New roulette idea: Minimum Item level

I am playing some of since Heavensward and every time I beat an old raid or old dungeon I keep saying to myself "I remember this being harder". The issue is that we are so far past the orignal item level that we can breeze though it. This is good for people catching up but can be boring for people doing content for fun.

I would like to suggest a few new roulette ideas.

-One would be trials / raids synced at minimum item level so that it would be much harder. This could be done for both normal and extremes and it would feel like it was at launch.

-The other would be dungeons synced at Lower item level than pre-required, this could be tuned to be more difficult.

This could make old content feel brand new again while leaving content untouched.

Would these new roulettes not reward Tomestones?
Or would the others reward less to make room for these new sources of Tomestones?

Otherwise, what would the incentive/reward structure be like?

how about an iron man roulette, death is permanent so if the dragoon starts tanking the floor after the first mob they'll continue to tank the floor until the dungeon is complete or everyone is tanking the floor

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Would these new roulettes not reward Tomestones?
Or would the others reward less to make room for these new sources of Tomestones?

Otherwise, what would the incentive/reward structure be like?

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I'd like to see them reward something other than tomestones, personally, but that's just because it's really, really, easy to cap out on tomestones these days. But otherwise I'm all for adding more roulettes like this or other forms of challenge roulette.

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Would these new roulettes not reward Tomestones?
Or would the others reward less to make room for these new sources of Tomestones?

Otherwise, what would the incentive/reward structure be like?

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There should be no issue with giving similar tomestones to the routlette that its similar to. Tomestones are already limited by a weekly cap.

While minilvl would be an interesting roulette, I'd rather they just make ilvl sync more sensible for the older content. It's not fair to call older stuff "easy" because that implies difficulty; too much of it's straight up free right now. Free shouldn't be possible as long as you're synced; that's sync malfunctioning.

It will just make said trials and dungeons unnecessary longer without really increasing difficulty as they are per definition story content, thus tuned to be laughingly easy

Alternative idea.
Since roulette is largely designed to keep older content stocked with players (especially to keep queue times down), how about the following:

1) upon completing the normal easy roulette for the day, you can then do a “hardmode” roulette that is minimum iLVL.
2) you would be encouraged to do this in preformed parties, but not required to.
3) abandoning it for any reason forfeits your hardmode chance for the day.
4) similarly, wiping ends the dungeon for the day.
5) The rewards will be something different entirely; some kind of special currency that can be traded for things, possibly relic related or mount totems.
6) possibly additional tomestones?
-becomes available upon reaching current cap and finishing current MSQ, relocking with each expansion-

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

how about an iron man roulette, death is permanent so if the dragoon starts tanking the floor after the first mob they'll continue to tank the floor until the dungeon is complete or everyone is tanking the floor

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As amusing as this could be it would only lead to everyone screaming at the healer, especially those people failing to read the text about no rezzes.

I would like this.

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Originally Posted by Alestorm

As amusing as this could be it would only lead to everyone screaming at the healer, especially those people failing to read the text about no rezzes.

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*cackles in BLM*

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

how about an iron man roulette, death is permanent so if the dragoon starts tanking the floor after the first mob they'll continue to tank the floor until the dungeon is complete or everyone is tanking the floor

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*gasp* that would never happen!

EDIT: Seriously though, iron man duties would be fun as heck.

Someone in another thread mentioned that enemies just need to be more threatening.

I did Wanderer's Palace for the first time in years the other night, and was very disappointed that the giant Tonberry can no longer one-shot you. The whole fun of that dungeon was pulling as many trash as you could before you and your party became victims of culinary crime.

I've always said I don't want us to have to go back to the days where dungeons were more frustrating than not. But tweaking certain mechanics that will punish you soundly for not paying attention wouldn't be a bad idea, I think.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

how about an iron man roulette, death is permanent so if the dragoon starts tanking the floor after the first mob they'll continue to tank the floor until the dungeon is complete or everyone is tanking the floor

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Idea sounds nice, but I don't think I'm ready to have my neck wrung by a SAM who didn't read the roulette he queued for and proceeded to jump headfirst off a cliff...

I don't know if it's necessary. I see people in 525-530 playing like they were wearing min ilvl everyday.

It already exists and it's called group finder. Throwing 8 random people into a fight they probably didn't learned for in a training group is a crazy idea at best and would lead to just...yeah...nothing really cause even one bad apple would spoil the whole thing especially on min itemlevel without echo.

Newbies would que for it and can't get a clear, veterans could que for it and wouldn't get it done either. And if they que again you get thrown into a different one which especially for newbies would be a overload on information since we can estimate that in 90min you won't get a clear with a completely randomized group on the hardest difficulty the game offers. Better stick to the existing tools and learn specific fights, no need to throw yourself randomly into the meatgrinder, not even if it gives you more than msq roulette.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

While minilvl would be an interesting roulette, I'd rather they just make ilvl sync more sensible for the older content. It's not fair to call older stuff "easy" because that implies difficulty; too much of it's straight up free right now. Free shouldn't be possible as long as you're synced; that's sync malfunctioning.

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Totally agree.

Also, making an entirely separate roulette for this does nothing to help newbies get through MSQ -- perhaps worse, it would take players out of those roulettes.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

Also, making an entirely separate roulette for this does nothing to help newbies get through MSQ -- perhaps worse, it would take players out of those roulettes.

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Ooooh, that's a good point.

Makes me think of "unreal" but for dungeons (which means it may be not a roulette, or at least a unique type of unreal roulette), which could be a fun concept. It would be unfortunate if it kills the hard mode idea as I do think going through a space again at a different vision, as our normal / hard mode works currently, is quite neat. Yet if it can be a fun cost effective, in the sense it doesn't kill other content that is of greater value (imo), then that is cool- also it may perhaps be a good designer play ground to test out skills, for internal skill building / safe place to practice.

I think if you did it for savage like content though it would just be a trap to kill people's time, except for pre-made situations in which case I don't think a roulette is a good solution. Certainly you could add more options for pre-made though, like modifications that make the content harder just because you wanted it. Maybe even complete content at a level synced below the content it was designed for just because because lol.

Particularly the value would be akin to unreal trials where you can do old content but with your current kit, and a bit of that remix of vision. If you had a favorite dungeon, you could see it again, and be happy about the renewed (and perhaps even harder) challenge, without disrupting the main set piece (as if you made old content too hard it could mess up progression / player engagement for those not wanting to 'git gud').

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Originally Posted by ItMe

Would these new roulettes not reward Tomestones?
Or would the others reward less to make room for these new sources of Tomestones?

Otherwise, what would the incentive/reward structure be like?

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Unreal like reward structure maybe? Definitely tomes are nice, but your concern (I assume) is very important if it messes up how people interact with the core structure of the game- which is already working.

It shouldn't be a roulette, as other people have mentioned. Doing random hard content with random people won't work.

But yes, I'd like more Unreal fights. Just extend that system to dungeons and raids, and put them on a more frequent rotation, if possible. But that would take a lot more work from SQEX to re-tune the really old fights. Min-ilvl is a poor approximation of intended difficulty for level 50-60, since expansions have changed so many systems and abilities.

I kinda doubt that will happen though. Most people who want to "experience the content as intended" just do it once and move on. It's not very popular to farm it. I mean, I've been able to do Unreal every week for faux leaves, but it's never more than 2 groups in PF at a time (a learning and a farm party at most), and they get pretty rare by the end the of week.

I think we're better off just using PF for min-ilvl fun runs.
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But I will absolutely advocate for improving the ilvl sync on existing roulettes. They don't need to be "hard", but they shouldn't become braindead after two patches. It's fine if the content get out-geared A LITTLE BIT over time. A bit easier for the casual players, less likely to wipe, less of a pain to farm every day (especially if you get an old one you don't remember well). However, the extent to which gear can trivialize some of these duties is ridiculous.

Raids don't have an ilvl sync, so the first tier (4 raids, 1 alliance raid) of each expansion have absolutely no threat at all (except the ones where you can fall off the arena). "Expert" dungeons are synced but the cap is still too high, especially considering they're tuned for behind-the-curve players. They feel out-geared on the first run, and continue to get easier from there. Somehow leveling dungeons/trials are the only ones with any challenge, because they have the strictest syncing.

We shouldn't skip half the mechanics because DPS is so inflated. Tank busters should do more than 1/3 of the tanks HP. Repeated mistakes should kill you. It shouldn't be possible to reach 8 vuln stacks and live. (Visit the healer sub-forum for more complaints about their job being obsolete in old content.)

I don't want roulettes to be hard, but they shouldn't lose every onze of threat by the end of an expansion because of ilvls.

Personally what I would love to see is an extreme roulette have a roulette of buffs and debuffs coupled with extra bonus for finishing it under a certain time. Make it EXTREME!

I don't really like the idea of adding more restrictions.

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Originally Posted by ryouma17

how about an iron man roulette, death is permanent so if the dragoon starts tanking the floor after the first mob they'll continue to tank the floor until the dungeon is complete or everyone is tanking the floor

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Allow me to introduce you to Delubrum Reginae (Savage)!

(Okay, not quite, but generally if you hit the floor you're going to stay there until near the end of the fight when someone healer LB3's, or until the fight's done and people can stand around throwing stacks of Lost Arise out to see if one of the casts actually works.)

Though with the Rays mechanic introduced with Zadnor, DRS isn't nearly so brutal now as it was at launch.

YES PLEASE

for those who are unaware current dungeons suffer severely from power creep to such a extend most if not all runs can be burned thru entire mech cycles making it impossible to enjoy the whole dungeon and make it a chore as most mechs arent vital and tank busters are sneezes...unless its minilv

ARR on minilv are some of the most fun dungeons ever, while SHB due to the utter lack of unique mechanics and transition mobs being very very dull and unimportant minilv does nothing for it. I cannot stand that roulltes are hampered to such a degree and that if i wanna enjoy a dungeon my way i have to go to PF and wait hours to find 3 ppl that want the same thrill or to experience it in its prime.

counterpoint: Pharos sirus is one of the hardest instances minilv for new commers and is literally as hard as i ever wanna see a dungeon in all honesty, getting it for Roulltte would make aurum vale look like Matoyas relict