, then it could lead to potential future content like Wings of the Goddess and Abyssea from FFXI.

Edit: I remembered that Shadowbringers exists due to a non-loop type of time travel and there’s now 2 separate timelines with that. But my point still stands that I like stable time loops better and considering Venat’s behavior, I believe that’s the type we’re dealing with.

4.

I believe it’s enough that they were reborn since earlier it’s established that very strong memories can be etched into the soul even after death and rebirth.

Per your first question:

The aether streams were slowing to a halt, allowing Dynamis energy through, so they needed to be kicked back into normal speed. Zodiark was created as a primal of Darkness, which we know to be "activity," in opposition to Light's "stasis," in order to keep the flow of aether regulated, shielding the entire planet from the influence of Dynamis.

Per your third question:

It's a loop. While we attempted to create a branching timeline in order to save the Ancients as we did the First, we failed, and indeed our intervention helped set events in motion. Venat kept her memories and knew all of this would happen, and chose to sacrifice the Ancients as well as seven shards and the entire Convocation, all so that we might find a way to fight back against Meteion. Hydaelyn references our ancient promise in her first scene this expac, long before we go back, indicating we had already made it in the timeline she remembers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roda

My main concern after the MSQ:

What's gonna be going on with hydael- er.. Eitherys's aether, and the environment that relied on it, after we directly tapped into the mothercrystal several times to get to the literal end of the universe? Was killing hydaelyn/zodiark enough to replace some of that aether? Is dynamis/akasa going to be a more prominent feature to the world? (in a less apocalyptic way) Is this how we're going to reset the power levels?

I don't know just how much of the crystal was used, but burning enough to get two "vehicles" to the edge of the universe in such a short time could not have been insignificant.

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I can't answer these questions directly but I might have some interesting points regarding

Dynamis.

My friend speculates that Dynamis is essentially the magical equivalent of dark matter/dark energy: Not only is it a magical force that is most prominent "between the stars", the MSQ dialgoue also states that 68% of space consists of Dynamis. It is also very mystical/hardly understood and difficult to pick up for aether-based beings.

These are exact parallels to dark energy.

See NASA:

"Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. "

Aether on the other hand seems to be the magical equivalent to matter, considering that it flows through everything consisting of physical matter (living beings, plants, food, the planet itself).

Of course both have their magical properties that go beyond the physical forces (Dynamis reacting to thoughts and feelings and Aether extending to the soul...which should also include thoughts and feelings I guess?).

But because of these parallels I wonder if Dynamis can ever really replace Aether in its fullest form, just like dark matter can't just replace matter. The question is how analogous to their physical counterparts they are supposed to be or to what extend magic makes them different from their physical inspirations.

Of course we have seen that Dynamis can create "matter-based" beings like the monsters or Meteion but at the same time it also seems to be a force that is elusive and hard to control, so a world that is still originally based on aether/is built to funamentally tun on aether might have a hard time just completely "switching" to Dynamis as a new source.
On the other hand, Hermes has also found a way to control it, so well even that he was able to create life from it. Maybe scholars and scientists like those from Radz-at-Han can ultimately find ways to use Dynamis as an aether replacement and channel it into the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I can't answer these questions directly but I might have some interesting points regarding

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I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who was thinking about that!

When he said that most of the universe is Dynamis, my brain immediately went there and I think they made that comparison on purpose or at least were inspired by dark matter. Maybe someone on the writing team even read something accidentally on dark matter and thought “this would actually work for our game if we change the names around.”

I can try to answer

1.

I think Zodiark was used to balance aether and form a shield against the dynamis song. It was the best solution the Ascians could come up with. It's why Venat kept him alive and imprisoned him, she knew he had to stay alive so future people coild find out how to stop Meteion.

2.

Not completely sure. Unsundered don't really die unless their aether gets destroyed. Then their souls reincarnate like everyone else. Everyone else who's sundered gets reincarnated separately on each of the shards. Peoples aether tend to combine and form new souls with the old souls

3.

It's a closed time loop. It'll happen forever. Only Venat is aware and she was meant to be aware. The timeline doesn't change and there's no alternate reality where the Ascians beat Meteion in their time. Venat knew the only way to save Eitherys was in our time, because Ascians can't use Dynamis but by sundering the world their descendants could evolve the ability.

4.

The timeline was never altered by time travel. What you did always happened. Hermes got his memories back upon dying, and when Emet-Slech and the other Unsundered united Amon with his other shard souls to bring back Fandaniel that is when Hermes regained his memories.

I have a question about the very end.

Is Meteion still alive and became a bird?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Per your first question:

The aether streams were slowing to a halt, allowing Dynamis energy through, so they needed to be kicked back into normal speed. Zodiark was created as a primal of Darkness, which we know to be "activity," in opposition to Light's "stasis," in order to keep the flow of aether regulated, shielding the entire planet from the influence of Dynamis.

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Aah, I see. Maybe that was lost in translation because in the German version I understood it as "weakened"/the aether becoming lesser, but if the streams come to a halt, then that would mean the opposite, namely that there is too much light which causes stasis, is that correct? Then a primal of darkness makes sense, of course. Thank you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fenral

Per your third question:

It's a loop. While we attempted to create a branching timeline in order to save the Ancients as we did the First, we failed, and indeed our intervention helped set events in motion. Venat kept her memories and knew all of this would happen, and chose to sacrifice the Ancients as well as seven shards and the entire Convocation, all so that we might find a way to fight back against Meteion. Hydaelyn references our ancient promise in her first scene this expac, long before we go back, indicating we had already made it in the timeline she remembers.

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Thanks! I didn't remember that detail tbh but it makes sense. Overall I was also under the impression that the original time-line was already based on the knowledge of the time-travel but some lines by Elidibus and the NPCs in Elpis really threw me off.

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@MikkoAkure and @iheartlove42

Thank you very much, as well! :)

I'm not going to quote the replies but they're very helpful, esp. because I haven't played Alexander.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartlove42

Peoples aether tend to combine and form new souls with the old souls

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You mean as in, the different soul shards of the same sundered person that are scattered across the 14 shards can combine in the lifestream? (But they essentially stay the same person.)

Or do you mean the souls of two or more people can just merge into a completely different person?
This would mean there is not really such a thing as a continuous soul and whether you are reborn or disintegrate into "personless" aether for the creation of new souls is pretty much a gamble or some kind of soul Russian roulette?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartlove42

Is Meteion still alive and became a bird?

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I think the game implies it, although I'm not sure whether she still exists as a physical being or is purely a metaphysical Dynamis entity.
But besides the bird symbolism at the very end after finishing the "talk to everyone and disband the scions" quest I want to believe that she is the one who activates and drops the teleporter on you when you have fought Zenos. After we defeat the Endsinger it doesn't look like she is destroyed or in the process of dying. She seems fine and then decides to "sing a song" which I interpreted her as using "good Dynamis" (although I'm not sure of the purpose? To heal our planet? To stop the transformations?), but not as dying. And our rescue from Zenos happens after that.
Maybe she is now travelling as a formless entity to see the world with her own eyes and live in a way that Hermes hoped someone would teach her and that we eventually did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who was thinking about that!

When he said that most of the universe is Dynamis, my brain immediately went there and I think they made that comparison on purpose or at least were inspired by dark matter. Maybe someone on the writing team even read something accidentally on dark matter and thought “this would actually work for our game if we change the names around.”

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Sorry, there is a bug that tells me my reply is shorter than 10 characters if I put it behind the spoiler formatting.

I am actually really happy that this is (most likely) a conscious parallel. Tbh, before I had become aware of it, Dynamis seemed like kind of a "cheap" solution? As in, suddenly there is this other magical force that conveniently nobody has really heard of and that is hard to control or to perceive but it's super powerful. I also considered their explanation of "it reacts to feelings/thoughts but aether can do the same but it is also not like aether" a bit lack-luster and not intuitive to understand, what it is even supposed to represent. It felt kind of out of place and as if they just needed to introduce *something* surprising to drive the story into an unexpected direction.
But if it mirrors a real world concept that is somewhat understandable then it feels a lot more natural and native to the world. Not that we understand dark matter, but we can contextualise it and integrate it in our understanding of the world. It has a reasonable "place" in the interplay of natural forces now and is not just Magical Plot Device A.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loggos

You mean as in, the different soul shards of the same sundered person that are scattered across the 14 shards can combine in the lifestream? (But they essentially stay the same person.)

Or do you mean the souls of two or more people can just merge into a completely different person?
This would mean there is not really such a thing as a continuous soul and whether you are reborn or disintegrate into "personless" aether for the creation of new souls is pretty much a gamble or some kind of soul Russian roulette?

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The souls of two or more people can merge to create new souls. That or their aether combines. Not completely sure. I think though everyone involved kinda experiences consciousness as that person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loggos

I've tried to read up on the aether lore/system of FF14 and honestly I don't understand it?
I've read that Astral and Umbral are the "polarities" aether can have.
Is it correct that Astral is Light and Umbral is Darkness (umbra = shadow)?
So if the Astral flow = the Light flow is already weakened, why do you need to summon a primal of Darkness to balance it out? Should that not tip the imbalance even further away from the Astral polarity?

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Correcting a misconception here, as per a conversation with Urianger in Shadowbringers.

Light is Umbral (the Aether of Inaction and Stasis. Thus why Alexander, a Primal of Holy Light, can stop Time.) Darkness is Astral (the Aether of Action and Motion).

Elements of motion (Wind, Fire and Lightning) "naturally" take Astral forms (though Umbral incarnations exist. A raging wildfire is Astral Fire, while the stiffling heat of the desert is Umbral Fire), and Elements of stasis (Water, Earth and Ice) "naturally" prefer Umbral forms (though again, Astral incarnations can exist. A rampaging blizzard is Astral Ice, while the all pervading cold of Coerthas or Garlemald are Umbral Ice).

This neatly ties into White and Black Magic using (or in the case of White, having once used) 2 elements of one type, and 1 of another. White Mages use Stone and Water which are umbral elements, and Wind which is astral. Black Mages meanwhile use Fire and Thunder which are Astral, and Ice which is Umbral.

This thread has a really nice and easy to understand writeup, but they're basically like the polarities of electric charge (Positive or Negative). Some things naturally possess a charge tending to one direction, but can be influenced in the other.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/392704

Ooh ok, calling light Umbral (=shadow) felt very counter-intuitive to me, haha. Thank you for the information! :)


Another question:

Does "Meteion" mean anything?

Considering most other concepts and characters in Elpis have names that refer to either Greek philosophy (entelechy, dynamis) or mythology (Hermes, Hades) and the planets/zones in Ultima Thule are named after Greek numbers (deka pente/dekapénte, deka octo/dekaochtó, deka hexi/dekaéxi) I wondered whether her name either means anything translated directly or is constructed from several Greek words (or words from another language).

"Meteio" is Greek for "meteor," which is also basically what Hermes says. "Meteion" might either be a variant that ye olde Google Translate can't pick up, or they tweaked it it to keep it from being spelled the same as "Meteo," which is the Japanese name for the spell "Meteor."

Oh, I see. Thank you! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loggos

Ooh ok, calling light Umbral (=shadow) felt very counter-intuitive to me, haha. Thank you for the information! :)

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Yeah, Thancred has a similar reaction when Urianger mentions this.

Astral and Umbral are the source terms for these. Astral, the active; and Umbral, the passive. Urianger asked what the people of the First call them

Urianger: "I was told that as life's myriad colors combine to produce black, the active pole had been termed "Darkness". While Peace and Tranquility being as purest white unmarred by color, the passive pole had given the name of "Light"."

Thancred: "That's Umbral Light and Astral Darkness, yes? ... I'm no Aetherologist, but it strikes me that the nomenclature of the First is rooted in the origin of these forces, while our own is focused on the effect. Which makes me wonder... Have we had it backwards all this time?"


Edit: which actually mirrors a real life thing in the history of the study of electrical charge. When Benjamin Franklin wrote the convention on electrical charge, he wrote down that the static charge left on silk by glass was *positive*, since it was represented by a buildup of static electricity. We now know for certain however, that static charge and lightning are representations of *negative* charge. (Electrons are negatively charged). The idea that the thing that is represented by a surplus of energy seeking a way out was *negative* rather than positive was, well... Absurd at the time. Franklin's observations were based on the effects of a charge, not the origin.