I know this is probably too late to change before Endwalker launch but, my suggestion is let divine veil also shield the paladin who casts it. The 3 other tanks have party wide damage mitigation skills which also effect the user and Paladin is the only one who does not. I would like to see paladin gain the effect of divine veil also.
Paladin Divine Veil suggestion.
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11-24-2021, 10:17 AMZumiPaladin Divine Veil suggestion.
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11-25-2021, 12:16 AMTex_Mex
That's not a bad suggestion, but in the big scheme of things, it really doesn't matter. Here's why: The damage that skills like Shake It Off and Divine Veil are meant to help with is raid wide party damage. This type of damage is virtually never a threat to tanks thanks to their high defenses. While your squishy BLM might get 95% of their health removed, the tank will usually get hit for less than 1/3 of their health. Adding the shield to the PLD doesn't hurt anything, but it also really doesn't add much.
Personally, I would like to see the healing requirement of the skill removed. The fact that PLD has to either heal themselves or wait for a healer to actually proc the shield is kind of dumb. They are adding more self healing to PLD that will help us to proc it better in Endwalker, but it just seems unnecessarily clunky. -
11-25-2021, 11:55 PMAcidbloodHas it been confirmed that the healing from Holy Spirit etc. will actually proc Divine Veil?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Mex
Honestly though the healing requirement should just be removed... when DV was the only Tank raid wide shield it made some sort of sense, but with Shake It Off being as good or better in practically every way (technically DV can last longer :/ ) there is really no reason for DV to continue to be so clunky to use.
Alternatively the shielding (or come EW healing potency) could be based on the heal used to proc it.. but that could get messy. -
11-26-2021, 02:05 AMReinhardt_AzureheimTo be fair, I have used Missionary, Heart of Light and Shake in a way that I receive more benefit out of it if it also aligns with raidwides or is overkill on raidwides, so delegating Veil as "use only on raidwide and ONLY raidwide" is a bit restricting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Mex
Specifically because PLD doesnt care about raid wides it would be cool if PLD gets to have a selfshield for autos or busters before a raidwide, considering how long it lasts. -
11-26-2021, 05:17 AMUndeadfire
There are some great advantages with Veil despite healing requirement.
This ability can be exploited allowing more Veils than Shake/Missionary/HoL. Currently a Healer is always going to pop a barrier for hardcore raid wides to push higher uptimes, the basic raid wides aren't solely needed unless we're talking E12S raid wide level and Veil carrying over multitude of times a pack more than the other tank is a massive advantage. Veil last 30 seconds, then another 30 seconds. -
11-26-2021, 06:01 AMReinhardt_AzureheimWhile it is true, it isn't as grand as it sounds. Realistically, you will enter no fight with less than 12 seconds on Divine Veil's active shield, as any relevant raid damage if it comes early also tends to have a cast time. so at most, you can shave off a total of 48 seconds until the next use of Divine Veil. However, your cooldown will be your limiting factor from that point onward, so you will never gain more than one full use of Divine Veil over equivalent cooldowns from the other tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undeadfire
What you can do is pool up secutive Divine Veil shields close to each other, however this also means that up to 29s, no AOE damage can come to pass that would cause a Healer to use a GCD heal to proc it and after that, the next hit needs to be delayed to fit the bill for extending the pooling to the maximum... and you also cannot run a Scholar, for their Faerie will likely cast Embrace on you, having your plan ruined by AI.
That and in a world where you have THIS AT MINIMUM without counting Job-specific additionals in basically every raid comp, especially Endwalker onwards:
- 2x Reprisal + 2x 90s CD group defense buff from Tanks
- 2x % AOE mitigation (buffs) from Healers
- 4x a combination of:
---> Feint debuff (10% physical down, 5% magical down) from Melee DPS
---> Addle debuff (10% magical down, 5% physical down) from Caster DPS
---> 90s CD group defense from Ranged DPS
...how much will one extra cast of Divine Veil matter over having a well timed Divine Veil? -
11-26-2021, 06:22 AMUndeadfireNot likely, Paladin is never main tanking including switching when possible and Healers always responds OGCD to keep cooldowns rolling. EW? If Sch becomes meta, and it's currently meme'd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
When it comes to optimising, having extras always matters pushing DPS. Interventions burned on auto attacks, Covers abused, TBN DPS, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim
Many Savage fights prove good examples carrying Veil across the fight then trigger, exploited set time sets it up to be active and ready the next big hit. This is what makes Paladin powerful in high tier, Missionary/HoL are in a forced area forcing Healers use of their tools and Veil is exploited pop early, stalled trigger and ready for next gungho raid wide.
Edit: This isn't directly on topic. Veil in Warrior of Light Extreme can soak a hit on Pyro debuff pushing an extra GCD in for dps. Veil is a very powerful tool optimised. -
11-27-2021, 11:41 AMHammerhorn
I’ve been hoping DV would also apply to the PLD since it came out seems just wrong not to get any benefit from the skill, Shake feels a lot better.
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11-29-2021, 07:25 PMJandor
I'd like DV to apply to PLD, and then if you press it again it drops from PLD and spreads to the party.
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11-30-2021, 05:01 AMHammerhornI really like that idea that way we have a choice to use it for ourselves or to help the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
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11-30-2021, 05:19 AMTex_MexThis is a super interesting idea. PLD is already lacking a personal mitigation tool compared to other tanks, and while this would not be much, it would still be helpful. I really like the idea of trading it off of yourself in order to give it to others as well. The only clunky issue I could see with it is that if you are main tanking, you have to be really careful about your timing. If you use it, and then lose most of the shield to an auto attack prior to giving it to your teammates, it would feel bad. But, then again, I can't remember the last time a PLD was a main tank ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandor
Maybe a fun way to fix that clunkiness would be this:
Divine Veil: When you activate this ability, you gain the Divine Strength effect:
Divine Strength: You gain a 10% Damage Reduction for 10 seconds.
If you activate the ability again, the Divine Strength effect is consumed in order to grant all party members within 15 yalms the Divine Shield effect:
Divine Shield: You gain a barrier equivalent to 10% of your maximum health. This barrier lasts for 20 seconds.
This would give PLD another personal mitigation tool that is arguably weaker than all of the other tank's 3rd Personal Mitigation Tools, while still maintaining the spirit of Divine Veil. (Dark Mind, Thrill of Battle, and Camouflage are all arguably stronger than the personal mitigation PLD would gain from the ability I gave above.) -
11-30-2021, 01:36 PMHammerhorn
Since Endwalker has not launched yet maybe they have made it better and we just don’t know yet /crosses fingers.
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12-01-2021, 01:36 AMUndeadfire
Doubt it, the process making changes to jobs takes a lot of time, without breaking the balancing. Buffing, Nerfing, Reworking, is a dangerous game to play.
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12-07-2021, 01:00 PMAbomination713
I don't mind that it doesn't shield us when we use it. What I do mind is that stupid heal requirment to proc it. Why? It makes no sense why we are the only tank to have this weird gate on us. People keep making excuses that we can just use Clemency to proc it, but we shouldn't have to to that! I've seen people defend this heal gate so hard they literally told me I should know the fights in and out and know EXACTLY when the healer is healing before a big room wide attack. It's crazy!
Yes, Holy Spirit/Circle can proc it now as well (but not Sheltron), but we aren't always in our MP attack phase when we pop it. I am casting it for a very specific reason and I get no benefit out of using it so why stop us from casting it when we want/need to?! It now has a small healing ability on it and now we are healing to heal others. It's getting dumb now and I'm not sure how the devs have been fine with this being there since SB launch. REMOVE IT! -
12-07-2021, 02:01 PMLyth
They should just reduce the recast on Passage of Arms and get rid of Divine Veil.