To anyone disappointed with their jobs/classes

You only have yourself to blame.
Yoshida has gone on record saying not to expect gameplay like Heavensward. Expecting anything more than the bare minimum from the job design team is completely on you. And you'd be right to have those high expections.

I'm posting this here because everyone and their dog browses general discussion.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

You only have yourself to blame.
Yoshida has gone on record saying not to expect gameplay like Heavensward. Expecting anything more than the bare minimum from the job design team is completely on you. And you'd be right to have those high expections.

I'm posting this here because everyone and their dog browses general discussion.

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Because Heavensward was the peak of class design? Is this a troll post?

Dark Knight, Warrior, Scholar, Astrologian, Ninja. These jobs were fun in HW. Dark Knight especially. Some jobs have gotten better over the years, I will not dispute that. Others have been gutted like a cornish game hen in favor of appealing to the masses. That makes me sad.
When I die, I want Yoshida to put my casket in the ground, so he can let me down one last time.

"To anyone disappointed with their jobs/classes"

"You only have yourself to blame."

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

When I die, I want Yoshida to put my casket in the ground, so he can let me down one last time.

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You feel let down ?

Your disappointed?

So you made this post to project ?

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

Dark Knight, Warrior, Scholar, Astrologian, Ninja. These jobs were fun in HW. Dark Knight especially. Some jobs have gotten better over the years, I will not dispute that. Others have been gutted like a cornish game hen in favor of appealing to the masses. That makes me sad.
When I die, I want Yoshida to put my casket in the ground, so he can let me down one last time.

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Heavensward class design was a slight improvement of ARR which was very barebones. Dark Knight was changed because Dark Arts was not a good mechanic. Ninja was changed because the servers did not play well with them. Warrior was nerfed because it was broken in heavensward. I can't speak much for the healers cause I haven't played them enough. Most changes that were done in this expansion removed inconvenient mechanics that the classes had and also address mechanics that did not function well with the server latency.

This is true. I think where the community screwed up is demanding higher quantity job options and not paying any effort towards prioritizing the quality of the job options. Theme park MMOs are always destined to go down this path.

Why don't you take a stroll down to the gameplay forum and see for yourself. A good amount of threads dedicated to Dark Knight and how much it sucks.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

Dark Knight, Warrior, Scholar, Astrologian, Ninja. These jobs were fun in HW. Dark Knight especially. Some jobs have gotten better over the years, I will not dispute that. Others have been gutted like a cornish game hen in favor of appealing to the masses. That makes me sad.
When I die, I want Yoshida to put my casket in the ground, so he can let me down one last time.

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OK, I laughed. I think you missed the boat though. We don't have unique jobs, we have roles. Every job in a role has to fit in the same hole. It means less exclusion of jobs, and boring homogenized designs. I don't know if it was a man power issue or something else entirely.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

Why don't you take a stroll down to the gameplay forum and see for yourself. A good amount of threads dedicated to Dark Knight and how much it sucks.

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When was Dark Knight good?

Back when it wasn't just Warrior Lite.

As someone who suffered through Heavensward gameplay let me just say that I'm glad that era is long gone.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

As someone who suffered through Heavensward gameplay let me just say that I'm glad that era is long gone.

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yeah, who likes anything requiring skill. not you! a generic JRPG story is the most important aspect of MMOs

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Originally Posted by say0

yeah, who likes anything requiring skill. not you! a generic JRPG story is the most important aspect of MMOs

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What skill? Most classes were slightly more complicated than there ARR counterpart which was very simple.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

What skill? Most classes were slightly more complicated than there ARR counterpart which was very simple.

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just managing darkside on 3.0 DRK required more brain power than all of the tanks combined in the current version of the game. and the same goes for every single job except pld which was always braindead, even in HW.

no offense but you're severely out of your depth here.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

I think you missed the boat .

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I was on that boat.
I can still smell the fumes.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Heavensward class design was a slight improvement of ARR which was very barebones. Dark Knight was changed because Dark Arts was not a good mechanic. Ninja was changed because the servers did not play well with them. Warrior was nerfed because it was broken in heavensward. I can't speak much for the healers cause I haven't played them enough. Most changes that were done in this expansion removed inconvenient mechanics that the classes had and also address mechanics that did not function well with the server latency.

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I'm sorry, but did you just say HW DRK was changed because of Dark arts? Do you have any idea how DRK actually changed from HW to SB?
The reason DRK was changed was because it was well made and extremely versatile. Warrior was OP and adequately made, and PLD was pure trash. They knew they couldn't make WAR and PLD into DRK levels of good, so they ruined it and kept that mentality for 3 expacs now.

To say Dark arts was the reason is just lunacy though, all you did in SB was SPAM Dark arts.

I'd say it's always a key point to not expect much when changes are inbound as you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Also make sure that you are prepared to adapt to changes, even if you don't like them at first.

Let's shift gears a little bit.
Would adding layers of complexity provide a more engaging experience with XIV? For example, enemies are more susceptible to status effects (and so are you), physical and elemental stats are brought back, materia can change a weapon's properties and tp is brought back as a resource you have to build instead of having a full bar.

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Originally Posted by say0

yeah, who likes anything requiring skill. not you! a generic JRPG story is the most important aspect of MMOs

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Mandatory content isn't the best place to put skill requirements in the game. You can for single player games I guess but most people don't actually finish single player games, which is a bit different to an MMO Square Enix wants people to keep playing.

Mandatory content is increasingly accessible in modern games with harder content providing a challenge for people who want it. This is to be more mindful of people with physical limitations for example, which might also be why modern MMOs are increasingly seeing a smaller button count. But it's fine to want more harder content, but I'm also happy rotations are becoming simpler.

I said this before but imo the homogenisation of classes is a much bigger issue for me than "this rotation is braindead".

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

I'm posting this here because everyone and their dog browses general discussion.

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I do not have a dog, but if I did, I would not let him anywhere near this cesspool.

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Originally Posted by DinahDemiurge

This is true. I think where the community screwed up is demanding higher quantity job options and not paying any effort towards prioritizing the quality of the job options. Theme park MMOs are always destined to go down this path.

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I think SE would have continued adding new jobs regardless. They help to sell expansions.

I've been having a lot of fun on Reaper c:

I'm an old hand at MMOs, and have come to expect big changes to classes with every expansion. This is why I try not to chain myself to any specific role or job, and try something different every expac; it's bound to be a re-learning event in any case. This may be an abuse response to a certain Cold Themed company performing extreme surgery on my main for 6 years.

I think getting attached to a job and identifying with it is something that can potentially enrich the experience of long-running games such as these. It really can feel like you've gone on a journey as [job]. At the same time, the caveat does exist that ultimately, it is up to the developer to adjust the job as they see fit based on whatever feedback they receive as well as their own personal likes and dislikes. As such, the possibility of a job just not "connecting" with you based on X or Y changes is very real.

It sucks, but it can happen, and well... it is what it is.

I had a fondness for DRK. Enjoyed it very much throughout Heavensward. Come Stormblood, I actually picked up SAM and took it through the MSQ. I thought I'd switch to it as a main but I went back to DRK before 4.1 even came out. While I enjoyed DRK, I didn't like it quite as much as I did back in Heavensward. The DA spam didn't help, but it wasn't really the end-all-be-all of the job for me, especially since I liked TBN and that kinda helped carry the job for me.

Come Shadowbringers and well... let me just say, I didn't really like what I saw in the media tour. Oh, I got really excited at the prospect of being able to summon Fray to fight at my side... but then it hit me that they are just a really pretty DoT. Gone was the parrying, the MP drain of Darkside, the aggro combo, Sole Survivor... Etc... These are examples of little things that just went away over time, but they ultimately came together to shape what the job was for me, and in Shadowbringers, it just didn't connect with me anymore. This time, I took DNC through the MSQ. DRK was the second job I took to 80, and actually getting my hands on it confirmed what I had thought before: over the years, DRK had morphed into a bland, insipid job, and I simply felt no desire to play it beyond leveling it to see its story, which continued to not disappoint with the quality of its writing.

Come Endwalker and well... I have yet to play DRK, but the reaction from what we knew about it before on the media tour was more of an apathetic shrug. When Yoshi-p said something to the effect of the team being satisfied with how certain jobs worked in Shadowbringers and wouldn't receive drastic changes, I figured DRK was in that pool. Sure enough, DRK got an Unmend trait, the ability to plant Salted Earth and its follow up ability at your feet (wow, crazy), another big honkin purple blast attack called Shadowbringer (heh) and... uh... Fray now does Shadowbringer when you reach level 90. Get excited.

I shrugged.

Anyways, all of this to reiterate what I said at the beginning: It's fine to connect with a job as you go, but always bear in mind that it can change at any point. You shouldn't grit your teeth through it. If it becomes unenjoyable to you and/or it loses the identity you perceived it to have, then... try to let it go.