Ideas to expand as well create more ways to rank up/enjoy.

Good morning.

Regarding the Tags, will add any and all as the thread moves along.

If at all you found or had a good experience with a method of grind from another game. please add it, this thread is a means to let SE take ideas from, all ideas are welcomed :)

I personally like the guildleves as they stand for a means to gain reward via Gil/items/SP for the more casual player base.

This idea I got from another game as well believe FF12 did same fashion.

This method would make use of the billboard beside the Leve NPC in Uld (the one I know of) as well all cities. To put it simple this billboard would contain all sorts of quests ranging from simple go collect X item, all the way to maybe help kill a NM that is wrecking havoc on a village.

The quest/missions from the billboard would encourage the player base with multiple forms of rewards, via repeatable quests/non-repeatable as well grouped play (very tough creators in need of being dealt with) as well simple quests which can be easily taken on by one individual.

The reward part for these quests would be anything from SP, gil. The amount would be directly effected by the risk involved.

Much like the NM leves the quests will not have the ability to set difficulty also be restricted to rank limitations (if no classes of that rank, the reward will be effected by the rank you complete the quest), some quests will actually force the player base to go find members to help take on the objective.

To help make this clear (so we don't have people getting mad for failing a grouped required quest) the quest log (much like the leves are) will have a rating as well required group (Group of X +, RXX optimal), this can be done in many forms. One idea would be to make a star rating, as well a simple explanation in the wording of the quest itself.

I understand this is just copying the Guildleves and moving them to a different location (to some degree), it will also open up other avenues for grinding/story/lore for other player base groups.

Unlike the Guildleves some of these quests will be only available once or (with low reward) repeatable, can even add circumstances like even time of day to the mix.
Example would be, in the evening hours 20:00 - 8:00 some quests would be available requesting the player to go kill X monster/collect X item.

Some of the quests can be chained together. Helping person X with collecting/killing, they open up more quests or even increase ones fame (like FF11 did). This in turn will open up more quests that can still be linked to story/lore.

For the act or claiming the reward, this can be done in a few methods as well. Directly traveling to the person requesting the quest from the billboard (would be found using the journal "map" option), gaining the reward upon completion of the quest, or by going back to the billboard to receive the reward.

This is just an idea for opening up methods to keep the player base busy while introducing group/solo play.

Looking forward to hearing ideas others might have with opening up ways from which SE can take from, as well ways to increase the enjoyment of playing the game.

Thank you for reading (sorry it is little long :( )

Nice post.

The biggest problem regarding leveling is that there is only one way that really works well, which is doing leves.

Square Enix stated that the leves idea was to make sure that casual players with not too much time could enjoy the game. I think they succeeded on that, no doubt. You can log in, play for 30 minutes an log off again after you actually achieved something in-game.

FFXI was a real MMORPG, you coulnd't reach level cap or do big missions without some friends, while in FFXIV (and WoW) you can reach final cap and do almost all the quests/missions on your own. If I wanted that I would just play FFXIII or Warcraft III. The whole MMO of MMORPG is missing in FFXIV. It feels like a singleplayer game to me ...

While focusing so much on the casual player they totally forgot about FFXI players and hardcore players. Hardcore players are in my eyes pllayers with more time and/or players that just want a bigger challenge while playing the game.

The problem is that no matter how easy Square Enix makes FFXIV you will still have players saying it is too hard and too hardcore and not fair. It is simply how the MMORPG playerbase is since the release of WoW. They expect everything to be handed to them on a silver plate, while they are sitting at the inn drinking a bear.

So, they shouldn't change the whole leves idea too much, but add more ways to level like you say.

The best thing they can add right now is some kind of party based leveling like in FFXI. It will attract the hardcore and FFXI players, while still having the leves option for the more casual players. This shouldn't be too hard to implement after the classes are balanced and the battle system is reworked. All they need to do is make a few spots on a map where there are enough mobs and a high spawn rate to keep the party going.

I agree completely, SE can almost focus on grouped play like they did in FF11. They have the means to keep both sides happy with the guildleves in place, just need more ideas to help SE expand on. :)

Sidequests are already a bit too much like what you proposed, but maybe I misunderstood.

I think leves (when expanded) will make for a good source of primary progression, along with improved Behests. However, they leave something to be desired for solo players, even though you can still mob grind.

To deal with this, dynamic content should do. It doesn't have to be as complex as in Rift, but it should be a good means to gain skill alone (while fighting with others). It is a way to complement the existing systems, in other words. [If they haven't scrapped Hamlet defense battles, that's a good way to accomplish this.]

Since DoL doesn't get as much out of leves as the combat classes, they can be included in this activity.

You are correct Betelgeuzah the side quests do cater to my idea, or vice verse.

Was a different approach as well "hopefully" opening up ideas from the rest of the player base. I understand there is only so many ways to go about the same formula for quests.

Could you explain more on this Hamlet defense battle. would like to hear how it would play out as well might add more insight for others to jump on with ideas of their own.

Well better Behest or new battles are not my first concern at the moment. First they need to make leveling up a bit more of a joy. Leveling in FFXI was way harder than it is in FFXIV, but it was also way more fun than it is in FFXIV. Yes, sitting for 4 hours in Jeuno waiting for a group only to see it disband 30 minutes after you got to camp was annoying, but we have leves to do meanwhile now.

Adding group based leveling and balancing of classes and tuning/revamping the battle system are the three most important things for me at the moment. As soon as they fix that they can start adding more and more content. Content is the easy part, really. The basics of FFXIV are fine, but still not finished, but they really should aim to finish it in about 3 more months.

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Originally Posted by Shadowskill

Could you explain more on this Hamlet defense battle. would like to hear how it would play out as well might add more insight for others to jump on with ideas of their own.

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If it works anything like XI's "dynamic" content the beastmen would attack the Hamlets every once in a while, and the players need to drive them out. Make it work by the clock and often enough, and it should be a viable means of soloing while grouping would still be more efficient.

Adding party based objectives is the win for me. I loved exping in ffXI, even tho trying to find a party a melee DD was tough. A ffXIV has to do is get the party system up to snuff rebalance the classes making them all unique, and after all that is done content will come and it will be fun!!!

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Originally Posted by Macfuzion

Adding party based objectives is the win for me. I loved exping in ffXI, even tho trying to find a party a melee DD was tough. A ffXIV has to do is get the party system up to snuff rebalance the classes making them all unique, and after all that is done content will come and it will be fun!!!

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That .... really its just that ....

Add group based leveling, see how the classes do, balance the classes, add new content ... W I N.

Mob grinding really is a concept that needs to go away.

XI with FoV is better than no FoV. Small goals to work towards is never a bad thing.

Guildleve system can already accomplish what XI accomplished, but yes.. it needs work to be accepted by the community. In the end it can be better than XI's leveling, and I hope the devs don't give up on it.

You have a good point Evenstar, once they get the basics fixed, they can throw down a lot of content. In the mean time we cab always give them ideas to use for ways to bring that content to us.

Even ideas that can open the door for other ways to bring in content, or simple things like a Role player wanting a means to enjoy the landscape more, getting involved with the citizens.

The thread is not limited to just the idea I placed, I am welcoming other ideas that may not even reflect what I posted, only thing I ask for is if you do not agree with another persons idea, don't trash it.

This thread is also welcoming ideas with battle systems, classes. Can always add to the Tag list if required. The thread can act more of a way to brainstorm ideas.

Would love to hear and see what other games came up with in ways of implementing the enjoyment players found, never know. might just strike an idea that SE missed or you yourself might have missed.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

If it works anything like XI's "dynamic" content the beastmen would attack the Hamlets every once in a while, and the players need to drive them out. Make it work by the clock and often enough, and it should be a viable means of soloing while grouping would still be more efficient.

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I love this idea, kind of like how Besiege worked in FF11, forgot the name of the other method. This would help promote exactly what the game would need, also be a lot of fun in the process.

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Originally Posted by Macfuzion

Adding party based objectives is the win for me. I loved exping in ffXI, even tho trying to find a party a melee DD was tough. A ffXIV has to do is get the party system up to snuff rebalance the classes making them all unique, and after all that is done content will come and it will be fun!!!

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Any ideas that could be taken from past game experience help work the system we have at the moment, to increase the ease of partying?

Maybe a way to incorporate the Seek option and search function on top of what we have to allow finding members that are in need of a party?

I agree to some extent with Betelgeuzah that the grinding of monsters could be done away with, doesn't mean it can't be a fun method that still provides enjoyment for some players.

It's important to note that this (dynamic) content should be more easily approachable and offer more consistent rewards than in XI. There it was too random as far as event length and rewards went, and this time they should take that into account.

It would be fantastic if the environment was affected by these attacks in some way, but it is by no means a requirement. In the end it can be one part of the whole "threat approaching Eorzea"-theme as how the whole Vanilla game is set up. Beastmens (and their Primals) and on the other hand Garleans and the Dragons.

Ohhhh damn Betelgeuzah that would be a great method. Maybe one of the cities go under attack. or help fend off the army (helping beast tribes)... many possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Mob grinding really is a concept that needs to go away.

XI with FoV is better than no FoV. Small goals to work towards is never a bad thing.

Guildleve system can already accomplish what XI accomplished, but yes.. it needs work to be accepted by the community. In the end it can be better than XI's leveling, and I hope the devs don't give up on it.

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I see your point, but what is wrong with having both?

There is a group that likes the leves and wants to level doing leves instead of grinding on EXP mobs (solo or in a group). There is another group that enjoy grinding on EXP mobs in a group. It is not only the grinding itself, but the social aspect of it that I miss the most. Right now FFXIV feels like a RPG, not a MMORPG. You do not need to interact with any other player at all to do your leves, sidequests, main scenario quests or to hit the level cap.

There is nothing wrong with having a grinding option while keeping the guildleves as it is (or even make it better, more important). I like the idea of being able to log on for 30 minutes during the week to do a few leves. However I do not like the idea of doing the leves in the weekend when I have, lets say, 4 hours to play. After one hour I am done .... and can do nothing at all to level up properly ... I am sure as hell not going to grind solo on mobs. I will quit the game in a day or two if I end up doing that.

The lore is set up in a way that their possibilities are pretty much endless. Now they just need to... y'know... implement these things!

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I see your point, but what is wrong with having both?

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Now you have both.. and surprise surprise, one is better than the other.

If you think that they can exist equally, you are not looking at this from a very practical point of view.

Further, it is detrimental if the playerbase is split between two primary group-based activities. To be able to do this kind of content you need other people, and if you have half of the server's population doing mob grinding and the other half leves... that's not very practical either.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

The lore is set up in a way that their possibilities are pretty much endless. Now they just need to... y'know... implement these things!



Now you have both.. and surprise surprise, one is better than the other.

If you think that they can exist equally, you are not looking at this from a very practical point of view.

Further, it is detrimental if the playerbase is split between two primary group-based activities. To be able to do this kind of content you need other people, and if you have half of the server's population doing mob grinding and the other half leves... that's not very practical either.

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We have both? Did I miss something? As far as I know there is no effective way to level as a group in FFXIV, because it is not implemented properly. I am not talking about doing guildleves with a group, but the traditional party like in FFXI.

Can you tell me what is wrong with having options and being able to do choose if you want to do guildleves or just grind on mobs with some of your friends? You did not even mention my concern about the game feeling like a RPG instead of a MMORPG.

I agree that FFXI with Fields of Valor is better than FFXI without Fields of Valor. Fields of Valor can be compared to guildleves. So in FFXI you have both group based EXP grinding and Fields of Valor. So why can't we have guildleves and group based EXP grinding in FFXIV? You are not making any sense. Would you like to level to 90 with just using Fields of Valor? In FFXI part based grinding is still number one way to level up (well Abyssea totally changed how the grinding is done, but the basics are the same).

speaking from my ffxi experiance. Quests in ffxi did npt actually take that long. More so with the amount of fast travel ffxi ended up having. I used to play ffxi for 2 hrs a day at max 4 hours a day. With help of a LS I got alot of stuff done. It will and should take you a bit longer, but that should be an issue. As long as you got friends to help, you will still get things done.

My thoughts are keep levequests as is with the counter. But also add counters at the various camps scattered across the maps. This way people don't have to run/warp back to the main cities just to get quests.
Also remove the limitations. Just have the gil/ item reward have limitations. But keep the SP w/o limitations. Make it so also that you have to do levequests around your rank as to prevent spamming the same ones.

This will make levequests more like how Fields of valor is in ffxi. The limitations on gil/items can be once a real life day. Also fix the star to 1 = solo 5= group of 8. and get better stuff if grouped.

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We have both? Did I miss something? As far as I know there is no effective way to level as a group in FFXIV, because it is not implemented properly. I am not talking about doing guildleves with a group, but the traditional party like in FFXI.

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What do you mean by "not implemented properly"? You can make a party, go to dungeons and kill stuff for SP. Mob grinding it is. I don't see what's stopping you.

In FFXI we don't have "both". We have quest grinding, and that's it. "Group based EXP grinding" is a shady concept and can apply to guildleves. Quest grinding and Mob grinding gets the point better across.

evenstsar just so you know. Ppl no longer "just grind mobs" in ffxi. They do fields of valor or dominion. which are pretty much levequests w/o any lore. PPl felt "just grind mobs" were boring. Which was why they made fields of valor. It also can help the casuals by allowing them to solo. FOV and dominion was well resieved which is why ffxiv started with it just under a new name with a bit of a quest text to them. (as seen in vids) And you can still choose. Even with FoV and dominion i would still grind mobs w/o doing them. It all about choice.

I agree with Betelgeuzah that there will be a better option, though Evenstar has a great point. There is nothing wrong with having both systems in place, even if one may be slightly, or even largely better in form or SP/XP gain, the fact that the players will have the option would more then make up for the difference.

There will always be groups that aim for max gain, as well groups that enjoy a more slower pace ( I would fit in this category some nights ).

Point is, there is nothing wrong with having many options to choose from. SE can always filter out systems or tweak if they feel the need to do so.