So what's the current ranking, personal DPS and group/raid?
Personal interests me, because I'm doing deep dungeons as healer.
Healer DPS
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12-07-2021, 07:36 PMShironeko_NarunyanHealer DPS
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12-07-2021, 08:46 PMAshua
I would say it is White mage, Scholar, Sage, and Astrologian. With scholar and sage possibly even to slightly below scholar as long as a fairy is only needed healing. Having to weave heals the sage would surpass the scholar most likely very quickly. The scholar is incredibly mobile with its damage and on the trial fights in the story mode of end walker the scholar never really stopped its damage from what I saw with ruin 2, dot, and art of war.
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12-08-2021, 03:16 AMRecon1o6
deep dungeon as healer, i have a feeling sage is gonna be killer solo because of kardia
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12-08-2021, 03:21 AMRisvertasashiDeep dungeons are a bit different because of the low sync and there's other considerations there than just DPS output.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shironeko_Narunyan
As far as groups go, we don't know yet. That should change very soon, but even when it does, please also keep in mind the quality of data will be limited due to wide variances in gear. -
12-08-2021, 04:58 PMAllegor
For being the "aggressive" healer, Sage still doesn't feel as ...bursty as WHM, at least to me. It may end up doing more damage as gear and balancing go on though
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12-14-2021, 04:16 PMShironeko_Narunyan
It's been a few days now, and people had a chance to test out all the jobs. I also heard ACT is back with data.
Are there any new conclusions? -
12-14-2021, 04:38 PMHysterior
For now it seems that for the 2 new trials (Extreme)
rDPS: SGE > SCH > WHM > AST
aDPS and nDPS: SGE > WHM > SCH > AST
While AST is at the bottom overall, it is interesting to note that the 2 top players for rDPS on one of the trials are AST, followed by a slew of WHM (First SGE in 16th place and and first SCH in 56th place)
For the other trial the current top rDPS is a SCH but the top is pretty well mixed, with more WHM represented
Note however that there are still not that many parses and there is twice the amount of SGE parses compared to SCH or AST so it probably skews the data. -
12-15-2021, 03:21 AMLiam_Harper
Statistics are up, so far SGE and WHM are the top for rdps. Sage is more popular in EX than both SCH and AST combined.
Buff healers will likely pull ahead later in the expansion since raid buffs scale well, but for now they're lagging behind. As predicted, Sage and AST are the strongest in terms of overall heal power, but the EX's don't really require GCD healing regardless of your comp so that doesn't matter yet. -
12-15-2021, 05:51 AMRisvertasashiThanks for the heads up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
It also seems Sage has dethroned WHM as the most popular healer. A surprise, as WHM usually has to be pretty bad for other healers to overtake it.
Interestingly, tanks seem to have pulled ahead and are closer to DPS now. Seems those that wanted greater tank DPS superiority over healers eventually got what they wanted. -
12-15-2021, 06:31 AMrewdSage is not the most popular healer, it's the new healer that came out roughly two weeks ago. We will be able to talk about popularity in a meaningful way in the future, not now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
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12-15-2021, 09:14 AMRisvertasashiWell, it currently the most popular healer in endgame content by a wide margin.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
That may change, but that's what it is now. And that it's in endgame does suggest it's not a "level it and leave it" job as people have been suggesting both before and after launch. -
12-15-2021, 09:55 AMrewdPeople are trying new toys and it's weird you are surprised by Sage (and Reaper) being overrepresented. You can't infer anything meaningful from this now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
Those who are interested in harder content will try the new jobs in said content. You are likely to still see an overrepresentation once Savage drops since EX is not quite like Savage. After the first tier drops, things will stabilize and then we will be able to infer meaningful conclusions about popularity, once novelty/honeymoon effect is done. -
12-15-2021, 10:36 AMRisvertasashiI mean, I never claimed that it was going to be the most popular for the whole expac or anything like that. I'm aware it's early in.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
But what you're saying is basically an extended version of what people have been saying all along. Healers are back to instant queues and there's been a continual shortage in party finder, so I think the "honeymoon" period largely already over. Could be wrong because it's still early, but personally, I'm not expecting a huge shift in what healers people are playing at this point. The "just checking it out" people seem to have largely already left.
But for all that said, I do look forward to seeing the savage numbers too. And what will come in the 6.2 savage, and so on. -
12-17-2021, 12:09 PMLiam_HarperIt clearly is in EX. Obviously statistics are subject to change over time, but we're talking about current standings.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
Besides, Sage is ridiculously strong with no cards, fairies or gimmicks to juggle, doesn't pay heal tax like WHM or SCH, has high dps and is reasonably easy to play. Unless they nerf it or rework the other healers I'd be confident in it remaining in the top 2 for popularity. AST and SCH have too many gameplay issues for mass appeal. -
12-17-2021, 09:03 PMrewdIt's good etiquette to quote entire messages because otherwise you are taking things out of context like in this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
There is a big difference between a general statement such as "Sage is the most popular healer and it dethroned WHM" and "SGE is the most popular healer in EX at the moment".
To no one's surprise, Sage, Reaper and Summoner are the most played jobs in EX at the moment.
As I said, if we want to infer anything meaningful about popularity with all-encompassing statements, we have to wait. -
12-18-2021, 12:12 AMLiam_Harper
Sure, no disagreements there. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out. Quite likely WHM will pass out Sage soon enough but who knows.
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12-18-2021, 03:09 AMRisvertasashiDo... you really take that much issue with the term "dethroned?"Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
Sage is the most popular healer in the moment. White mage is "dethroned"/not the most popular. In endgame content is generally implied, because that's the only area where it's measured.
Nowhere was it ever said that this is expected to be permanent.
However, to me at least, it is very much a surprise. This is unprecedented; neither astro nor scholar managed to take the "most popular" spot from white mage at their releases. So I think it's pretty notable that SE finally released a healer that can take that spot away from white mage - without a situation like "white mage is dead last in balance and a difficult savage raid is pushing the meta more than usual."
Doesn't matter if it lasts a week, a month, or the whole tier. It's a new situation, and at least to me, that's interesting. -
12-18-2021, 03:52 AMrewdWhen did I say I have issues with "dethroned"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Risvertasashi
SCH was released together with WHM, as 1.0 and 2.0 really can't be considered the same game. AST was released two years after WHM and SCH, so people weren't really in need of another healer. SGE, however, was released seven years after AST and people were so desperate to feel something fresh in the healing department that they were willing to hype a job that plays the same but with lasers. Not to mention that 3.0 AST was terrible and SGE is not.
It was very obvious that SGE would end up being the most "popular" at the very start of an expansion, just like it was obvious Reaper and Summoner would end up being, respectively, the most played melee and caster. This is what I'm arguing. -
12-18-2021, 04:24 AMRisvertasashiIn the comment I quoted.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
Even if you want to split hairs about 1.0vs2.0, there was still a lot of double-white mage for 2.0 and a fair bit in 2.x.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
A pet healer was also pretty hype at the time. I mean, it's easy for it to seem mundate after we've had it for 8 ish years but "pet healer" is not something you see all that commonly in MMOs.
I'm also pretty curious to see if this hypothesis is true. If we do see a sharp falloff in endgame population of sages, my money would be on this reason being a significant factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
Very true, but AST proved to be niche even long term. As the 5.x series especially highlighted but we saw even before that, even when AST is the strongest healer it stays niche. To force people onto AST, it doesn't just need to be the strongest - balance needs to be exceptionally bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
So I guess there's the implied question of: if AST didn't have launch issues, would it have been the most popular for a bit? Well, it did cause 'DPS in need' in the roulettes for a bit even so, but whether that would have survived to endgame - first ex trials, then raids - is a... very uncertain hypothesis.
AST just doesn't have mass appeal. Mass here being relative to 'among healers' which is a niche category already.
Even with DPS it doesn't always happen. Machinist, for example. Now one might say "launch machinist was very difficult and only the best players could pull good numbers from it", but that doesn't negate the point, that just explains why it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by rewd
That said, yeah, I had a feeling new summoner would be ultra popular with how flashy it is. Reaper I'd have expected to be the most played melee but perhaps not by such a wide margin.
But back to the main point. I don't think it's that obvious that sage was going to make an ultra strong showing. If anything, usually scifi stuff tends to be a bit niche relative to traditional fantasy options so I wouldn't have guessed "healer but with lasers" would be that strong (in other settings it typically isn't); and even if it's "6 years of waiting for something new" at work, I wouldn't have expected it to lead to a sage population that's just as utterly massive as it currently is in the current, albeit limited, endgame. Surprises all around for me.
If anything, I'd have expected SCH to do this back at 2.0; there's a strong tendency for people to get super hyped about pet jobs.
Anyways, I look forward to seeing how much of the population stays or goes and eventually discussing what the longer term results may imply.