Mixed feelings about tank dps nerf in EW

I know the devs have discussed a while to bring down tanks' overall dps. Now looking at the numbers from the official updated job guide, I sort of understand the reason but I have to raise a question, wouldn't that make tank jobs questing a lot more tedious?

Sure, you gather all mobs and aoe compared to dps one at a time, but I would rather do the latter then spamming aoe over and over and over again, especially now the potency is nerf by half...

Updated at 2:56am. Thanks for the explanations from many of you! This will be my "first expansion" with ffxiv! Good luck and have fun in queue:)

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Originally Posted by LitheSuxman

I know the devs have discussed a while to bring down tanks' overall dps. Now looking at the numbers from the official updated job guide, I sort of understand the reason but I have to raise a question, wouldn't that make tank jobs questing a lot more tedious?

Sure, you gather all mobs and aoe compared to dps one at a time, but I would rather do the latter then spamming aoe over and over and over again, especially now the potency is nerf by half...

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It wasn't just tanks that had their potencies nerfed, everyone did. It was an across the board damage nerf so tanks will be fine. They might do a little less percentage wise compared to dps, but considering how much the DPS potencies were reduced I don't think it's by much.

In order to accommodate the stat squish (I'm assuming at least), every job across every role had a potency nerf. Tanks are fine.

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Originally Posted by LitheSuxman

wouldn't that make tank jobs questing a lot more tedious?

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If tanks feel tedious about that, what do you think healers feel?

They already mentioned that we shouldn't make a big deal about the potency changes because changes to both gear stats and damage calculations would leave our effective damage output similar to what it was originally.

Keep in mind the damage calculations changed for physical vs magcal damage potencies. Each point of potency should be similar between physical and magical now, whereas each individual point of magical potency used to be "worth" more.

This makes jobs that mainly do physical damage appear to be nerfed, though they'll be doing comparable damage (adjusted to stat squish) to what they were doing before the changes.

I get it though. If tank and healer DPS is too good it reaches a point where it's like "why is DPS even mandatory anymore" sometimes. Especially for normal content.

It's just gonna take a while to getting used to our numbers being so low visually. I'm gonna miss being able to deal 60000+ damage at level 50 Blu, not to mention some of the stuff I'd see as Bard and Paladin.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Keep in mind the damage calculations changed for physical vs magcal damage potencies. Each point of potency should be similar between physical and magical now, whereas each individual point of magical potency used to be "worth" more.

This makes jobs that mainly do physical damage appear to be nerfed, though they'll be doing comparable damage (adjusted to stat squish) to what they were doing before the changes.

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Perhaps, but I've noticed a lot of physical dps across the board had their aoe damage reduced much more than their single target abilities, and in some cases the single target abilities even had their potency increased. Additionally certain mechanics, like the way bard songs proc, have been significantly nerfed in cases where you're dealing with more than one enemy. I'm really hoping they're not trying to nerf wall to wall dungeon pulls, cause that's the easily the most entertaining way of doing dungeons.

Oh, and one of the more baffling trends I'm noticing is an increase in non-combo potency while combo potency of the same ability is reduced. Are there people out there just hitting buttons randomly who needed a dps boost? What's the story there I wonder.

Pretty much what have been said, also keep in mind that the stat reduction also applies to mobs. So you'll do less damage but mobs will have way less health.
Also I don't know if you've been around for other expansions, but you'll feel extra weak until at least the first patch. It's always been the same considering everyone is in min ilvl from lvl80 and up and we'll have only access to the cheap gear until the 6.0.1
But I still expect people will be complaining about it regardless as it is tradition, might be even worse this time around with the stat squish and the large influx of new players.

Stat Squish and them trying to equalize physical and magical damage. So how effective everyone's DPS is remains kind of uncertain for now.

All Physical attacks are seeing a decrease in potency, but they should in turn be getting better scaling with stats and weapon's Physical Damage.

from what i can see everything but Ninja Hyosho has been nerfed
ninja get to keep a 1200 pot move but SAM senei gets nerfed

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Originally Posted by Duskane

from what i can see everything but Ninja Hyosho has been nerfed
ninja get to keep a 1200 pot move but SAM senei gets nerfed

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Well SAM gets a new nuke in Ogi Namikiri and Naeshi Namikiri, being a combo of 800 and 1200, and it's not even on the same CDs as Setsugekka.

Basically, what I'm seeing the full combo of big hits for SAM would be Midare Setsugekka (660) -> Kaeshi: Setsugekka (990) -> Senei (800) -> Ikushoten -> Oni Namikiri (800) -> Naeshi Namikiri (1200) -> Shoha (580)

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Stat Squish and them trying to equalize physical and magical damage. So how effective everyone's DPS is remains kind of uncertain for now.

All Physical attacks are seeing a decrease in potency, but they should in turn be getting better scaling with stats and weapon's Physical Damage.

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That would be unfair to magical dps for a few reasons

1st mele dps requires no resources
2nd mele dps has no cast timers
3rd: can freely move while doing everything as mele.

So I feel like they shouldn't equalize it as yes magic may do more damage but it has cast timers/resources and many things you have to sit still for.

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Originally Posted by Raven2014

If tanks feel tedious about that, what do you think healers feel?

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I know it's petty and an exaggeration, but when I saw they nerfed Dia's instant damage from 120 to 60, my first thought was "welp, that's one step closer to them just removing our dots now!" because you know, apparently less dps means more time for healing *long, defeated sigh*

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Originally Posted by FusiaRain

That would be unfair to magical dps for a few reasons

1st mele dps requires no resources
2nd mele dps has no cast timers
3rd: can freely move while doing everything as mele.

So I feel like they shouldn't equalize it as yes magic may do more damage but it has cast timers/resources and many things you have to sit still for.

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To be entirely honest, with the introduction of Lucid Dreaming as a Role Ability, MP is hardly an issue unless you go down or have to revive constantly... Though that does still leave cast times, which can leave casters more vulnerable to AoE. But as said, we don't know what exactly it will be like for the damage, I'm just going off what was in the Live Letter 66

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Another adjustment has been made not only to tank jobs, but all physical damage jobs in general. Thus far, FFXIV has used separate battle calculation formulas for physical and magical attacks. Between the two, magical attacks were given a higher base value to compensate for more intricate calculations, but these values will be unified in Patch 6.0. Because the base value of physical attacks will be raised to the same value of magical attacks, action potencies will become smaller. Note that this is simply due to raising the base value used in calculations, so the actual power of the actions won’t be any different from before.

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Originally Posted by Sigiria

Pretty much what have been said, also keep in mind that the stat reduction also applies to mobs. So you'll do less damage but mobs will have way less health.
Also I don't know if you've been around for other expansions, but you'll feel extra weak until at least the first patch. It's always been the same considering everyone is in min ilvl from lvl80 and up and we'll have only access to the cheap gear until the 6.1
But I still expect people will be complaining about it regardless as it is tradition, might be even worse this time around with the stat squish and the large influx of new players.

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Savage Gear unlocks before 6.1, think you got your patches confused.

thinking:

if everything has been brought down, would 1000 needles now destroy everything? it was a great skill for a lot of levels already. now itll be even more effective. and when I first played 2.0 I got killed by the mob that uses it.

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Originally Posted by Rezer

Oh, and one of the more baffling trends I'm noticing is an increase in non-combo potency while combo potency of the same ability is reduced. Are there people out there just hitting buttons randomly who needed a dps boost? What's the story there I wonder.

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Yes.

There are actually a surprising amount of players who essentially play this game by pressing random buttons. I've even seen people who struggle to complete combos attempting to pug TEA (i wish i was joking).

I guess SE is trying to diminish the frustrating impact of having one of those players in your party somewhat? idk still seems weird.

I like the idea to nerf the tanks dps. Because if i play a tank then i do not want to get a crippled dps job.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by _Pigzig

thinking:

if everything has been brought down, would 1000 needles now destroy everything? it was a great skill for a lot of levels already. now itll be even more effective. and when I first played 2.0 I got killed by the mob that uses it.

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Technically, yes. If mobs/everything has less HP, 1000 Needles will do greater proportional damage.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Savage Gear unlocks before 6.1, think you got your patches confused.

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That's a typo, should have been obvious from the context I meant 6.0.1

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Stat Squish and them trying to equalize physical and magical damage. So how effective everyone's DPS is remains kind of uncertain for now.

All Physical attacks are seeing a decrease in potency, but they should in turn be getting better scaling with stats and weapon's Physical Damage.

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The stat squish alone is not what has caused the potencies to change. The big factor is the normalisation of the damage formula between physical damage and magical damage. Before EW, they used 2 different damage calculations, for whatever reason, now, they will use the same one.

This is why you cannot comment on potencies at the moment. The core damage calculation has changed, so 100 potency for a physical job before Endwalker is not the same as 100 potency for a physical job after Endwalker.